Arab-Israeli Conflict: Part 1

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So, Arabs picked a fight with Jews, repeatedly and got their asses kicked multiple times...

In before Hollywood Nicky freaks out.
 
You could have saved a lot of space in this thread and listed all the actions coming from the Arab world that weren't 'blunders'.
 
Good article.

Israel is not going anywhere.

They believe the world is against them and there is some truth to that.

Israel will not allow themselves to "be driven into the sea" they will turn the area into glass before that happens and as crazy as that sounds I understand why.

As I understand that in a two state solution Israel would still have to support the Palestinian state with water and jobs and such which benefits Israel how?

What happens if Israel agrees to the two state solution and with the agreement that all Muslims must move out they close the borders.

All in all I'm not seeing what's in this for Israel, but maybe I'm missing something.
 
Good article.

Israel is not going anywhere.

They believe the world is against them and there is some truth to that.

Israel will not allow themselves to "be driven into the sea" they will turn the area into glass before that happens and as crazy as that sounds I understand why.

As I understand that in a two state solution Israel would still have to support the Palestinian state with water and jobs and such which benefits Israel how?

What happens if Israel agrees to the two state solution and with the agreement that all Muslims must move out they close the borders.

All in all I'm not seeing what's in this for Israel, but maybe I'm missing something.

A two state solution allows for something that resembles peace in the region. It may change living conditions for Palestinians enough to stem the tide of young men willing walk into Israel and go on stabbing sprees or families to house weapons caches. It could open trade with the region and strengthen the Israeli economy.
 
A two state solution allows for something that resembles peace in the region. It may change living conditions for Palestinians enough to stem the tide of young men willing walk into Israel and go on stabbing sprees or families to house weapons caches. It could open trade with the region and strengthen the Israeli economy.

Maybe but that's saying that these same young men (and women) will stop and not want Israel out anyway. And I don't believe even with two states this will stop as long as there is an Israel.

I think Israel sees this also.
 
What an amazingly honest and self-aware article! The context This guy provides is exactly why I've always cut Israel significant slack in their approach to the Palestinians and national security. Maybe other people will start paying attention.
 
Maybe but that's saying that these same young men (and women) will stop and not want Israel out anyway. And I don't believe even with two states this will stop as long as there is an Israel.

I think Israel sees this also.

I would like to see it tried. If they can make economic in roads the governments may try and place nice with each other. If they play nice they will have incentive to keep the populace in check.

If it fails Israel can just steam role the Palestinians and Arabs again. Take more land force concessions that make the region accept the Palestinians as refugees and end the bullshit for good.
 
Good article.

Israel is not going anywhere.

They believe the world is against them and there is some truth to that.

Israel will not allow themselves to "be driven into the sea" they will turn the area into glass before that happens and as crazy as that sounds I understand why.

As I understand that in a two state solution Israel would still have to support the Palestinian state with water and jobs and such which benefits Israel how?

What happens if Israel agrees to the two state solution and with the agreement that all Muslims must move out they close the borders.

All in all I'm not seeing what's in this for Israel, but maybe I'm missing something.

They get to ensure that they dont fall into the same trap of South Africa.
 
Palestinians are used as a political football by muslim countries in their campaign against Israel. The reality is they don't give a shit about their plight.

It's not a coincident that Syria kept insisting on getting the Golan Height as a precondition in any potential Israeli-Palestinian treaty.
 
It's not a coincident that Syria kept insisting on getting the Golan Height as a precondition in any potential Israeli-Palestinian treaty.

Israel will never give that tract of land up without a bloody, bloody fight.
 
Wary Saudis silent as Trump's Israel position takes shape
By Bruce Riedel

RTX2SSC2-570.jpg

In December 1967, Saudi King Faisal bin Abdul-Aziz Al Saud added a new responsibility to his younger brother Prince Salman's duties as the governor of Riyadh: raise funds to support Palestinians resisting the Israeli takeover of Jerusalem. The funding was part of a broader change in Saudi foreign policy 50 years ago that put the kingdom on a collision course with the United States. Changes in American policy toward Jerusalem could do it again.

The 31-year-old prince took up his new mission with zeal and found an enthusiastic audience among Saudis — royals and the general public — eager to support the Palestinian resistance after the humiliation of the 1967 war. The Popular Committee for Aiding Martyrs, Families and Mujahedeen in Palestine raised tens of millions in the kingdom and is still at work today.

It was a milestone for Salman. He was so good at the fundraising mission that 12 years later, when the Soviet Union invaded Afghanistan in December 1979, Faisal's successor King Khalid bin Abdul-Aziz Al Saud gave Salman the task of raising money for the mujahedeen to fight the Soviets. In the first years of the Afghan war, Salman raised more money from the Saudi public for the mujahedeen's cause than the CIA provided them each year. Later, King Fahd bin Abdul-Aziz Al Saud gave Salman the same task in Bosnia.

Before 1967, Faisal's foreign policy priority had been to thwart Egyptian leader Gamal Abdel Nasser's quest to unite the Arab world behind his own brand of revolutionary Arab nationalism. Egypt was an existential threat to the monarchy. Faisal worked to bog Egypt down in a quagmire in Yemen by backing a royalist Zaydi insurgency against the Egyptian and Soviet-backed republican government in Sanaa. Nasser's June 1967 defeat in the Sinai Peninsula was due in large part to the Yemen war, as the best of his army was suffering in Yemen instead of fighting the Israelis.

Faisal even collaborated secretly with Israel in Yemen through British coordination. Mossad helped the royalist insurgents by flying supply missions down the Red Sea to drop weapons at their bases along the Saudi border. Jordan also provided aid in the form of experts and trainers for the Zaydi rebels.

The June war and the loss of Jerusalem changed everything for Faisal. He had invested heavily in the refurbishment of Al-Aqsa Mosque before the war. His favorite engineering company, the Saudi Binladin Group, had done the work, and a young Osama bin Laden visited the construction site. Faisal portrayed himself as the leader of an Islamic community that rose above national identity. He was the defender of Islam and the custodian of its holy cities.

Egypt and Saudi Arabia reconciled in 1967. The Saudis became the principal sponsors of the idea that the Palestinians should have their own independent state. They backed UN resolutions supporting the Palestinians and labeling Zionism a form of racism. In 1973, when Egypt and Syria went to war again against Israel, Faisal imposed the oil embargo on the United States, dealing the US economy its worst blow engineered by a foreign state.

Now the US president-elect's choice to be the next American ambassador to Israel, David Friedman, has promised to move the US Embassy to Jerusalem from Tel Aviv as a symbol that the United States considers Jerusalem the eternal and undivided capital of Israel. Eight American presidents refused to take this step and kept the embassy in Tel Aviv to avoid prejudicing the outcome of negotiations on the future of Jerusalem between the warring parties. It will be a major shake-up in American policy if the new administration follows through on the plan.

A year ago, when tensions flared in Jerusalem, King Salman bin Abdul-Aziz Al Saud contacted President Barack Obama to ask for US pressure on Israel to calm the situation. The king called all the major powers to protect the rights of Arab Jerusalem from the “Israeli attacks” that were encouraging extremists throughout the region.

The Saudi reaction to Friedman's appointment has thus far been quiet. The news was reported there with little comment, suggesting Salman is waiting to see what comes next and will give the incoming team time to carefully consider its decision on Jerusalem. After all, it would not be the first time an incoming president has reversed a promise to move the embassy after taking office. The Saudis probably expect that the president-elect's nominees for secretary of state and secretary of defense may have a different view. Rex Tillerson and James Mattis, respectively, are likely to understand the regional implications of changing American policy toward Jerusalem and what the move could cost American interests in this most volatile part of the world.

The Saudis already have another major concern with the policies of the incoming administration. The Justice Against Sponsors of Terrorism Act that Congress passed this fall over Obama's veto allows litigation against Saudi officials for alleged involvement in the al-Qaeda attacks of Sept. 11, 2001. The Saudis thought that issue had been settled years ago by the 9/11 Commission, which concluded that there was no credible evidence of Saudi government involvement. Riyadh wants the bill amended to grant the Saudis sovereign immunity. That development looks increasingly unlikely, as the incoming team is not pressing for a change.

The kingdom has a full plate. Low oil prices have hurt the economy and raised unemployment. The king's war in Yemen is an expensive quagmire, just like Nasser's. Iran is today's existential threat, and its proxies are on the march in Syria and Iraq. Tehran will hail an American shift in Jerusalem as validation of its decades of labeling Washington Israel's protector. If Salman is soft on Jerusalem, the Iranians will have a field day denouncing the king as a puppet of Zionism.

Jordan's King Abdullah will be in an even hotter seat than Salman. He has his own claim to Jerusalem and a majority Palestinian population. Just a few days ago, the Jordanian monarch presided over a formal reinterment of the remains of Jordanian soldiers killed defending Jerusalem in 1967 in a martyr's memorial in Amman. The king badly needs American help to cope with the Syrian crisis, but he can't ignore what happens to Jerusalem.

The Arab world is in the midst of an unprecedented tsunami of chaos, terrorism, sectarian violence and civil war. Al-Qaedism is rampant even if the Islamic State is contracting. All the causes of the Arab Spring are still unaddressed. It is not the time to pour oil on the fire.

http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/ori...shington-trepidation-trump.html#ixzz4Ty8eJN7Z
 
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Israel curbs working ties with nations that voted for UN resolution
By Elise Labott, Oren Liebermann and Theodore Schleifer, CNN
December 27, 2016



Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has ordered his nation's Foreign Ministry to temporarily limit all working ties with the embassies of the 12 UN Security Council members who voted in favor of Friday's resolution on West Bank settlements and who have diplomatic relations with Israel, two senior Israeli officials tell CNN.

The officials said that business with the embassies of those countries -- Britain, France, Russia, China, Japan, Ukraine, Angola, Egypt, Uruguay, Spain, Senegal and New Zealand -- will be suspended, the officials said.

Netanyahu will not meet with the foreign ministers of those countries and their ambassadors will not be received at Israel's Foreign Ministry, the officials added.

In addition, travel by Israeli ministers to those countries will also be limited, the officials said, noting that Israeli ambassadors in the countries will still be able to continue working with the governments of their host nations.

The move came after ten ambassadors were summoned, under orders by Netanyahu, to the Foreign Ministry for a personal rebuke over the vote. Israel was furious at the passage of Security Council resolution 2334, which says its settlements in the West Bank "had no legal validity, constituting a flagrant violation under international law and a major obstacle to the vision of two States living side-by-side in peace and security." The United States, a Security Council member, abstained on the resolution.

More than anything else, the diplomatic move to suspend embassy ties is a statement meant to express Netanyahu's anger at the countries that voted for the resolution. It is unlikely to have any practical effect on either Israel or the other countries, as it does not affect trade, security coordination, or other aspects of the relations.

But as a statement, it is significant, and it is a continuation of Netanyahu's diplomatic actions against countries that voted for the resolution.

Notably, it does not affect diplomatic relations with the United States, which has been the focus of much of Netanyahu's anger. Netanyahu summoned the US ambassador and launched a scathing attack Sunday on the Obama administration.

Late Monday afternoon Israel's ambassador to the US, Ron Dermer, explained his country's diplomatic moves to CNN's Jake Tapper on "The Lead."

"Israel's not going to be kicked in the teeth and not just respond to this," Dermer said. "We can't just meet with visiting dignitaries as if nothing has happened. This is a serious effort against Israel."

Dermer said Friday's UN Security Council vote harmed long-term prospects for a two-state solution between Israel and the Palestinians.

"The one negotiating chip that we have at the peace table is that territory. If the UN Security Council says that territory actually belongs to the Palestinians -- which it does not and which we reject -- that's going to make achieving peace actually much harder."


http://www.cnn.com/2016/12/26/politics/israel-benjamin-netanyahu-diplomatic-ties/
 
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http://www.businessinsider.com/israel-suspends-ties-with-12-un-security-council-nations-2016-12

Israel's Foreign Ministry has reportedly suspended all working ties with 12 of the UN Security Council countries that voted to pass a resolution urging Israel to halt building settlements on occupied Palestinian land.

The move came at Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's request, one day after he summoned 10 of the nations' ambassadors to Jerusalem to personally reprimand them for the vote.
Foreign ministers and ambassadors from Britain, France, Russia, China, Japan, Ukraine, Angola, Egypt, Uruguay, Spain, Senegal and New Zealand will not be received at Israel's Foreign Ministry amid the suspension, the Times of Israel reported. They will also not be granted an audience with Netanyahu.
"Over decades American administrations and Israeli governments disagreed about settlements, but we agreed that the security council was not the place to resolve this issue," Netanyahu said during his weekly cabinet meeting on Sunday.

"We knew that going there would make negotiations harder and drive peace farther away. As I told John Kerry on Thursday, 'Friends don't take friends to the Security Council.'"

http://www.timesofisrael.com/netanyahu-said-to-curtial-working-ties-with-security-council-nations/

Senegal and New Zealand do not have embassies in Israel. Venezuela and Malaysia do not have diplomatic relations with Israel and so are not affected by Israel’s diplomatic response to the vote.

However, the official noted that the suspension doesn’t apply to Israeli ambassadors in the 12 countries, who will be permitted to continue working with the governments of their host nations.

Netanyahu also reiterated his vow to curtail funding to various UN agencies and to take “additional” measures to punish states that supported the resolution

Shit is hitting the fan. Israel is taking a very aggressive posture, hope Trump can calm things down but not much he can do after the fact.
 
"Over decades American administrations and Israeli governments disagreed about settlements, but we agreed that the security council was not the place to resolve this issue," Netanyahu said during his weekly cabinet meeting on Sunday.

Fuck 'em.
 
"im not wrong, its all of you that are wrong"

please cut ties trump
 
I may stand alone with Israel but so be it. I see their side of the coin clear as day.
 
Wrong action but it really doesn't mean much at all it is all hot air. The Israelis will continue to build their relationship with the Russians and Chinese and Eastern world, everything I have seen so far points to them increasing ties and diversifying away from the EU. For instance in 2017, the Israelis are likely to sign a trade-pact with the Eurasian Economic Union, and further increase ties with moderate Muslim states like Kazakhstan.

I'd argue this action isn't intended to do anything other than rile up the pro-Israel factions in these respective countries.
 
I may stand alone with Israel but so be it. I see their side of the coin clear as day.

It really is. But many nations go along with this vote because they do not want to antagonize the Muslim world. @Rod1 is right than the Muslim world is very powerful, sizable, and influential they are like 25% of the world population and a majority in over 30 nations with a huge influence on global GDP.

What Israel needs is for the incoming U.S. administration, to let Israel annex much of the West Bank and push Palestinians into a U.S. led backed and created Palestinian state that is contiguous and borders Jordan (or is ideally in Jordan). The world won't do anything if the U.S. shows strong leadership and their is a big chance that the U.S. could influence its 'puppet' states to go along with the vote. Maybe even get key allies like the UK and Canada to follow through.

Lets see what Trump has in mind. Hopefully he goes this route and helps put an end to this conflict.


Lets be clear that the world is facing more dangerous and true evil and that Israel (with U.S. assistance and permission) moving Palestinians to a new state isn't the end of the world nor evil. With radical Islam, and empowered Pakistani, Iranian, North Korea, and China the world is becoming very dangerous. This isn't even mentioning the dangers of climate change, and the exploding population of African nations and the threat they posse to the western world with their desire to immigrate in masses and expand their clout of influence over the world.
 
Lets be clear that the world is facing more dangerous and true evil and that Israel (with U.S. assistance and permission) moving Palestinians to a new state isn't the end of the world nor evil. With radical Islam, and empowered Pakistani, Iranian, North Korea, and China the world is becoming very dangerous. This isn't even mentioning the dangers of climate change, and the exploding population of African nations and the threat they posse to the western world with their desire to immigrate in masses and expand their clout of influence over the world.

but it could be the straw that breaks the camel's back with radical islam being inflamed and empowered
 
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