Anthony Joshua open to MMA cage fight

[P4PSHERGOAT]

He would get destroyed in pure stand up with any top level pure striker but MMA fighters are not pure strikers and not many of the top guys are solely from a pure striking background. I'd pick a complete striker like Overeem over Anthony Joshua in a kickboxing match but guys like Stipe whose base is 'boxing' and who have a low level kicking game aren't exactly the most lethal.

Of course it is also a myth that all boxers have insane K.O. power and that boxers with 4oz gloves somehow equals=== 'you are dead with first punch'.

Boxers have crossed over to kickboxing and done alright. All you really need is kick defense. Much easier than grappling defense and kicking defense at the same time

 

[Deleted member 501827]

No.
Stipe kicks his ass;-)

In mma rules yeah but not boxing or kickboxing. Stipe is not a kicker. His standup even in mma is 99% boxing. Joshua would KO him.

 

[Seaside]

Boxers have crossed over to kickboxing and done alright. All you really need is kick defense. Much easier than grappling defense and kicking defense at the same time

Sources?

List of these boxers you speak of?

And yeah I agree. Grapping defense will take even top level athletes like 5 years of hardwork the UFC TUF they did with ex nfl and nba players proved that. Jon Jones and lesnar are top athletes but they still put in a few good years.

 

[beastman]

Mercer KO'd Sylvia, there's always a chance.

 

[Sharkey]

Thanks for taking the time to share your insight in a mature manner.


I have to disagree with your assessment of Rich Franklin. He was a very big star for the UFC, and one of my favorite fighters - ever... even till today. But the problem was that he simply couldn't beat Anderson Silva. God how I wish USADA was around in that era. Anyways, my personal feelings aside, the UFC has tremendous success with both Couture and Franklin. Hell, they even made a franklinweight and that would sell as the main-event. They could main-event Rich Franklin anywhere, and that arena would sell...

You'll find a lot of diehard Rich Franklin fans like myself lurking around sherdog.

Anyways, on point, being a firefighter is much different from being an all-American poster boy. The average man is not an all-American college star. The average man, can however, identify with being a firefighter. That's my opinion on it at least.


I'll tell you the real reason why they won't spend money on marketing Stipe, its because Stipe has been unhappy with the UFC since the Overeem fight, and is now leveraging his position against them for a bigger deal after finding out that the challenger made more money than him in their fight (which is fucking unfair IMO).

So, until that is resolved, they're not going to promote him on any level.

And its not because he doesn't have unique attributes- he's the most well rounded HW mixed martial artist in a very long time... possibly ever: Golden Gloves winner in boxing, NCAA wrestler...MMA champion with a chance of making history for most consecutive title defenses.

This is just a different era of MMA. The UFC under the Hollywood agency, wants angles... gimmicks, stories... 'talk'... and other TMZ shit. Stipe is not up for all of that. Hell, even GSP didn't fit their mold anymore - they told him they'd have to spend millions reintroducing him to the market (last year)... despite GSP being the top accumulated-PPV draw in UFC history. That humble and noble martial artist honor thing is gone... and so with that, yes, Stipe has nothing unique to offer the current UFC regime.


However, they could still surely promote him on multiple levels with the FACT that he's the most dangerous man on the planet. If they can convince people that Ronda Rousey is the best female athlete on the planet, they should have some success in making people believe that Stipe is the best fighter in the UFC at least, even if not in the entire world.



Stipe Miocic has 2 losses in his MMA career (as a HW), and is undefeated against Fire. BAM

Franklin was a star at the time, yes. But he was not nearly the star that Liddell, Couture, and Tito were at the time despite the UFC's best efforts to market him as such. Franklin drew pretty well for his time considering how limited the available PPV audience was then when compared to today (60%-70%), but even if he couldn't beat Silva he still wasn't drawing the money those other three guys did once they started losing also.

Anyways, These promotional philosophies that that the UFC are currently using are nothing new at all when it comes to the promotional game. It's not even something that is taken from the pro wrestling scene. It's actually one of the many promotional philosophies that Tex Rickard brought forth and used with so much success back over 100 years ago. He was able to identify that, while a fighter's ability inside the ring was an important factor, it was secondary to other factors involved in promoting. One of those being rooting interest and how a fighter can connect with the potential fanbase on a personal level. The larger fanbase that show up for a fight want to either root for or root against a fighter(s) rather than just see a good fight or a good display of ability. It's Rickard 101, and if you look up all his most successful promotional events (going back to Gans-Nelson in 1906) you can see that there was was a very clear good guy vs bad guy narrative being told in the promotion of the fight or there was a very clear ethnic divide. He did that by promoting the personalities and backgrounds of the fighters rather than trying to sell them as "the best ever" or other promotional tactics regarding skill level. He was the first one to do it on a larger scale and it's still in practice today regardless if it's in boxing, MMA, or pro wrestling. People want a clear definition on who to root for and on who to root against. Just like they did 100+ years ago.

A guy like Mayweather understands this promotional philosophy as well as anybody in the fight game nowadays, and he also understands another one of Rickard's main promotional tools that he came up with. As McGregor now does. You showcase big money, you attract big attention. You act like you're wealthy, you attract the wealthy. Basically you promote money and the result is you make money. That's been a promotional tactic since Rickard first put out that publicity photo of him standing in front of a big pile of gold bars for the first Gans-Nelson fight, and it still works today. It's worked in boxing forever, it's worked in pro wrestling (Gorgeous George, Ric Flair, etc), and it now works in MMA with McGregor.

Anyways, I'm getting off track here. But promoting a fighter's ability is a secondary promotional trait, and it always has been. It also doesn't help that the UFC and their broadcast team tries to promote nearly everyone on their roster as some kind of elite fighting machine. If Rogan and Co are talking up the #11 ranked contender as some kind of "killer" who can do almost everything so well (which they do), how is the casual fanbase supposed to differentiate between that #11 ranked guy and the champion of the division? They're not hearing a difference there and the casual fanbase doesn't usually have the ability to think independently for themselves and observe a difference in skill level. That's doing a disservice to guys like Mighty Mouse, Stipe, or any other champions of the division in the long run because the UFC tries to sell most of their fighters as being elite. While Stipe may have a unique ability as a fighter the UFC can't really sell him as having a unique ability to the casual fanbase (which is the one you're targeting) just because of the way they try to talk up all their fighters as being elite.

"This guy is a killer who does everything well." - so says the UFC

" Hey great. Put in him line with the other 100 guys you've said that about." - MMA fan

You can't sell a guy on his ability if you're trying to sell everybody on the roster on their ability at the same time. The casual fan is hearing from Rogan and Co similar descriptions of all the fighters, thus they largely all sound like one and the same.

 

[BamaBoy91]

Interesting

 

[Winbot]

He would get the shit kicked out of his legs and be helpless.

 

[rjmbrd]

So basically he wants a kickboxing match?

Came to say this.

He described that he'd be open to kickboxing.

The learning curve there is also fairly intense, but the talent pool is pretty thin right now. It isn't a well represented sport.

 

[Myrddin Wild]

He didn't say no TD's & GnP.

 

[SRN]

Some guys just have that "it" factor.

Stipe, does not


Like I said, if he keeps fighting like he did against JDS he will start to gather attention.


Problem is, I honestly don't think he's any better than the other guys at HW.. So he will likely lose soon.

I disagree, the "it" factor is what Conor has, that guy would be famous even if he was a car seller. lol It's natural and it comes easy to him. Everyone else needs to be "forced hyped". In Stipe's case is just weird, there's something about him that I'm unable to identify that just makes him meh who cares? I think UFC should be using the fact that he is a fucking fire man and hype the shit out of him as being a hero.

I absolutely think that Stipe has the 'it' factor. I pointed it out in another thread recently that Stipe has all the tools to be promoted as the everyday American 'hero'.

He's a firefighter, college baseball player, NCAA wrestler, Golden Gloves boxer, Cleveland's first champion, friends with LeBron James... currently has 4 first rounds KOs in a row against Arlovski, Werdum, Overeem, and JDS....

If he doesn't appear to have the 'it' factor it is because the UFC is clueless in marketing him. How hard can it be to market an American Firefighter who is a lovely down-to-earth humble guy, and happens to be scariest fighter on the planet when he steps into the cage?

Beats me why they don't want to invest in a proper PR team specifically for their HW champion

It's very weird maybe then don't believe he will last as a champ? I don't know. They should definitely use the fire man thing. Maybe tell him to grow a beard or a moustache? That usually helps to create a mystic.


Hey Stipe grow a beard, become the silent but approachable type, use a firefighter t-shirt wherever you go and keep KOing people. lol Thank me later.

 

[funksoulbrother]

Give him gokhan saki

 

[McGeezle]

I think he could easily be a champion in UFC. Not sure if any MMA heavyweights could avoid his punches

So you haven't learned anything since the early 90's

 

[Fight Professor]

So basically he wants a kickboxing match?

GnP would probably still be allowed.

 

[Sharkey]

I disagree, the "it" factor is what Conor has, that guy would be famous even if he was a car seller. lol It's natural and it comes easy to him. Everyone else needs to be "forced hyped". In Stipe's case is just weird, there's something about him that I'm unable to identify that just makes him meh who cares? I think UFC should be using the fact that he is a fucking fire man and hype the shit out of him as being a hero.


It's very weird maybe then don't believe he will last as a champ? I don't know. They should definitely use the fire man thing. Maybe tell him to grow a beard or a moustache? That usually helps to create a mystic.


Hey Stipe grow a beard, become the silent but approachable type, use a firefighter t-shirt wherever you go and keep KOing people. lol Thank me later.

 

[Cooliox]

Franklin was a star at the time, yes. But he was not nearly the star that Liddell, Couture, and Tito were at the time despite the UFC's best efforts to market him as such. Franklin drew pretty well for his time considering how limited the available PPV audience was then when compared to today (60%-70%), but even if he couldn't beat Silva he still wasn't drawing the money those other three guys did once they started losing also.

Anyways, These promotional philosophies that that the UFC are currently using are nothing new at all when it comes to the promotional game. It's not even something that is taken from the pro wrestling scene. It's actually one of the many promotional philosophies that Tex Rickard brought forth and used with so much success back over 100 years ago. He was able to identify that, while a fighter's ability inside the ring was an important factor, it was secondary to other factors involved in promoting. One of those being rooting interest and how a fighter can connect with the potential fanbase on a personal level. The larger fanbase that show up for a fight want to either root for or root against a fighter(s) rather than just see a good fight or a good display of ability. It's Rickard 101, and if you look up all his most successful promotional events (going back to Gans-Nelson in 1906) you can see that there was was a very clear good guy vs bad guy narrative being told in the promotion of the fight or there was a very clear ethnic divide. He did that by promoting the personalities and backgrounds of the fighters rather than trying to sell them as "the best ever" or other promotional tactics regarding skill level. He was the first one to do it on a larger scale and it's still in practice today regardless if it's in boxing, MMA, or pro wrestling. People want a clear definition on who to root for and on who to root against. Just like they did 100+ years ago.

A guy like Mayweather understands this promotional philosophy as well as anybody in the fight game nowadays, and he also understands another one of Rickard's main promotional tools that he came up with. As McGregor now does. You showcase big money, you attract big attention. You act like you're wealthy, you attract the wealthy. Basically you promote money and the result is you make money. That's been a promotional tactic since Rickard first put out that publicity photo of him standing in front of a big pile of gold bars for the first Gans-Nelson fight, and it still works today. It's worked in boxing forever, it's worked in pro wrestling (Gorgeous George, Ric Flair, etc), and it now works in MMA with McGregor.

Anyways, I'm getting off track here. But promoting a fighter's ability is a secondary promotional trait, and it always has been. It also doesn't help that the UFC and their broadcast team tries to promote nearly everyone on their roster as some kind of elite fighting machine. If Rogan and Co are talking up the #11 ranked contender as some kind of "killer" who can do almost everything so well (which they do), how is the casual fanbase supposed to differentiate between that #11 ranked guy and the champion of the division? They're not hearing a difference there and the casual fanbase doesn't usually have the ability to think independently for themselves and observe a difference in skill level. That's doing a disservice to guys like Mighty Mouse, Stipe, or any other champions of the division in the long run because the UFC tries to sell most of their fighters as being elite. While Stipe may have a unique ability as a fighter the UFC can't really sell him as having a unique ability to the casual fanbase (which is the one you're targeting) just because of the way they try to talk up all their fighters as being elite.

"This guy is a killer who does everything well." - so says the UFC

" Hey great. Put in him line with the other 100 guys you've said that about." - MMA fan

You can't sell a guy on his ability if you're trying to sell everybody on the roster on their ability at the same time. The casual fan is hearing from Rogan and Co similar descriptions of all the fighters, thus they largely all sound like one and the same.

Interesting.

Thanks for the perspective. Having grown up in Asia, in a culture that martial arts is part of the tradition, the "selling" part and all is very secondary... with respect being primary... hence the whole Wai Khru ceremony in muaythai. Also why I'm a huge fan of Fedor and GSP.

Or even Aldo and Anderson before they got mistreated by the UFC, and turned into parodies of themselves...

Anyways, while I agree with you that showmanship is an important sell, especially in the western market... I don't think it should be the 'only' sell. I reckon Stipe Miocic ought to be sellable based on being the HW champion, alone... but with the UFC not keen on marketing skills and talent and only being proficient in marketing gimmicks (inability to market DJ, Cruz (now Cody), Prime Aldo...etc)... then this is going to be and ongoing problem.

 

[wilKO]

The Reem would KILL mr Joshua in a kickboxing fight,

Coin toss. One jab from Joshua who is even bigger and more physically impressive and the Reem would literally die twice.

 

[Kvolcom]

So you haven't learned anything since the early 90's

I love how kickboxers like Wonderboy can learn to defend takedowns but no way an elite athlete in boxing could learn lol BJJ can learn how to stike, wrestlers can learn BJJ but boxers well they will only ever be good at boxing.

The hate mma fans have towards boxing is so funny sometimes

 

[McGeezle]

I love how kickboxers like Wonderboy can learn to defend takedowns but no way an elite athlete in boxing could learn lol

The hate mma fans have towards boxing is so funny sometimes

Well it's a pretty fuckin big 'if' factor. Just because Wonderboy managed to do it you can't just brush it off as a simple tweak/non-issue

 

[Kvolcom]

Well it's a pretty fuckin big 'if' factor. Just because Wonderboy managed to do it you can't just brush it off as a simple tweak/non-issue

The athletes in Boxing are way superior to Kickboxing.

Only makes sense it would be easier for them to pick up the other martial arts over some wrestler or BJJ or kickboxing guy who is competing against inferior athletes in comparison

 

[campbecc]

Stipe doesn't exactly go for submissions anyway.