Anyone training BJJ without sparring?

[knees_n_elbows]

God no, why would I do that?! Sparring is the fun part and how you know what your doing works.

 

[SuperiorHands]

You could do technique every day for a year and the guy doing twice a week with rolling would smoke you.

People aren't getting terrible injuries everywhere, I've spent a lot of time at various gyms and other than stuff that nags its rare I see someone get hurt hurt.

The key to not getting hurt is to do some strength training to make sure your body is conditioned enough to handle the stress of rolling (and I'm speaking general strength training, not trying to bench and squat 800 pounds or anything ridiculous), to take it easy when you are hurt, and finally to tap in time.

Almost all the injuries I have seen have been one someone is trying to hold out to something that's 99% finished and not tapping in time. If something is basically done, tap, and worry about not getting into that position in the first place.

Keep rolling.

 

[1PBCE1]

Since your an upper belt(purple and higher) you basically get a pass for not rolling after class most of the time. It's assumed you paid your dues, have the skills, etc.

But I think it's different for white and blue belts. You basically should roll after drilling if time or injury is not an issue. Like someone said, you don't want to be that newish or lower level guy who doesn't roll. Not knocking you here, but it's also sort of annoying when a student leaves before the rolling section leaving an odd number of partner where someone has to sit out. My last gym, 2 students starting doing this and it was a small morning class to begin with so needless to say it became disappointing.

But basically upper belts like yourself can train however you want since at this point your in charge of your own development.

That is exactly what my reply would have been, but worded better.

 

[AnotherOldGuy]

I train with a guy in his late 60s whom I've never seen spar. I don't really have a problem with it, but he keeps getting promoted. Assuming he keeps training, I don't know how our instructor could eventually give him a brown or black belt when he doesn't spar.

Late 60s? Most likely rolling except with extremely careful (and good) partners would be a disaster, perhaps even fatal (as in heart attack).

I'm older myself (but not that old), yet I think I'd want to see his doctor's written permission before rolling with him. Easier than explaining to his family what happened. I imagine your instructor is secretly relieved he doesn't roll.

As for promotions, I don't know, at that age they're generally based on things other than how well you can apply your technique in competition. Almost all (if not all) of the highest ranks in judo and BJJ (7-8-9-10th degree black belts) are based on things other than rolling, partly because at that age rolling is more a test of how well you've aged rather than your technique).

I suspect promotions aren't a big deal for him; that's more a young person's thing. When you get that old its about being active, getting out of the house, and keeping your doctor happy. You see some old guys in boxing gyms too, hitting the bags but never sparring; there's no belts involved, they're just there for the exercise and atmosphere.

 

[AnotherOldGuy]

You could do technique every day for a year and the guy doing twice a week with rolling would smoke you.

People aren't getting terrible injuries everywhere, I've spent a lot of time at various gyms and other than stuff that nags its rare I see someone get hurt hurt.

The key to not getting hurt is to do some strength training to make sure your body is conditioned enough to handle the stress of rolling (and I'm speaking general strength training, not trying to bench and squat 800 pounds or anything ridiculous), to take it easy when you are hurt, and finally to tap in time.

Almost all the injuries I have seen have been one someone is trying to hold out to something that's 99% finished and not tapping in time. If something is basically done, tap, and worry about not getting into that position in the first place.

Keep rolling.

Yup. With the exception of the old or crippled, learning BJJ without rolling is like taking tennis or golf lessons without ever playing a game of tennis or golf, or taking guitar lessons but never playing any songs. Its hard to imagine anyone doing it - just drills gets pretty dull in any activity.

And I'll add the old and/or crippled always wish they were younger/healthier and could take part in the actual fun parts - the rolling in BJJ, playing sets in tennis, playing a game of golf.

 

[TheLastEmperorReurns]

i.e. doing just the technique/drilling part of the class and skipping the rolling part?

Is this even possible where you train?

I think this would be a great option for people who have had too many injuries and want to avoid the high risks associated with sparring (and competing). Injuries are rampant in BJJ and everyone eventually gets one of those horrific injuries.

P.S. and no, I'm not talking about Machado's flow jitsu for rich celebrities, but regular clubs and regular people.

You can abstain from rolling in regular jiu jitsu gyms.

I think the better option is finding someone you can roll at 10% pace with.

Visualizing is also an amazing mental exercise that's proven to help you improve at the same pace as people that go through the motions physically.



Timestamped for you. Very interesting stuff.

 

[kjg1672]

Late 60s? Most likely rolling except with extremely careful (and good) partners would be a disaster, perhaps even fatal (as in heart attack).

I'm older myself (but not that old), yet I think I'd want to see his doctor's written permission before rolling with him. Easier than explaining to his family what happened. I imagine your instructor is secretly relieved he doesn't roll.

As for promotions, I don't know, at that age they're generally based on things other than how well you can apply your technique in competition. Almost all (if not all) of the highest ranks in judo and BJJ (7-8-9-10th degree black belts) are based on things other than rolling, partly because at that age rolling is more a test of how well you've aged rather than your technique).

I suspect promotions aren't a big deal for him; that's more a young person's thing. When you get that old its about being active, getting out of the house, and keeping your doctor happy. You see some old guys in boxing gyms too, hitting the bags but never sparring; there's no belts involved, they're just there for the exercise and atmosphere.

I don't know about his doctor, but he's said that his wife does not like him doing BJJ. It's interesting you bring up a doctor's note, though. It's a legitimate concern, and one I never really thought of.

Actually, promotions do seem pretty important to him. He recently received his purple belt and was super excited. He also knows exactly how exactly many years are required by IBJJF standards to for each belt promotion (I have no clue) and he talks about these requirements pretty frequently. (He's also one of those guys who is pretty much always talking throughout class and drilling.) In any case, I admire the guts it takes for him to get out there. I was conscious of my age when I started in my mid 30s. I personally have no desire to train much past 50. I'll probably be done with BJJ in a few years when I'm in my early 50s and get my workouts through swimming and yoga, and be just fine with it.

 

[freakroor]

Can you learn the piano without ever playing a song?!

 

[cakemuncher]

Can you learn the piano without ever playing a song?!

That's a very poor comparison.

Firstly, playing a piano poses virtually no risk of injury, let alone injury that will result in disability and/or pain for the rest of your life.

Secondly, you CAN still learn BJJ by doing just techniques and no sparring. Obviously, you would accept that it's not the "real deal" and that you won't progress nearly as much. But the point is that you can still learn, improve and have fun, while drastically reducing the risk of injury.

 

[AnotherOldGuy]

Can you learn the piano without ever playing a song?!

You could get very good at scales - and there are various drills (one hand quiet, the other loud etc), enough to easily fill up a couple of hours a day of practice. In fact you're supposed to do some every day as it is ... I think most of us would be bored silly just doing them though. They're useful (like BJJ drills), but the fun is in songs (and better yet, playing with other musicians).

 

[AnotherOldGuy]

I don't know about his doctor, but he's said that his wife does not like him doing BJJ. It's interesting you bring up a doctor's note, though. It's a legitimate concern, and one I never really thought of.

Actually, promotions do seem pretty important to him. He recently received his purple belt and was super excited. He also knows exactly how exactly many years are required by IBJJF standards to for each belt promotion (I have no clue) and he talks about these requirements pretty frequently. (He's also one of those guys who is pretty much always talking throughout class and drilling.) In any case, I admire the guts it takes for him to get out there. I was conscious of my age when I started in my mid 30s. I personally have no desire to train much past 50. I'll probably be done with BJJ in a few years when I'm in my early 50s and get my workouts through swimming and yoga, and be just fine with it.

Yup, full credit for him being out there - at late sixties even doing drills it means aches and pains, easier just to stay inside on your sofa. Good for him.

Interesting that he's into belts, most old folks I know don't worry about that sort of thing (auditing classes at university instead of taking them for credit etc). But if that's what gets him active, then power to him. I wonder why his wife doesn't want him doing BJJ - my guess is she's afraid of him getting injured. As you get older, generally your wife wants you to keep active so you'll live longer (women tend to outlive men as it is).

 

[freakroor]

That's a very poor comparison.

Firstly, playing a piano poses virtually no risk of injury, let alone injury that will result in disability and/or pain for the rest of your life.

Secondly, you CAN still learn BJJ by doing just techniques and no sparring. Obviously, you would accept that it's not the "real deal" and that you won't progress nearly as much. But the point is that you can still learn, improve and have fun, while drastically reducing the risk of injury.

Can you learn a language without having a conversation?

 

[MonkeyNuts!]

I train with a guy in his late 60s whom I've never seen spar. I don't really have a problem with it, but he keeps getting promoted. Assuming he keeps training, I don't know how our instructor could eventually give him a brown or black belt when he doesn't spar.

You should show him the video of the 68 year old female MMA fighter getting in the ring with a 24 yr old opponent and then demand that he roll with you immediately.

 

[Lenny7]

I wouldn't expect him/her to be promoted very far but it's strange how much some of you seem to care what someone else does or doesn't do.

 

[xMTDx]

My problem is the other way around. Too much rolling and not enough drilling. We have a relatively new club so as a long time purple belt all the young white and blue belts want to test themselves and I can't help myself as I dont get to train much

 

[cakemuncher]

I'm telling you guys, the first person that opens a low intensity, noncompetitive, "pussy - BJJ gym" is gonna have a major success.

Belts can be given based on a predefined list of acquired techniques, rather than success in competitions.

So many people quit BJJ because of injuries or because competitive rolling is too intense for them (for their bodies, their level of fitness, their lifestyle, the amount of time they can dedicate to BJJ etc).

People who quit = lost $$$

P.S. In other martial arts like Muay Thai it is normal to have classes for people who don't spar or spar super lightly. It would be wrong to expect that everyone wants to spar hard till they get KO'd or broken ribs.

 

[Solidus Snake]

I'm telling you guys, the first person that opens a low intensity, noncompetitive, "pussy - BJJ gym" is gonna have a major success.

Belts can be given based on a predefined list of acquired techniques, rather than success in competitions.

So many people quit BJJ because of injuries or because competitive rolling is too intense for them (for their bodies, their level of fitness, their lifestyle, the amount of time they can dedicate to BJJ etc).

People who quit = lost $$$

P.S. In other martial arts like Muay Thai it is normal to have classes for people who don't spar or spar super lightly. It would be wrong to expect that everyone wants to spar hard till they get KO'd or broken ribs.

As long as there will be competitions, gyms like the one you described will never be took seriously. I mean sure, I can see people join some Light Jiu Jitsu academy (after all, people join any kind of useless traditional crap or even energy fraud, right?) where you only drill lightly, learn technique and maybe do some shitty flow rolling, but the rest of anybody vaguely interested in learning how to grapple would avoid a place with zero hard sparring, and zero competition success.

For Muay Thai and generally striking it's also different because it isn't something you can train full contact (to the KO) always. For how injured you might turn with grappling it's still another completely kind of a story.

 

[ChristTruth70]

I've done Gracie JJ for a year (got my white/blue self defense belt, i.e. "five stripes"), and now switched over to no-gi at a regular "sport-oriented" club. I'm in my late 40s and roll in class twice a week, and one hour of open mat. The good thing with open mat is you usually can tell your partner(s) of any injuries and/or the type of flow you want to go. I suggest joining a Self Defense club that either has open mat, or you go to another gym (that is cool with it) that has open mat.

 

[Foppa21]

I'm telling you guys, the first person that opens a low intensity, noncompetitive, "pussy - BJJ gym" is gonna have a major success.

Belts can be given based on a predefined list of acquired techniques, rather than success in competitions.

So many people quit BJJ because of injuries or because competitive rolling is too intense for them (for their bodies, their level of fitness, their lifestyle, the amount of time they can dedicate to BJJ etc).

People who quit = lost $$$

P.S. In other martial arts like Muay Thai it is normal to have classes for people who don't spar or spar super lightly. It would be wrong to expect that everyone wants to spar hard till they get KO'd or broken ribs.

Isn't that the Gracie University online system? I jest.... sort of

 

[lechien]

I'm telling you guys, the first person that opens a low intensity, noncompetitive, "pussy - BJJ gym" is gonna have a major success.

Belts can be given based on a predefined list of acquired techniques, rather than success in competitions.

So many people quit BJJ because of injuries or because competitive rolling is too intense for them (for their bodies, their level of fitness, their lifestyle, the amount of time they can dedicate to BJJ etc).

People who quit = lost $$$

P.S. In other martial arts like Muay Thai it is normal to have classes for people who don't spar or spar super lightly. It would be wrong to expect that everyone wants to spar hard till they get KO'd or broken ribs.

They already exist in the like of self defense jiu jitsu academy that frownd upon sport bjj.