Anyone else feel like Tony vs. Khabib will look just like…

[moosaev]

We will have to see. No one khabib has faced has Ferguson’s ground game. The closest may be rda? But he is not a bottom fighter like tony. This is a complicated fight. This is not a rock paper scissor match up

its a great fight,..can't wait. Haven't been this excited for a fight since the last 3 times it was booked.

 

[Zeppeling]

Nope, because you and the other Ferguson backers always fly off the handle when he is called hypejob and get all emotional like women do when their PMSing. When facts are brought to the table you dance around them and keep up with your stream of emotionalism. I have stated time and time again that Ferguson doesn't have defensive wrestling and you bums dance around it because you know it's true. Don't try to turn this around on me as if I'm being the one who is approaching this like a spurned lover. Now I've said what I have to say and won't engage you further. You've proven that being rational isn't what are interested in or inclined towards as your immature response here further proves.

I’ll pay you money if you show me how I’m a ferguson nut hugger, how I’ve responded emotionally, and where I’ve portrayed anything like pms. Dude, you have all the markings of someone who breaks their keyboard and kicks their dog ...I don’t want to push you over the edge...but Ferguson’s wrestling is at least 100 fold less suspect than khabibs striking. So, unless you can objectively prove me otherwise, eat potato chips and talk to the wall

 

[cooks1]

I generally agree with you assessment, however Tony does have quite a few early KO/TKOs earlier in his career. It's not out of the realm of possibility.

Almost Every top UFC fighter has loads of KO's and subs early in their career. Almost everyone starts out fighting cans.

 

[tramendous]

The question to me is what will Tony offer from his back

If Tony is smart enough to realise he's gonna be put on his back and works on elbows and submissions from his back, I think he could pull it off

Hes not going to submit khabib and khabib's top control & g&p > tony's elbows from the bottom.

 

[rorschach51]

10 fight win streak and 9 fight win streak in lightweight division battle for the real championship since champ who is 1-0 in lightweight is fucked his mind up with money.

And no.He gets murked against both two.He has a puncher's chance.

Stop feeding McGregor trolls, thread has amazingly stayed on topic (for the most part) for over 50 posts. Lets keep it that way

 

[tramendous]

The thing about this fight is its 5 rounds and Khabib has never been past 3 plus he's had weight cutting issues in the past. If Ferugson can make Khabib work hard for 3 or 4 rounds he may be able to wear him down and get a submission or knockout. Should be a wicked fight though, a 10 fight win streak vs a 9 fight win streak. Can't wait for this one.

When ferguson gets beat up for those 3 rounds, he wont have much left for 4 and 5.

 

[Homervanderjaz]

Previous Khabib fights? Ragdoll city. Ground and pound to Bolivian.

I don’t think Tony is known for his great TDD neither.

Tbh I have never seen grappling/wrestling like Khabibs. He makes elite fighters look like amateurs when he grabs hold of them. I think this fight will go the same way tbh.

 

[ImNotSurpisedDonks!]

Tony is gnna fuck his world up

Bro, as a Boston Boy, I agree with you on much of the wisdom that you shed here, but Tony is going to get Dagestan Massacred 2.0.

 

[Gilday]

Hes not going to submit khabib and khabib's top control & g&p > tony's elbows from the bottom.

In theory yes you're right, but Tony is still a very good fighter who knows if he could sneak a submission in the championship rounds

 

[Gluhov]

The fight will start getting interesting late in the 3rd imo. Khabib doesn't gas hard but he does slow down. Slowing down against ferg is a bad idea.

 

[rorschach51]

That paragraph proves my point.

The RDA, Barboza, and Lando fight are examples of Khabib not even having a punchers chance against Tony.

Plus Khabib got clipped by MJ and was rocked, so he will be in trouble if Fergy lands a big shot or an elbow.

Tony lost too MJ so...Odd point.

 

[tramendous]

In theory yes you're right, but Tony is still a very good fighter who knows if he could sneak a submission in the championship rounds

The most dangerous thing i think for khabib is him charging forward with his chin in the air or doing half ass flying knees . He did both of those vs barboza.

 

[DoopidyDawesome]

Lol at ground & pound to Bolivian

I'm gonna start saying this all the time now.

 

[cooks1]

That’s absolute bull shit. Tony is not a striking savant, but he is dangerous. Not dangerous in that he can catch you with a 1 punch ko, but dangerous in that he can catch you with an array of different attacks. Admittedly none of them typically ko, but he stuns plenty of his opponents. He loses the first round always, we know that. But he beat rda, barboza, etc on the feet after he got settled. Pretending he doesn’t have good stand up is terminally naive.

He did not beat them after he got settled. He beat them after they got tired.

And I did not say Tony did not have good stand up. I said he does not beat people with his stand-up. And he doesn't.

The kind of fitness Tony displays in fights can be as powerful or even more powerful a weapon than good stand-up or submissions. It's truly rare. It's the kind of fitness prime Diego Sanchez displayed. The kind of fitness prime Clay Guida diaplayed. The kind of fitness prime Cain Velasquez displayed. Very close to the kind of fitness Might Mouse displays. He has that kind of fitness. He is more skilled and creative than Diego and Guida were. He is less skilled than Cain and MM. That's where I put him. Legendary champion level cardio, with very solid but not champion level technical skill. That combination is certainly enough to be a champion. We will see if its enough to be a dominant one.

Most fighters, even the really in shape ones, have a productivity output something like 100% in round 1, 85% round 2, 70% round 3, 60% round 4, 50% round 5. The fights generally still seem competitive in the 5th round because the other fighter is in the same boat.

People like Tony go something like 100%, 95%, 90%, 85%, 80%. With each passing round the fitness disparity increases.

Now Khabib is fit, but we have never seen him outside of 3 rounds, and we have never seen him in a situation where he is going to have to work as hard as Tony will make him work. Those are the questions he will have to answer.

It's interesting you mentioning Tony regularly losing first rounds. Now it may partially be that he is a slow starter. But it is also because his actual skills are not superior to his opponents. They are roughly the same. But in Round 2, 95% Tony is fighting a 75-85% opponent. And in round 3, a 90% Tony is fighting a 60- 70% opponent.

 

[Zeppeling]

He did not beat them after he got settled. He beat them after they got tired.

And I did not say Tony did not have good stand up. I said he does not beat people with his stand-up. And he doesn't.

The kind of fitness Tony displays in fights can be as powerful or even more powerful a weapon than good stand-up or submissions. It's truly rare. It's the kind of fitness prime Diego Sanchez displayed. The kind of fitness prime Clay Guida diaplayed. The kind of fitness prime Cain Velasquez displayed. Very close to the kind of fitness Might Mouse displays. He has that kind of fitness. He is more skilled and creative than Diego and Guida were. He is less skilled than Cain and MM. That's where I put him. Legendary champion level cardio, with very solid but not champion level technical skill. That combination is certainly enough to be a champion. We will see if its enough to be a dominant one.

Most fighters, even the really in shape ones, have a productivity output something like 100% in round 1, 85% round 2, 70% round 3, 60% round 4, 50% round 5. The fights generally still seem competitive in the 5th round because the other fighter is in the same boat.

People like Tony go something like 100%, 95%, 90%, 85%, 80%. With each passing round the fitness disparity increases.

Now Khabib is fit, but we have never seen him outside of 3 rounds, and we have never seen him in a situation where he is going to have to work as hard as Tony will make him work. Those are the questions he will have to answer.

Sorry but that’s disingenuous. No one tires after a round of fighting a poor striker. Tony has good stand up. There are only a few guys who can beat him on the feet, and that’s a maybe. Does he have the best technique? Conventionally, no. But he knows how to use his jabs, angles, elbows and kicks to make up for the skill disparity. Yes, he has the best cardio at 155. It sure plays a factor in his stand up, but he’s often hurried his opponents into despair after the first round before his cardio is even necessary.

Edit: I do acknowledge your point, by the way. I just respectfully disagree thst his cardio is what decides the fight on the feet. I believe he truly has the speed, rhythm, break rhythm, variety and length to beat anyone on the feet - even Conor.

 

[cooks1]

Sorry but that’s disingenuous. No one tires after a round of fighting a poor striker. Tony has good stand up. There are only a few guys who can beat him on the feet, and that’s a maybe. Does he have the best technique? Conventionally, no. But he knows how to use his jabs, angles, elbows and kicks to make up for the skill disparity. Yes, he has the best cardio at 155. It sure plays a factor in his stand up, but he’s often hurried his opponents into despair after the first round before his cardio is even necessary.

Edit: I do acknowledge your point, by the way. I just respectfully disagree thst his cardio is what decides the fight on the feet. I believe he truly has the speed, rhythm, break rhythm, variety and length to beat anyone on the feet - even Conor.

Everyone tires after a round of fighting. Regardless of whether they are fighting a poor striker or a good one. Honestly, go back and watch Tony's fights without sound. You are giving him too much credit. His is rangey and will punish people if they get reckless, but he's just average on the feet dude.

Tony's stand-up is just OK. If he chose to fight at a slower pace it's unlikely he would be in the top 5 or 6 in the division.

His key to success is his conditioning and pace. He goes full speed every second of every round no matter what position he is in. There was one point in the Kevin Lee fight where Kevin took him down, and within 10 seconds, from his back, Tony threw 7 elbows to the head and threw a serious armbar attempt from guard that had to be defended. Kevin must have been thinking 'WTF?!?!?!' He got literally 0.00 seconds to be happy about his takedown before he was having to deal with shit. That is how Tony beats people.

 

[Zeppeling]

Everyone tires after a round of fighting. Regardless of whether they are fighting a poor striker or a good one. Honestly, go back and watch Tony's fights without sound. You are giving him too much credit. His is rangey and will punish people if they get reckless, but he's just average on the feet dude.

Tony's stand-up is just OK. If he chose to fight at a slower pace it's unlikely he would be in the top 5 or 6 in the division.

His key to success is his conditioning and pace. He goes full speed every second of every round no matter what position he is in. There was one point in the Kevin Lee fight where Kevin took him down, and within 10 seconds, from his back, Tony threw 7 elbows to the head and threw a serious armbar attempt from guard that had to be defended. Kevin must have been thinking 'WTF?!?!?!' He got literally 0.00 seconds to be happy about his takedown before he was having to deal with shit. That is how Tony beats people.

You can’t have one without the other. Wanderlei was only good because he threw heavy power and volume combos. You can’t take out an aspect of someone’s striking to discredit it. Conor only has good striking because he has amazing precision. His speed and power aren’t good so he’s not a good fighter. Would a wrestler that keeps the pressure and constantly drives be considered a poor wrestler because of it?

I admitted that tony doesn’t have great technique, but ask Ross Pierson how far technique goes without pressure, diversity, length, etc.

Good and bad stand up isn’t defined on your terms, it’s defined on effectiveness, and Tony’s stand up wins him fights

 

[cooks1]

You can’t have one without the other. Wanderlei was only good because he threw heavy power and volume combos. You can’t take out an aspect of someone’s striking to discredit it. Conor only has good striking because he has amazing precision. His speed and power aren’t good so he’s not a good fighter. Would a wrestler that keeps the pressure and constantly drives be considered a poor wrestler because of it?

I admitted that tony doesn’t have great technique, but ask Ross Pierson how far technique goes without pressure, diversity, length, etc.

Good and bad stand up isn’t defined on your terms, it’s defined on effectiveness, and Tony’s stand up wins him fights

Precision, power, speed, footwork, head movement, technique, etc--- the actual attributes of striking, Tony is just OK at. He is not excellent at any of it comparatively. There is no single element of his striking that is elite, much less as a whole.

Overall though, Tony as great. And I am looking forward to seeing him fight Khabib.

 

[Zeppeling]

Precision, power, speed, footwork, head movement, technique, etc--- the actual attributes of striking, Tony is just OK at. He is not excellent at any of it comparatively. There is no single element of his striking that is elite, much less as a whole.

Overall though, Tony as great. And I am looking forward to seeing him fight Khabib.

But the nature of the debate was thst tony had bad striking and none of his fights are won due to it, if I remember correctly.

Regardless, I agree he has no great qualities as a striker but is a great striker.

 

[cooks1]

But the nature of the debate was thst tony had bad striking and none of his fights are won due to it, if I remember correctly.

Regardless, I agree he has no great qualities as a striker but is a great striker.

Well, we agree on the first part but not on the second. He is a great fighter. But not a great striker. There is little evidence in his fights that points to his greatness as a striker. His lack of greatness as a striker should not be considered a dig. Matt Hughes had more limited stand-up than Tony and he is one of the GOATS.

Tony is great at scrambles. He is creative. He has great killer instinct and opportunism with subs. He has great resolve. And he has world class conditioning. An extremely enviable skill set. Probably only 4 or 5 active fighters in the UFC whose overall skill set I would rather have. (MM, GSP, Kahbib, Cormier, Jones if he were active, Maybe Stipe but it's hard to compare at that size difference)

I don't think striking will play a heavy role in the Khabib fight. If it does, it will either be in the later stages of the fight, where exhaustion is the real factor, or will be from Tony cutting Khabib open with elbows from his back (That should be a real concern for Khabib- Tony's striking from his back can be nasty).

Tony has a stand-up advantage over Khabib to be sure. But it will not be sufficient to deter Khabib from getting in and taking him down repeatedly.

This will boil down to whether or not Khabib can sufficiently impose his positional dominance on Tony as he typically does without tiring himself out, and being severely disadvantaged in the later rounds. If he can, Tony will either not have the juice at the end to overcome the early deficit, or will simply not be able to keep himself from being continually taken down. If Tony can make Khabib strenuously exert himself defending and working his ass off just to maintain position, he has a chance for a late sub or winning a decision by stealing the championship rounds.

I think it will be Khabib winning a unanimous decision or late gnp stoppage. I think Tony will have to work a lot harder than he is used to to protect himself and get out from under Khabib. And that he will not have an anwer to the takedowns. He may escape from them a fair bit, but he will be back down in short order.

A big challenge for Tony in this fight is that he likes to press, and that really suits Khabib. It will make it easier to get ahold of him. If he presses, the fight will go like a less dominant version of the Trujillo fight, with Khabid getting lots of TD's.

He would be better trying to evade like Barboza did, and make Khabib really work for the TD's. He will just need to do a lot better at getting up than Barboza did.