Anti-Cartel Mexican Congressional candidate shot dead while posing for selfie

While on the one hand I understand and do agree with the macro-mechanics of this argument, on the other, I've always found it odd that we aren't being invaded by all these Canadian cartels.
I think there is a lack of understanding by a lot of folks that Mexico is merely the primary smuggling route. They don't make all the drugs (super labs for meth and some marijuana fields not withstanding), but most of the drugs funnel up through there. It's for this reason and the willingness of the Mexican cartels to be hyper-violent that they run so much of it.
 
Let's restructure that statement and see if it still hold water

"Neocons, every death of an American citizen that doesn't have affordable health insurance is partly your fault"

Wouldn't building a wall and/or better enforcement of immigration laws ultimately lead to more affordable health care for most Americans?
 
One not like we do. Its the routes in mexico leading north that the violence is about
2 yes actually drug legalization and using the funds we save in prison and law enforcement and the taxes from it to treat it as a medical problem / fund other healthcare needs is exactly the solution to a lot of problems . Kind of a mega deal if you will from mexico to american incarceration to funding things that need funding
I don't understand what you're saying in that first line.

If you want to incorporate a medical treatment component into this, that's fine. Most users don't spend a ton of time in jail anyways. If you're dealing, then I'm all for locking them up for huge chunks of time.
 
If you want to incorporate a medical treatment component into this, that's fine. Most users don't spend a ton of time in jail anyways. If you're dealing, then I'm all for locking them up for huge chunks of time.

Why ?

That hasnt worked and isnt going to ever work due to the chance o making a quick buck making the risk worth it to a lot of people who dont understand how hard it is to climb the ladder before they go down that road

we have had much better success with letting cvs sell booze to people despite how bad it is for you and its societal costs than we had when it was sold in a dirty back room by al capone

we have an over crowded prison system and arent anywhere near accomplishing a damn thing in regards to removing drugs from our society


Thats just foolish wishful thinking that that is any way to deal with a problem or doesnt create more problems than it fixes
 
Why ?

That hasnt worked and isnt going to ever work due to the chance o making a quick buck making the risk worth it to a lot of people who dont understand how hard it is to climb the ladder before they go down that road

we have had much better success with letting cvs sell booze to people despite how bad it is for you and its societal costs than we had when it was sold in a dirty back room by al capone

we have an over crowded prison system and arent anywhere near accomplishing a damn thing in regards to removing drugs from our society


Thats just foolish wishful thinking that that is any way to deal with a problem or doesnt create more problems than it fixes
So because it's hard and they have a sad story is justification for dealing drugs? Drugs destroy lives, ravage communities, cause turf wars that empower gangs and harm others, spread disease through sharing of needles or other paraphernalia, create all sorts of other crime (PCP users are known to become violent, withdrawal symptoms for many drugs incentivize people to steal or even kill to get money for the drug, engage in prostitution for drug money), and siphon billions of dollars out of the US annually to where the drugs are made and smuggled. Why would I want that legalized? That chain of drugs, money, and violence is really evil stuff. If anyone deals drugs, fuck them. I hope they catch a bullet between the eyes sooner rather than later. And again, I'm talking about dealers, not trap house users. If you are a user, pay a fine and maybe spend the night in the drunk tank, and be on your way.

Like I said, I'm fine with the legalization of marijuana. It doesn't have many of the negative effects of other drugs on its users, so the regular consumption of it by a significant number of people generally won't harm society in the same way as regular consumption of heroin by a significant number of users does. Equating all drugs to marijuana is simply wrong though.

Edit: It's also worth noting that I don't intend to "solve" the problem. The problem is always going to be there. What I am seeking to do is manage the problem, hopefully by taking steps to remove drug dealers and their suppliers from the streets.
 
Wouldn't building a wall and/or better enforcement of immigration laws ultimately lead to more affordable health care for most Americans?
The whole wall thing is such a red herring, there are walls in places already where it was determined advantageous. Running a wall across the entire southern border is just stupid. There are large swaths of the border where a wall is pretty much impossible, also believe it or not a vast majority of the illegals don't come by the mass land migration bum rush everyone thinks a vast majority of these people come by plane a boat or apply
As far as the "better enforcement of our immigration laws" the problem is that the whole understanding of our immigration laws by most people is so muddied. The "lottery system" and "chain migration" that Trump complains about is not what he's presented nor nearly as simple. The immigration system should be corrected but the current system is an exercise in hypocrisy, the very fact that the current administration is quietly pushing to up the quota of temporary worker visas due to a need for the low skill and low pay people needed for things like picking veggies and such while at the same time vocally pushing to close off the border is a prime example. So yes, I do believe we need immigration reform, although I doubt you'd like the reform I'm talking about.

As far as the comment I originally replied to; yes there are some people that have come here illegally and killed people, but at what percent vs those that either directly or through their offspring have contributed to our country? The "killer immigrants" are a very miniscule percentage compared to the numbers that either they or their kids serve in our military or go on to be contributing members of our society.

As far as the effect on health care costs, no. The "leaching of our healthcare system by illegals", is again another red herring argument, it's a very small percentage. The problem is with the insurance companies, they've created a system where services and goods are not a standardized price and the medical billing system has become so convoluted that the administrative costs associated with medical care are why you are paying hypothetically $50 for an aspirin. The government doesn't even need to create a universal health care system (although personally I think it's stupid not to, people complain about that government shouldn't be involved in healthcare yet Medicare, Medicaid and the VA are HUGE institutions that show they already are). Quite simply if there were a standardized system with standardized pricing with the governments only job being to make sure companies aren't price gouging I think we'd have a much better system.

Trump says health care is hard, but what he really means is health care is hard when we let an industry like the insurance companies dictate the policy. I don't completely blame Trump either, Obama's people let the insurance companies get away with so much leading up to and in implementation of the ACA that they practically set it up to fail in its original and current state.
 
I was unaware that much cocaine came in from the north and that it was the money to do with that cain was the driving force behind a lot of that south american craziness
Yeah, interesting that it never came from the north, isn't it?
 
The whole wall thing is such a red herring, there are walls in places already where it was determined advantageous. Running a wall across the entire southern border is just stupid. There are large swaths of the border where a wall is pretty much impossible, also believe it or not a vast majority of the illegals don't come by the mass land migration bum rush everyone thinks a vast majority of these people come by plane a boat or apply

My wall comment was halfway sarcastic . . . I understand that building a wall across the entire southern better isn't possible . . .

As far as the "better enforcement of our immigration laws" the problem is that the whole understanding of our immigration laws by most people is so muddied. The "lottery system" and "chain migration" that Trump complains about is not what he's presented nor nearly as simple. The immigration system should be corrected but the current system is an exercise in hypocrisy, the very fact that the current administration is quietly pushing to up the quota of temporary worker visas due to a need for the low skill and low pay people needed for things like picking veggies and such while at the same time vocally pushing to close off the border is a prime example. So yes, I do believe we need immigration reform, although I doubt you'd like the reform I'm talking about.

I'd say we need a more efficient immigration process before we need full blown reform . . .

As far as the effect on health care costs, no. The "leaching of our healthcare system by illegals", is again another red herring argument, it's a very small percentage. The problem is with the insurance companies, they've created a system where services and goods are not a standardized price and the medical billing system has become so convoluted that the administrative costs associated with medical care are why you are paying hypothetically $50 for an aspirin. The government doesn't even need to create a universal health care system (although personally I think it's stupid not to, people complain about that government shouldn't be involved in healthcare yet Medicare, Medicaid and the VA are HUGE institutions that show they already are). Quite simply if there were a standardized system with standardized pricing with the governments only job being to make sure companies aren't price gouging I think we'd have a much better system.

I wasn't saying that illegals are a leech on the healthcare industry . . . they definitely contribute to the high cost, but so do millions of other uninsured citizens.

The insurance companies definitely hold a huge chunk of the blame for our high costs.
 
I'd say we need a more efficient immigration process before we need full blown reform . . .



I wasn't saying that illegals are a leech on the healthcare industry . . . they definitely contribute to the high cost, but so do millions of other uninsured citizens.

The insurance companies definitely hold a huge chunk of the blame for our high costs.
The entire process is pretty screwed up. It's a system that was set up to fail. Then again it's a government system and the more I work with government the more I've realized that it is never just a matter of dealing with one entity. You always get into a situation where it's multiple agencies that have a mission to satisfy and in many cases they will contradict each other and create the quagmire or bureaucracy.

It would be impossible to say they don't "contribute" to the high cost, but if the rest of the issues were resolved the immigrants/healthcare wouldn't even be a blip on the radar.

The insurance companies and the entire medical billing system are the main culprits, again if it were a standardized system and with some level of regulation it could remain a private industry and still be successful but again the ones that would be hurt are the insurance companies and they have too strong a lobby for that to happen.
 
The entire process is pretty screwed up. It's a system that was set up to fail. Then again it's a government system and the more I work with government the more I've realized that it is never just a matter of dealing with one entity. You always get into a situation where it's multiple agencies that have a mission to satisfy and in many cases they will contradict each other and create the quagmire or bureaucracy.

It would be impossible to say they don't "contribute" to the high cost, but if the rest of the issues were resolved the immigrants/healthcare wouldn't even be a blip on the radar.

The insurance companies and the entire medical billing system are the main culprits, again if it were a standardized system and with some level of regulation it could remain a private industry and still be successful but again the ones that would be hurt are the insurance companies and they have too strong a lobby for that to happen.

Yep . . . 23+ years working for Uncle Sam here . . . models of efficiency our department ain't . . .
 
Yep . . . 23+ years working for Uncle Sam here . . . models of efficiency our department ain't . . .
One of the funniest I ever encountered was we were tearing down an old power plant. The EPA showed up with two different groups, one group said that the plant cooling water was warmer than the natural body of water so they were going to fine the plant for every day the temperature stayed above ambient. So they shut it down, and the second group showed up telling the plant that if they didn't heat the water back up so the Manatees had someplace to hang out (they really liked the warm water, they would all huddle by the exhaust so much I swear I could walk across them without getting my feet wet. Only problem is I discovered Manatees are very gassy and shit A LOT, kind of nasty and they are all right the shitting and farting in each other's faces) they would fine them, their reasoning was that the Manatees have gotten used to the warm water and they couldn't take that away until the plant was demolished to where it was no longer feasible to provide the heated water.
 


He's one of 113 candidates or politicians murdered since last September.

Nieto's homicide total has exceeded his predecessor, now. The following story dates to April 23rd when this apparently seized and dominated their Presidential debates. I'm seeing reports that violence is now at a 20-year high:
Violence in Mexico is still setting records — and the embattled president just reached a grisly milestone

If you adjust that figure for the US population the total would be approximately 268k homicides from December 2012 through March 2018 (5yr3mo period). That's roughly 5x our military combat casualties in Vietnam, 2/3 our combat casualties in WWII, and 3/7 (close to half) our combat casualty estimates for the Civil War-- our deadliest conflict in history.

April wasn't slowing down:
Is Cancun Safe? 14 Killed in Brutal Crime Spree at Mexican Resort Town (in a 36-hour period)

5ade1a4319ee8657008b4683-750.jpg



In January our government issued new travel advisory guidelines to us (American citizens) concerning Mexico. You can review these current guidelines here:
https://travel.state.gov/content/tr.../traveladvisories/mexico-travel-advisory.html

That last part amounts to the effect that US government employees aren't allowed to travel from the border inland into Mexico, at all, meaningfully, except on this highway during the daytime.

These are the Mexican states with caution advisories. The “do not travel” notice, considered a “Level 4” alert, is the highest warning level issued for international travel (Afghanistan, Syria, and Yemen are all similarly classified as a Level 4 danger).

LEVEL 4: DO NOT TRAVEL
  1. Colima
  2. Guerrero
  3. Michoacán
  4. Sinaloa
  5. Tamaulipas

LEVEL 3: RECONSIDER TRAVEL
  1. Chihuahua
  2. Coahulla
  3. Durango
  4. Estado de Mexico
  5. Jalisco
  6. Morelos
  7. Nayarit
  8. Nuevo Leon
  9. San Luis Potosi
  10. Sonora
  11. Zacatecas

LEVEL 2: EXERCISE INCREASED CAUTION
  1. Aguascalientes
  2. Baja California
  3. Baja California Sur
  4. Campeche
  5. Chiapas
  6. Guanajuato
  7. Hidalgo
  8. Mexico City
  9. Oaxaca
  10. Puebla
  11. Querataro
  12. Quintana Roo
  13. Tabasco
  14. Tiaxcala
  15. Veracruz
  16. Yucatan

As you can see, not even their capitol achieves the highest safety rating, and Cancun doesn't appear to any longer be a stable, secure portal into the country. Unsurprisingly, instability is even spreading to the ritzy tourist destinations:
U.S. bans government employees from travel to Mexican beach resort


Here is an extensive 2018 report on their drug violence situation:
https://justiceinmexico.org/2018-drug-violence-mexico-report/

Despite all of this, they still aren't leading south of the border in this hemisphere:
Mexico had over 29,000 murders in 2017, but homicide rate still lower than some Latin American nations

I was surprised to learn how many of my friends (and acquaintances) have visited Playa del Carmen at a pool party last summer. It seemed like everyone has been there. Many more than once. FYI, it's in the Quintana Roo state, with the Level 2 rating, but you've probably caught wind of the reports of illegal tequila and other nefarious activities creeping deeper and deeper into the spiritually gated heart of that tourist jewel.

I tell them all the same thing, now. Don't go back. Don't go to Mexico.

i was in playa del carmen when the 15 murders happened and had a run in with dudes that said they were cartel. SCARY times!!
 
Yeah, interesting that it never came from the north, isn't it?

Indeed, its also weird that America imports a lot of coffee from south of the border and virtually none from the north.

thinking-with-coffee.jpg
 
Indeed, its also weird that America imports a lot of coffee from south of the border and virtually none from the north.

thinking-with-coffee.jpg
All that South American coffee shipped through Mexico.

Perfection explanation for the marijuana cartels, too.
 
All that South American coffee shipped through Mexico.

Perfection explanation for the marijuana cartels, too.

It would be shipped from Mexico if America considered the selling of caffeine as criminal as the selling of plutonium to terrorists.
 
It would be shipped from Mexico if America considered the selling of caffeine as criminal as the selling of plutonium to terrorists.
Would it? I don't recall that route being the artery of Escobar's Medellin cartel.
 
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