Apparently, experience does matter

Discussion in 'UFC Discussion' started by fzoid4454, Jan 21, 2018.

  1. fzoid4454

    fzoid4454 Purple Belt

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    The two championship fights were very similar as object lessons. In both cases you had younger, newer fighters who were easily smashing their way to a title fight against experienced, technically sound champions.

    Both fights were great unknowns because the challengers came in having dispatched all their previous competition in somewhat dominating fashion.

    Ngannou was so strong and athletic that he was blasting everyone out. Oezdemir was able to physically overpower pretty much everyone he fought, as well.

    The question was would they be able to physically overmatch the champs? If not, how would they be able to adjust to that, having never really been tested like that before? Having to learn that, for the first time in a championship fight is probably not where you want to get those kinks worked out.

    Oezdemir was able to stop Corimer's takedown attempts with that strength, early on, but he was calling on that strength to fend off Corimer, not to take the fight to him. You could see on his face, between rounds, that he was a bit shocked by the fact that he couldn't bully Corimer. Since he was using his strength to respond, not dictate, Corimer was able to put together punches while he was in, trying to get a hold for the takedown. And, eventually, he did. Corimer had a comprehensive strategy putting together many aspects of his overall game, and won easily.

    Ngannou came out and was clearly overwhelmed by the moment. He was loading up and swinging for the fences, telegraphing those shots to the point where Stipe was making him miss by huge margins, or he was able to easily slip and return fire. What worked for Ngannou was when he was just reacting, with the counter inside uppercuts. A fighter who had been tested would have quickly adjusted and would have moved into more of a counter-punching mode, as well as putting together punches that were quicker and not loaded up on. With his natural power and athleticism, he doesn't have to hit someone full force to mess them up, and someone, anyone getting hit with a fast second or third punch of a combination of his at 70% would be in a world of trouble.

    But he kept swinging for the fences, the whole round. It was clear that he adrenaline dumped and it hit him between the first and second rounds, in addition to wasting so much energy swinging so wildly. When he stood up, for the second, you knew the fight was over for him. If it were not for being physically attached at the shoulder joints, his arms would have dropped to the floor of the Octagon.

    Stipe, in addition to easily avoiding the over-loaded hay-makers fought smart. Even when he couldn't do much with a takedown, he'd make sure to grind down, hard, and make Ngannou's already spent arms have to work that much harder carrying that additional weight. He never moved into full mount, where Ngannou could use his hips and whole body to potentially shuck the champ off. Stipe stuck, mostly, to side mount and top-side mount, where Ngannou would have to use his arms and upper body to bear that weight, again.

    This doesn't mean that the challengers were frauds, but they were certainly victims of their own success. They won so easily on the way up, they never had the experience of being truly tested, and that inexperienced showed on the big stage. Now we'll see if getting that experience makes them much better fighters, or if they are physical freaks, but not truly elite fighters.
     
  2. blewgums

    blewgums Vintage Buick Racing Bastard

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    You heard it here first.
     
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  3. Hespectfully

    Hespectfully United States Space Force

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    Fuck that was long.

    Read about 1/3 of it before I bailed.
     
  4. PlayboyMixx

    PlayboyMixx Blue Belt

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    Of course experience matters, but so does making fights in increasingly thin divisions. LHW and HW are divisions that are so thin and shallow, the UFC has to scramble to hurry and make title fights with guys who get on hot streaks. It would have been more beneficial for Volkan, Ngannou and even the UFC to give those guys more time to develop into top notch fighters. If those divisions were stacked, the UFC wouldn't have to hurry prospects that are still too green for a title fight.
     
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  5. Kadafi

    Kadafi ™️️

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    Spoken like a true virgin
     
  6. BigMuffler

    BigMuffler Loli is love loli is life!

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    Volkan wasn't able to overpower OSP, OSP is kind of a stud even if not the greatest fighter. :D
     
  7. FacePunch

    FacePunch Banned Banned

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  8. 91 seconds

    91 seconds Disposable Hero

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    There were only two options to the way that fight was going to go and I called it. Don't believe me, check my history..Ngannou had power but there was still a question mark. Miocic, even though GG, was not that stupid and was going to take that fight to where he'd wear Francis down, or he was going to slug with him the first 2 rounds and possibly get knocked out.

    Ngannou knew he better get it done before the 4th and Stipe knew he had to take him there and had the perfect gameplan. It was his only choice realistically to best ensure a win. Miocic is now the greatest HW champ the UFC has had. The belt is no longer a hot potato and we have a guy defending that thing against all comers.
     
  9. Sansnom

    Sansnom Black Belt

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    And fire burns.
     
  10. fzoid4454

    fzoid4454 Purple Belt

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    True. Poses an interesting dilemma for an up and coming fighter. Taking a risk and fighting more of the other bests out there probably prepares one better if they do get that shot, versus looking impressive and then getting the shot once you finally have a single top ten or top five win on your resume. But then you risk losing and maybe never getting that chance.
     
  11. The Moloko man

    The Moloko man Yellow Card Yellow Card

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    In the momemt?.....Ngannou fought like every body said he would and saw him do every fight prior....over extending himself and swinging for the fences with all his might

    And why does everybody keep calling him an athletic freak?.....what have we seen him do that is freakishly athletic?

    Freak Strength and power are a literal prerequisite at HW....but people don't call cain, Fedor or stipe freak athletes even though they'really all Americans in sports, Olympic level athletes or golden gloves champs who played multiple div 1 college sports...

    and magomedov moves ten times better than Francis and actually has a gas tank....yet I've never heard him called a "athlete"....so what is it?
     
  12. fzoid4454

    fzoid4454 Purple Belt

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    His punches were way more telegraphed and wild than vs Overeem, for example. That's what I'm talking about. Yes, people call Cain a freak all the time, mosty for his cardio, and Fedor, in his heyday, with his strength vs his size (small HW), absolutely was called a freak.

    Yes, you have to be athletic, but all the guys you just pointed to as comparisons have very, very well refined technical skillsets. Ngannou's technical skills aren't at that level, and he's still usually able to blast guys out. That's why it gets pointed to as freakish physical ability, because it's not better execution of skills.

    As for why no one calles Ruslan an "athlete," could be because he's sitting for two years because of PED use, which kind of detracts from the idea of natural athleticism, and also because no one generally says "that's an incredibly athletic string of six decision wins against nobodies," for reasons that probably don't require an explanation.
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2018

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