Anyone else think prime BJ would beat Khabib and Conor?

Loiosh said:
It's almost as though the guys picking Conor never watched BJ fight during his reign.
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Yes Daddy Stevenson and Kenny Florian are unbelievably high level wins.
 
Loiosh said:
It's almost as though the guys picking Conor never watched BJ fight during his reign.
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alot of new fans on here now bro... they have no idea how good BJ was in his prime.. like i said above, Conor cannot KO BJ, wont outstrike him, wont submit him, wont outpace him, Conor has zero strengths over BJ. BJ will eat Conor 10000%

Same thing happens with Anderson Silva, if you didn't know who Anderson was and you asked these people who he was, youd walk away thinking he was a can and an average fighter.... yet im almost certain they only started watching Anderson since the Weidman fights.
 
Khabib is alot bigger than BJ. BJ has fought people alot bigger than him hes a true warrior. Khabib doesnt have the guts to.
 
Wtf is a ''prime'' BJ? The guy basically managed a 0.500 record in his early 30s.

Being able to ''motivate'' yourself is part of being great, BJ is not great. I can just go around and say I would beat Jones, Fedor, Silva, GSP in the same night, I'm just not motivated enough to train hard.
 
The Witcher said:
Yes Daddy Stevenson and Kenny Florian are unbelievably high level wins.
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As I said, it's like you guys never actually watched the fights. Just looking at records doesn't tell you much of anything useful.

You know what I really can't understand? How can you ignore the Machida fight? Machida would knock Conor into tomorrow in the first round, he had just finished Bonnar, Franklin and McDonald, but couldn't finished BJ Penn. Say what you want about relative skill levels but those are huge guys, and Conor cried about Nate being "three times his size".

The math doesn't add up.
 
Bodil said:
Wtf is a ''prime'' BJ? The guy basically managed a 0.500 record in his early 30s.

Being able to ''motivate'' yourself is part of being great, BJ is not great. I can just go around and say I would beat Jones, Fedor, Silva, GSP in the same night, I'm just not motivated enough to train hard.
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I wonder what Conor's record would like like if he fought half his fights two or three weight classes higher.
 
Loiosh said:
As I said, it's like you guys never actually watched the fights. Just looking at records doesn't tell you much of anything useful.

You know what I really can't understand? How can you ignore the Machida fight? Machida would knock Conor into tomorrow in the first round, He had just finished Bonnar, Franklin and McDonald, but couldn't finished BJ Penn. Say what you want about relative skill levels but those are huge guys, and Conor cried about Nate being "three times his size".

The math doesn't add up.
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BJ is a fucken warrior and as tough as they come. I never disputed this.

For the record i have seen every one of his fights, if not live shortly after since the first GSP fight.

Conor, IMO, would wreck BJ.
 
The Witcher said:
BJ is a fucken warrior and as tough as they come. I never disputed this.

For the record i have seen every one of his fights, if not live shortly after since the first GSP fight.

Conor, IMO, would wreck BJ.
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How?

Much harder hitters never even knocked BJ down.

Conor has a huge problem here, he isn't knocking BJ out, and has even less of a gas tank.
 
boss429 said:
He doesn't really care if he does get taken down though cause he can neutralise and threaten subs off his back. Aside from the second GSP fight nobody ever really beat him up on the ground
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C’mon, you know that’s not true.

Hughes and Fitch both gave him a severe pounding. (Ok, there’s a cracked rib excuse for the Hughes fight). The 3rd round of Fitch was inexcusable for a pro athlete who is supposed to be a BJJ prodigy.

And no, I’ve never seen him do anything off his back (in MMA) as far as threatening subs. He usually just lies there and gasses out.
He also gasses out badly simply getting back up after TD’s (Edgar).

If he could keep things standing and if he could be the one on top if it went to the ground, then yea, he was almost unbeatable.

If prime BJ had to fight Colby, he would have gassed out from 5 minutes of doing what RDA did.
 
Benoitthegr8 said:
sorry but the game had evolved so much since BJ and Frankie reigned over 155, they’d be outsized, outmatched, and outskilled by either ConMan or Khabib.
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Did you say the same thing when Weidman and Rockhold were ruling over MW and then GSP eventually ended up with the belt?
 
Loiosh said:
How?

Much harder hitters never even knocked BJ down.

Conor has a huge problem here, he isn't knocking BJ out, and has even less of a gas tank.
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How? By cracking him flush on chin multiple times.
 
Loiosh said:
So Machida couldn't do it, but Conor could?

Don't see it.


BJ would have killed him.
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What is good for one isnt for the other. How many times have we seen this in MMA? Or do you use MMAth all the time?
 
lefthighkick01 said:
alot of new fans on here now bro... they have no idea how good BJ was in his prime.. like i said above, Conor cannot KO BJ, wont outstrike him, wont submit him, wont outpace him, Conor has zero strengths over BJ. BJ will eat Conor 10000%

Same thing happens with Anderson Silva, if you didn't know who Anderson was and you asked these people who he was, youd walk away thinking he was a can and an average fighter.... yet im almost certain they only started watching Anderson since the Weidman fights.
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Dude, I hate Connor and his bullshit as much as the next fan who misses guys who actually fight instead of twitter about all day and not fight.

BUT

Connor has a couple of things going for him in favor of Penn, and to deny them is either you being a complete fanboy, or a Conner hater. Look at it through the lens of critical thinking for a change.

Pros for Connor:
1-Much better boxing-His hands and his use of footwork and angles presents a far more dangerous opponent than Penn has faced before...Yes including Machida. Also, his reflexes and rolling with the punches lends to Penn, the shorter fighter...Always being in serious danger of the counter. His accuracy and timing...Also above BJ's.(And Machida)

2-His kicking game-Penn has barely if ever checked kicks in his career, and though Connor's kicks aren't as strong as say...Aldo's...He has speed and snap to them. Accumulation of kicks to the body, especially front kicks to Penn who is already no stamina god, will waste away at his gas tank. Add the kicks to the body shots he will receive and Penn can...And will be worn down quicker receiving them compared to the guy throwing them and landing.

3-Distance control-Given Penn's stature and lack of footwork, he will have a difficult time closing the distance to strike or even attempt takedowns. This also ties into stamina...He will eventually wilt and coast to a decision loss if he isn't finished.(We've seen this before)

Pros for Penn:
1- Takedowns- Though he doesn't go for them very often, when he decides you're going down, he will take you there. The surprise is his lack of them. You think you're going into a fire fight and then he decides "You know, I'm tired of piecing this dude up, I'm taking him to the floor"...And it always surprises the opponent because BJ's stance stays pretty natural before he attempts it. His timing between his boxing heavy stance and the takedown attempt almost looks instant. There is barely a "tell" he will do it.

2-Grappling- Conner may be competent...But Penn has a way of making competent look very mediocre. Unless you're a high level grappler(Be it wrestler with great sub defense like Frankie...Or another high level bjj black belt like Nick Diaz)...You're in for some serious shit that you're not getting out of. Connor would not get out of this...Period.

3-Jaw-Unlike the Diaz brothers...Penn's recovery isn't what makes him special. Those guys will come at you like terminator simply because their conditioning and recovery from said conditioning allows them to. Penn, never had that level of conditioning(Not even under Marv, Sanchez and Florian weren't pushing him...They were just not good enough)...What Penn did have was a cement head. He can take a beating simply out of toughness and a chin that won't quit. This could play a role in a hypothetical fight with Connor where both are prime...But his body is still quite soft compared to his chin.


The cons for both...

Penn:
1:Soft body-As much of a beating as he can take to the cranium, his body and conditioning aren't as reliable.
2:Complacency- He has a tendency to wait for openings while getting punched/kicked/taken down...Waiting for openings that might not present themselves.
3:Too reliant on boxing- Penn is a wrestle-boxer in the sense that he does what they do...But with BJJ instead of wrestling. Sure he will throw up a knee or kick if he feels the oppertunity is 100% there. If not, he won't stray away from his style. Something he would have to do to win a fight with Connor.
4:His conditioning was never that good...Not even under Marv.

Connor:
1: Conditioning- Though he looked impressive in a boxing setting(Given who he was fighting and being an MMA fighter in boxing setting)...There was no grappling involved. In MMA he fades and/or slows down fast about a minute into the second.
2: Ground game- He just can't compete here...Even in a top dominant position I feel he wouldn't look as good as he did against an injured Holloway.
3: Throws too many useless kicks. He doesn't conserve his energy well when throwing spinning shit out of range just to scare off the opposition. Being flashy with no substance only hurts him.
4: Takes too much damage at times for the sake of fire fighting. We get it, you're tough...Now fight smart.
 
I think he would rnc Conor, but he would loss to Khabib.Prime BJ vs Ferguson, that would be a scrap
 
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