Anderson in his prime was far and away the best MW fighter ever... Maybe best fighter ever.

[Dirge]

Silva had some bad losses early in his career and then later (getting KO'd by Weidman), or being pummelled by and almost losing to Sonnen, and some bizarre showings (his fights against Cote and Maia for example) that take some of the shine off his career. He is without a doubt the greatest middleweight fighter of his time but then again he never fought guys like Rockhold, Jacare, Romero,Mousasi, etc. Even at his best he would be in deep shit against them.

MW was a pretty shallow division while Silva ruled it, it was only near the end of his career that it really picked up in terms of talent and by that point he had already lost to Weidman twice.

Then he goes and fails twice for steroids which basically throws his entire legacy into the shitter.

 

[moreorless87]

Silva had some bad losses early in his career and then later (getting KO'd by Weidman), or being pummelled by and almost losing to Sonnen, and some bizarre showings (his fights against Cote and Maia for example) that take some of the shine off his career. He is without a doubt the greatest middleweight fighter of his time but then again he never fought guys like Rockhold, Jacare, Romero,Mousasi, etc. Even at his best he would be in deep shit against them.

MW was a pretty shallow division while Silva ruled it, it was only near the end of his career that it really picked up in terms of talent and by that point he had already lost to Weidman twice.

Then he goes and fails twice for steroids which basically throws his entire legacy into the shitter.

Cote I think showed the issue I mentioned, when Anderson tried to lead in that fight he was getting countered so he had no choice but to dance and wait for counters.

Doing a RJJ showboat does not make you RJJ.

 

[CereserBr]

Silva had some bad losses early in his career and then later (getting KO'd by Weidman), or being pummelled by and almost losing to Sonnen, and some bizarre showings (his fights against Cote and Maia for example) that take some of the shine off his career. He is without a doubt the greatest middleweight fighter of his time but then again he never fought guys like Rockhold, Jacare, Romero,Mousasi, etc. Even at his best he would be in deep shit against them.

MW was a pretty shallow division while Silva ruled it, it was only near the end of his career that it really picked up in terms of talent and by that point he had already lost to Weidman twice.

Then he goes and fails twice for steroids which basically throws his entire legacy into the shitter.

To tell u the truth... Until losing to the Chris... Silva dominated everybody, minus Chael. I met UFC MW fighter Vitor Miranda a few years ago and talked to him about the Silva Chael fight... my input was that Silva was in need of a great fight, coming from some disapointing ones (criticsm from Dana too), so Anderson let Chael kinda of beat him up, just to finish him on the later rounds, lol... Miranda was kinda shocked with my lecture of the fight... he was telling, no, Chael is really , really good, and was dominating... BUt i kept saying that was just Anderson clowing, lol

 

[Mamou]

Striking yes, other ares he was considerably lacking to say he was P4P best

Plus primarily fighting guys stylistically suited to him (brawlers, 1D bjj guys, jack of all trades but not elite types) helped 'the matrix' narrative also

Very skilled though, but overall he had holes that other elite fighters with the right styles would have / could have exploited

How is this any different than say, GSP?

 

[Dirge]

How is this any different than say, GSP?

What holes does GSP have in his game? He set the record for most winning rounds in the UFC for a reason. Silva was relatively easy to take down, had a barely average ground game off his back (2 sub wins his entire career, one against Sonnen who has been subbed 9 times...). What made Silva stand out was his striking and clinch game.

GSP on the other hand has excellent standup, a great ground game and is likely the best MMA wrestler to ever compete. Plus is fight IQ is off the charts.

GSP has only two losses, both of which he avenged in dominant fashion. His only fight that he came close to losing was against a heavily juiced Hendricks (no wonder GSP was pushing so hard for extra testing against him). As soon as USADA went live, Hendricks career went to shit. Safe to say a clean hendricks would have been handled easily by GSP.

 

[Mamou]

What holes does GSP have in his game? He set the record for most winning rounds in the UFC for a reason. Silva was relatively easy to take down, had a barely average ground game off his back (2 sub wins his entire career, one against Sonnen who has been subbed 9 times...). What made Silva stand out was his striking and clinch game.

GSP on the other hand has excellent standup, a great ground game and is likely the best MMA wrestler to ever compete. Plus is fight IQ is off the charts.

GSP has only two losses, both of which he avenged in dominant fashion. His only fight that he came close to losing was against a heavily juiced Hendricks (no wonder GSP was pushing so hard for extra testing against him). As soon as USADA went live, Hendricks career went to shit. Safe to say a clean hendricks would have been handled easily by GSP.

This comment was directed toward his competition, not GSP himself.

Thanks for your input though, I didn't know any of that...

 

[Dirge]

This comment was directed toward his competition, not GSP himself.

Thanks for your input though, I didn't know any of that...

No need for sarcasm..I was responding to your question.

 

[Selukrid612]

To tell u the truth... 2006 Anderson steam rolls all these guys, lol. He was on another level he was like 2005 Shogun or 2011 Jones or 2003 Fedor... a different beast.

Totally disagree with that, Anderson continued to improve with time, especially his TDD. If 2006 Anderson met current Chris Weidman he would get obliterated on the mat. By time he actually did meet Chris his TDD was quite good, but he had probably declined in other areas.

 

[Mamou]

No need for sarcasm..I was responding to your question.

But you weren't. If you read what I put and what I highlighted, then there would've been no need for your post.

But instead you thought I was discrediting GSP's fight skills and you felt the need to defend him

 

[Brit_Brawler]

IMHO, from his UFC debut in 2006 till Jones beatdown of Shogun in 2011... Silva was P4P num 1.

Simply amazing fighter, super skilled and vicious finisher.

Shame he had to use Peds to gain some edge

U guys may post Anderson's gifs and images on here plz.

No amount of juice made Anderson matrix all those fools. He’s still the man imo and always will be.

 

[Brit_Brawler]

Stylistically suited? During his prime?
Leben (brawler)
(green) Maia (1D bjj)
Lutter (1D bjj)
Leites (1D bjj)
Marquardt (jack of all trades, not elite)
Okami (jack of all trades, not elite)
Cote (brawler, jack of all trades, not elite)
Irvin (brawler)
Bonner (brawler, jack of all trades, not elite)
Rivera (brawler)
Fryklund (brawler, jack of all trades, not elite)

Even Forrest was tailor made, but I wont list him, as he was a good fighter and 1 fight removed from champ

That was the competition in the ufc at that time. He couldn’t do anymore. They lined them up and he knocked them down.

 

[Bubblun]

The competition during his reign was nowhere as good as today, but Anderson is truly special, so creative.
Anderson Silva revolutionized mma striking and made everybody aware of the possibilities and variety of techniques one can do during a fight, that's his real legacy.

 

[Roads55]

Stylistically suited? During his prime?
Leben (brawler)
(green) Maia (1D bjj)
Lutter (1D bjj)
Leites (1D bjj)
Marquardt (jack of all trades, not elite)
Okami (jack of all trades, not elite)
Cote (brawler, jack of all trades, not elite)
Irvin (brawler)
Bonner (brawler, jack of all trades, not elite)
Rivera (brawler)
Fryklund (brawler, jack of all trades, not elite)

Even Forrest was tailor made, but I wont list him, as he was a good fighter and 1 fight removed from champ

sorry i should of highlighted your post. I meant who at the time would have had the style/skills to beat him. a lot of the fighters you listed were elite at the time. just because mma has changed so much since then it doesn't change that fact. people say the same about mighty mouse competition but if they weren't so dominant then their opposition would magically be a lot better in a lot of people eyes. that's not to say that some weren't elite but MW was stacked back then. you missed rich franklin of your list too.

 

[Magnum1978]

sorry i should of highlighted your post. I meant who at the time would have had the style/skills to beat him. a lot of the fighters you listed were elite at the time. just because mma has changed so much since then it doesn't change that fact. people say the same about mighty mouse competition but if they weren't so dominant then their opposition would magically be a lot better in a lot of people eyes. that's not to say that some weren't elite but MW was stacked back then. you missed rich franklin of your list too.

Yeah I missed Franklin because I thought he wasn't one of the overmatched opponents.

That was the competition in the ufc at that time. He couldn’t do anymore. They lined them up and he knocked them down.

Yeah nothing wrong with that, I agree. I was just pointing out the facts of his opponents. Some people get a good run with good conditions AS WELL as being awesome. Not saying Anderson wasn't elite and amazing, just to consider these things when musing p4p greatness etc.

He submitted "1D BJJ" Lutter. What does brawler/jack of all trades even mean? He doesn't get credit unless his opponents were all simultaneously K1 champs, ADCC champs, and olympic wrestling medalists? They were the best guys in around at the time.

Okami was 12-2 and was around the top of the division for years, so not sure how that isn't elite. He also beat Franklin, Vitor, Hendo, Chael. Why didn't you bother mentioning any of them?

I didn't mention those guys as they WERE great opponents and not the overmatched opponents that offered little threat (the whole point of my list). Okami has never been an elite fighter, no matter how much koolaid the UFC gave out. His best win is.... Nate Marquardt? Solid gatekeeper. A jack of all trades is a guy average in many areas but not elite in any.

How is this any different than say, GSP?

Probably a critique you could level at GSP also, but to a lesser degress - and GSP has beaten more style threats over the course, he fought many more very strong/elite wrestlers (Shields, Hughes, Kos, Fitch, Big Rig) plus good/strong strikers (Alves/Condit/Diaz/Penn) and most of the fighters were strong/threatening in more than one area either BJJ/Striking (Condit, Penn, Diaz), BJJ/Wrestling (Hughes/Shields) or Wrestling/striking (Big Rig). WW was a tougher stylistic test to the champ compared to MW relatively comparing Anderson's and GSP's run through them.

Due to GSP being strong EVERYWHERE he could always keep the fight to the area the opponents were weakest and picked the path of least resistance, rather than fight fire with fire, and you could criticise him for that. Anderson on the other hand had most opponents never being able to use their strengths as they were overmatched in anderson's strong suit (striking) or didn't have the skills to expose weaknesses (strong BJJ, but lacked wrestling or strong wrestling but no sub skills)

 

[Mamou]

Yeah I missed Franklin because I thought he wasn't one of the overmatched opponents.


Yeah nothing wrong with that, I agree. I was just pointing out the facts of his opponents. Some people get a good run with good conditions AS WELL as being awesome. Not saying Anderson wasn't elite and amazing, just to consider these things when musing p4p greatness etc.


I didn't mention those guys as they WERE great opponents and not the overmatched opponents that offered little threat (the whole point of my list). Okami has never been an elite fighter, no matter how much koolaid the UFC gave out. His best win is.... Nate Marquardt? Solid gatekeeper. A jack of all trades is a guy average in many areas but not elite in any.


Probably a critique you could level at GSP also, but to a lesser degress - and GSP has beaten more style threats over the course, he fought many more very strong/elite wrestlers (Shields, Hughes, Kos, Fitch, Big Rig) plus good/strong strikers (Alves/Condit/Diaz/Penn) and most of the fighters were strong/threatening in more than one area either BJJ/Striking (Condit, Penn, Diaz), BJJ/Wrestling (Hughes/Shields) or Wrestling/striking (Big Rig). WW was a tougher stylistic test to the champ compared to MW relatively comparing Anderson's and GSP's run through them.

Due to GSP being strong EVERYWHERE he could always keep the fight to the area the opponents were weakest and picked the path of least resistance, rather than fight fire with fire, and you could criticise him for that. Anderson on the other hand had most opponents never being able to use their strengths as they were overmatched in anderson's strong suit (striking) or didn't have the skills to expose weaknesses (strong BJJ, but lacked wrestling or strong wrestling but no sub skills)

Lol so Maia is a 1Dbjj guy but Shields and Serra weren't? Hughes, Kos, and Fitch aren't 1D wrestlers? Alves and Hardy weren't 1D strikers?

You're grasping at straws trying to diminish Anderson's competition while someone like GSP fought guys with similar skillsets

 

[LockardTheGOAT]

Anderson Silva was a bum. He was just less of a bum than the other bums that he fought in his division at the time.

It's no coincidence that he's went on an impressively bad losing streak ever since the competition got better. No one who gets beat on for twenty-four minutes of a twenty-five minute fight by Chael Sonnen deserves to have the GOAT label anywhere near their name.

 

[Magnum1978]

Lol so Maia is a 1Dbjj guy but Shields and Serra weren't? Hughes, Kos, and Fitch aren't 1D wrestlers? Alves and Hardy weren't 1D strikers?

You're grasping at straws trying to diminish Anderson's competition while someone like GSP fought guys with similar skillsets

Maia right now I wouldn't consider a 1D BJJ guy, but I would when Anderson fought him, as well as being undersized.

Alves is more of a jack of all trades but at the time was pretty feared, he was 10-1 prior to GSP just beating solid wrestlers Hughes and Kos. At least as good as someone like Okami comparatively. Hardy I didn't mention, I agree he's 1D and had zero chance against GSP. Serra I didn't mention.

Hughes is absolutely not 1D, having a very good ground game. Shields also. Fitch also.

I'm not grasping at straws I'm just suggesting that Anderson's run was favoured by having minimal other guys in the division at the time that were lesser likely able to expose his weaknesses, or do anything with them. The demographics suited his style.

If he was instead fed a steady diet of say, middleweight versions of Shields, Hughes, Kos, Fitch, Hendricks, etc. then perhaps he would have not had the success he had. That's all I'm saying.

 

[Kowboy On Sherdog]

The GOAT. To bad his Legacy is tainted now. Some of the best finishes in MMA history. And the Leben fight... Thought he was going back to Japan to face easier opponents. Haha

 

[tenniswhiz]

MW Great but he always fought guys who were suited for his style, then again it wasn't his fault, that's what the MW division was at that time. Once age and new more deadlier contenders appeared those holes were more predominant.

Disagree...

I think he would have always lost a round to Weidman but would have finished him off after the first.
He always lost the first round against wrestlers.

Having the cardio to aggressively chain wrestle TD for 5 rounds is impossible.
Guys like Romero and GSP set their TD’s up in the standup.

I also don’t see Bisping hanging with him 8 years ago, despite what happened when they fought.
Same with Brunson.

I don’t think the division is that much better.
Hendo destroyed Bisping back then.
Vitor wrecked both Bisping and Rockhold.

 

[truthisfreedom]

Career juicers can't be goats.

Please show me evidence of his "career juicing". You know, before he snapped his leg in half.