Are modern MT/MMA gyms over commercialised?

Hatake88

Blue Belt
@Blue
Joined
Jun 9, 2011
Messages
618
Reaction score
106
Hi guys

I've been noticing a problem in modern MT/MMA gyms and would like some input as to whether you agree/disagree with my observations.

Recently, I've have had to moved gyms due to work. To allow myself to make an informed choice, I did trial classes at a fair few gyms to see which would be the best fit. To my surprise, despite the fact the different trial classes took place at different gyms, the coaches' approach was almost always the same - a typical class will start with a warm up, the coaches will then show 2-3 combos, there will be a warm down (sit ups, push ups) and...that's it. There wasn't any timing exercises, any footwork drills and the combo sequences were often long (think 4+ punches) with very little attention to detail. For example, a coach will go through a combo by only demonstrating the punches on the pads two or three times. The coaches wouldn't explain what the role of each punch is (that e.g. the jab's role is to help establish distance/sets up heavier punches). The coaches wouldn't talk strategy either (e.g. to first jab high to get the hands up then follow it up with a punch to the body). To obtain a higher "graded" t-shirt/armband (even if the striking arts never traditionally *had* any kind of grading system), students only need to demonstrate set combos. This method of teaching to me is ludicrous.

Now, to make matters even worse, sparring at the gyms I've went to has even become optional. If it wasn't, even with the patchy instruction, students can (to a degree) fine tune their footwork/timing/technique as their mistakes will be highlighted when they get caught with their partners' strikes. However, at every single gym I went to, there was a seperate sparring class if you wanted to spar and, at some of those gyms, you could only spar after you have attended a 'learn to spar class' (and paid extra $$$ to attend the class). Sparring in these sparring classes will also always be light in nature.

For a long time, a portion of the combat sport community has made fun of traditional martial art (e.g. TKD/karate) precisely because TMA students seemed to struggle with applying their art in real-life, real-time scenarios. My question is whether MT/MMA gyms are slowly becoming the schools their students once laughed at? I wouldn't have a problem if it was only one MMA/MT gym that was doing this (as that gym will clearly be a mcdojo) - I wouldn't even have a problem if the class clearly said 'MT Fitness' or the gym clearly advertised themselves as a boxercise type of school. Yet the gyms I've been to (think 5-6) all advertise themselves as fight orientated and the coaches themselves are well qualified. The fighters/advanced students at these gyms seem to be putting in decent work and getting decent training...but when has basic footwork/timing/strategy been reserved for only the experienced pupils? My question is: is your gym like this/do you know of any gyms like this/do you think this is slowly becoming a trend, and do you agree with this being a major problem?
 
Hi guys

I've been noticing a problem in modern MT/MMA gyms and would like some input as to whether you agree/disagree with my observations.

Recently, I've have had to moved gyms due to work. To allow myself to make an informed choice, I did trial classes at a fair few gyms to see which would be the best fit. To my surprise, despite the fact the different trial classes took place at different gyms, the coaches' approach was almost always the same - a typical class will start with a warm up, the coaches will then show 2-3 combos, there will be a warm down (sit ups, push ups) and...that's it. There wasn't any timing exercises, any footwork drills and the combo sequences were often long (think 4+ punches) with very little attention to detail. For example, a coach will go through a combo by only demonstrating the punches on the pads two or three times. The coaches wouldn't explain what the role of each punch is (that e.g. the jab's role is to help establish distance/sets up heavier punches). The coaches wouldn't talk strategy either (e.g. to first jab high to get the hands up then follow it up with a punch to the body). To obtain a higher "graded" t-shirt/armband (even if the striking arts never traditionally *had* any kind of grading system), students only need to demonstrate set combos. This method of teaching to me is ludicrous.

Now, to make matters even worse, sparring at the gyms I've went to has even become optional. If it wasn't, even with the patchy instruction, students can (to a degree) fine tune their footwork/timing/technique as their mistakes will be highlighted when they get caught with their partners' strikes. However, at every single gym I went to, there was a seperate sparring class if you wanted to spar and, at some of those gyms, you could only spar after you have attended a 'learn to spar class' (and paid extra $$$ to attend the class). Sparring in these sparring classes will also always be light in nature.

For a long time, a portion of the combat sport community has made fun of traditional martial art (e.g. TKD/karate) precisely because TMA students seemed to struggle with applying their art in real-life, real-time scenarios. My question is whether MT/MMA gyms are slowly becoming the schools their students once laughed at? I wouldn't have a problem if it was only one MMA/MT gym that was doing this (as that gym will clearly be a mcdojo) - I wouldn't even have a problem if the class clearly said 'MT Fitness' or the gym clearly advertised themselves as a boxercise type of school. Yet the gyms I've been to (think 5-6) all advertise themselves as fight orientated and the coaches themselves are well qualified. The fighters/advanced students are these gyms seem to be putting in decent work...but when has basic footwork/timing/strategy been reserved for only the experienced pupils? My question is: is your gym like this/do you know of any gyms like this/do you think this is slowly becoming a trend, and do you agree with this being a major problem?

Yeah, its a business at the end of the day and it dilutes the original mission statement. There's a compromise, do you want to do everything that you dream of doing? Or do you want to have a stable income? And sadly due to the nature of the field, the latter takes precedence.

This is an industry is one where you aspire to do what you want to do (build fighters, competitors), but those business models end in bankruptcy within a short amount of time.
  • Charge too expensive and no members, since gym down the street charges $25 less
  • Other gyms offer pros no yearly tuition fee, shit, if I don't do that, my pros are gonna bounce

So you can kinda see how old schooling doesn't do well. Also, if the gym is brand brand new. The rates are gonna be expensive just to keep it afloat. Commercial space rentals for the size usually run $5 - 10k -- A MONTH. You have only 10 students, how will it keep you from being in a deficit. Gotta overcharge then.
Its also a reason coaches do what they can to be popular at a gym they work at, then bounce grabbing as much students to keep the new business afloat.

As for the trial, a first impression is the best impression, this is with any business. My problem was when I would cover classes to teach, I'd teach what works, an hour class, and basically it ended up being 20min of stance, footwork, movement -> shadow box. Then how jab, and that kinda goes on until the 45min mark. Then I get them on pads and its done.

Course they never come back because thats boring as shit to them, they wanna come in and do 1,2,slip,6,flying knee, spinning elbow. The problem was they'd never come back, and the gym looses potential students.

In light of this, the model ends up being: give them a good workout, and let them "feel" they know something more than the average joe to let them think they can kick ass, even though there's no power, speed, timing, weight distribution, or even knows the nature of how aggression and fighting works whatsoever with them. Let them think that so they decide to come back and pay full tuition.

The sparring thing is pretty normal, I'm not too against it. Because really you can just call up your teammate or other similar exp'd students and spar whenever. Space isn't a problem most of the time so classes can run, while you do open training / sparring on the other side of the mats.

Our case with the "test" it serves 2 purposes:

1) make sure the student has the right techniques, proper stance, position (grappling) so they won't get injured.

I thought this was overkill at first, but we had a guy who's an exp'd grappler, but a fish in striking, decides he wants to spar. I said no, because he can't even stand properly. It falls on deaf ears, whatever, we're both adults I don't own him. He gets lightly leg kicked, and it sweeps him because he has no stance. He's standing borderline tightroped. He gets punched, he turns away and as he's semi-running, he's eating strikes to the back of the head; Its not the partner's fault, she threw a cross, he turned away and took it to the back.

2) Make sure you know how to "play well with others".

Wannabe toughguy joins, and a week later injures people in sparring. If it happens more than once, they're not gonna come back, or they'll return the favor vindictively. Sparring is really just practicing your techniques, combos, tactics in a live environment. Either way, even though you deal with it like a "man", its still a problem that occurred, took time and energy out of people's hands.

Now charging for these "tests" are scammish imo.

Sparring level is normally 30-50% power, unless you're at a rough gym that's Chute box like in nature. Personally I don't think thats good, getting concussed in training repeatedly does no one any good, your chin's ultimately got an expiry date, so use it in the fights instead of the practice room.
But there's the business side to it too, go too hard, and it deters students. Say a student pays $1500 a year, but chopped up on a quarterly basis; Finally in month 4, is allowed to spar. But gym warrior goes all out to vent because he's pissed that his wife is riding the carousel and his boss is ripping him off, so new sparring student feels scared and intimidated. After 4 sessions of dealing with this, gives it up and bounces. There goes the $1125 you were expecting.

There's also "MMA gyms" that aren't really MMA gyms, more like multiple marital arts gyms since they don't have MMA classes which blend the two, and thats key because there are huge holes in each individual styles that have to be applied to MMA, and not having it is a huge loss which will screw the competitor in their event.

Overall, I feel this business model is more frequent in a large bustling city where its a full-time job, compared to a smaller rural community, its not gonna be like that. Really at the end of the day, its the fitness industry, its not a natural money making machine. The ones that get big are there because of marketing, event management, videography, etc. and thats not exclusive to any industry.
 
Last edited:
Yes. Modern boxings gyms are dumbed down as well, unless you go pro. There isn't time to instruct each and everyone personally, so you follow allong best you can.
 
Hi guys

I've been noticing a problem in modern MT/MMA gyms and would like some input as to whether you agree/disagree with my observations.

Recently, I've have had to moved gyms due to work. To allow myself to make an informed choice, I did trial classes at a fair few gyms to see which would be the best fit. To my surprise, despite the fact the different trial classes took place at different gyms, the coaches' approach was almost always the same - a typical class will start with a warm up, the coaches will then show 2-3 combos, there will be a warm down (sit ups, push ups) and...that's it. There wasn't any timing exercises, any footwork drills and the combo sequences were often long (think 4+ punches) with very little attention to detail. For example, a coach will go through a combo by only demonstrating the punches on the pads two or three times. The coaches wouldn't explain what the role of each punch is (that e.g. the jab's role is to help establish distance/sets up heavier punches). The coaches wouldn't talk strategy either (e.g. to first jab high to get the hands up then follow it up with a punch to the body). To obtain a higher "graded" t-shirt/armband (even if the striking arts never traditionally *had* any kind of grading system), students only need to demonstrate set combos. This method of teaching to me is ludicrous.

Now, to make matters even worse, sparring at the gyms I've went to has even become optional. If it wasn't, even with the patchy instruction, students can (to a degree) fine tune their footwork/timing/technique as their mistakes will be highlighted when they get caught with their partners' strikes. However, at every single gym I went to, there was a seperate sparring class if you wanted to spar and, at some of those gyms, you could only spar after you have attended a 'learn to spar class' (and paid extra $$$ to attend the class). Sparring in these sparring classes will also always be light in nature.

For a long time, a portion of the combat sport community has made fun of traditional martial art (e.g. TKD/karate) precisely because TMA students seemed to struggle with applying their art in real-life, real-time scenarios. My question is whether MT/MMA gyms are slowly becoming the schools their students once laughed at? I wouldn't have a problem if it was only one MMA/MT gym that was doing this (as that gym will clearly be a mcdojo) - I wouldn't even have a problem if the class clearly said 'MT Fitness' or the gym clearly advertised themselves as a boxercise type of school. Yet the gyms I've been to (think 5-6) all advertise themselves as fight orientated and the coaches themselves are well qualified. The fighters/advanced students at these gyms seem to be putting in decent work and getting decent training...but when has basic footwork/timing/strategy been reserved for only the experienced pupils? My question is: is your gym like this/do you know of any gyms like this/do you think this is slowly becoming a trend, and do you agree with this being a major problem?
It is a problem. It always has been, and always will be. You have the right idea though. Make sure the school incorporates sparring heavily in the curriculum. Doesn't even have to be every day, but if it costs extra money or you have to "earn" it. It almost always isn't worth paying for. There are always exceptions, but I dont think its worth the effort to try and weed out the exceptions. Don't worry about if its muay thai or mma though you could find the best training at some place that says they teach TKD. Which sounds ridiculous to me. But it could happen. Good luck man.
 
Sounds normal. There gotta be a separation between recreational/beginner, competitive/advanced, light/hard sparring classes to tailor to different customers.
 
Back
Top