Ancient Civilzation Conversation: Shermer, Hancock, Carlson - JRE

[andnowweknow]

Probably my favorite episode. I was impressed with Shermer admitting when he was in the wrong. Good shit. Now he needs to get Carlson on with the coyote guy.

Shermer seemed really reasonable at some levels but was clearly out of his depth. Carlson and Dan Flores would be awesome!

 

[Slippery Kantus]

Lmao Hancock hateeeees that geologist.

 

[SSOTO]

I've listened to about an hour of this.

I enjoy Graham Hancocks books but he can be fairly painful to listen to. He seriously needs to get over the fact that archaeologists haven't got time for him. He sounds a bit upset lol. Usually he seems pretty cool. Carlson on the other hand, though he hasn't said much, is just calmly making his argument without trying to score points. Cool guy.

Sterner seems to be making the occams razor argument, the evidence can be more simply explained than proposing some unknown civilization that handed down it's advanced ways. I dont know a lot about it other than what i've read in Hancocks books but Shermers points seems fair imo. Hancock is speculating and he admits as much.

Towards the end it becomes more clear why Hancock is so defensive. Its revealed that Shermers geologist buddy has some pretty insulting comments about Hancock and even refers to him as con man in an online blog. I was also shocked how easily triggered Hancock seemed to be. He's usually very mellow.

 

[TrippleOG]

I don't really believe in ancient civilizations that were lost or geologically covered over.

 

[sh1tehawke]

Towards the end it becomes more clear why Hancock is so defensive. Its revealed that Shermers geologist buddy has some pretty insulting comments about Hancock and even refers to him as con man in an online blog. I was also shocked how easily triggered Hancock seemed to be. He's usually very mellow.

Yeah I was surprised too. Was slightly embarrassing. Shermer was being fairly reasonable imo, surely Hancock has heard worse before. I wonder if this was his chance to hit back at his naysayers in front of a sympathetic audience, he was certainly going all guns blazing.

 

[andnowweknow]

I don't really believe in ancient civilizations that were lost or geologically covered over.

Convinced me!

 

[andnowweknow]

Yeah I was surprised too. Was slightly embarrassing. Shermer was being fairly reasonable imo, surely Hancock has heard worse before. I wonder if this was his chance to hit back at his naysayers in front of a sympathetic audience, he was certainly going all guns blazing.

Hancock has taken enormous amounts of shit and derision over the years, personal attacks beyond what would be called for even if he was a charlatan (which he's clearly not). IMO it is beyond argument that his research and work has been proven merit worthy despite the fact he hasn't been correct in the minutia. His general premise is now infinitely more saleable with the work of the Holocene impact group of scientists.

His point to Shermer regarding the synchronicity between Plato's dating of the subsidence of "Atlantis" and the geological dating of melt water pulse 1b at 11,600 ybp is impossible to ignore in conjunction with the other items mentioned regarding megafaunal extinction etc...

 

[ReAnimator Reagan]

namely that there was never advancement in human civilization to a high level until modern sumer and Egypt DESPITE the fact we are at least 180k years old as a modern human species...that makes zero sense

How so??? If there were all these older civilizations where is their metal structures, their radioactive waste, why are we to believe they would be wipe completely off the earth. I think it is your opinion that makes zero sense.

 

[Fork]

Shermer seemed really reasonable at some levels but was clearly out of his depth. Carlson and Dan Flores would be awesome!

i think the issue was that shermer was more on there to defend the process that these ideas go through, and "orthodoxy" in that sense. he's not as familiar with these places and all of this research as graham and carlson so he was more comfortable talking about the process that theories have to go through than discounting the theories themselves (although he did some of that). he mentioned familiarizing himself with the specific issues a bit to prepare for the show, but no matter what i think of their theories, that preparation can't compare with the amount of time hancock and carlson have looked at them.

 

[andnowweknow]

How so??? If there were all these older civilizations where is their metal structures, their radioactive waste, why are we to believe they would be wipe completely off the earth. I think it is your opinion that makes zero sense.

You have a distinct misunderstanding of the time scales involved, the level of sophistication of the "lost civilization" being purported and the general properties of how metals deteriorate over time.

 

[nanika]

can we get a transcript? i dont wanna listen to these guys debate this shit but i am interested in the subject matter.

 

[andnowweknow]

i think the issue was that shermer was more on there to defend the process that these ideas go through, and "orthodoxy" in that sense. he's not as familiar with these places and all of this research as graham and carlson so he was more comfortable talking about the process that theories have to go through than discounting the theories themselves (although he did some of that). he mentioned familiarizing himself with the specific issues a bit to prepare for the show, but no matter what i think of their theories, that preparation can't compare with the amount of time hancock and carlson have looked at them.

Well sure, all agreed. But the other problem for Shermer is that he didn't quite understand the people he would be debating. I think on some level he didn't know how generally intelligent and we'll researched both guys are. Professional high level egyptologists would have a very difficult time dealing with Hancock on Egypt and as you saw in the discussion Carlson is able to more hold his own with well credentialed tenured Geologists.

In brief, Shermer made the mistake of comparing Hancock to guys like Michael Cremo.

 

[ReAnimator Reagan]

You have a distinct misunderstanding of the time scales involved, the level of sophistication of the "lost civilization" being purported and the general properties of how metals deteriorate over time.

Lol, right.

How about nuclear waste??? You know what would happen if people all just stopped tending the nuke power plants?
Get ready for SCIENCE!!!

 

[andnowweknow]

Lol, right.

How about nuclear waste??? You know what would happen if people all just stopped tending the nuke power plants?
Get ready for SCIENCE!!!

Are you in the right thread? Who suggested a nuclear powered civilization?

The suggestion is something between the level of the minoans and the 17th century. But with a different direction altogether.

 

[ReAnimator Reagan]

Are you in the right thread? Who suggested a nuclear powered civilization?

The suggestion is something between the level of the minoans and the 17th century. But with a different direction altogether.

Okay, are you trolling me or simple??? You went on about how can there not be any high civilization before Egypt which is Early Dynastic Period 3050–2686 BC.
Then I say why is there nothing left....I thought you meant a real advanced civilization like we have now only say 14000 years ago so I gave my answer.

Now, you say something between minoans 2600 to 1100 BC and the 17th century....and I would say Rome and Greece might fit in there.

typing this out, you really don't have anything interesting to say but are pulling a scyther....have fun.

 

[andnowweknow]

Okay, are you trolling me or simple??? You went on about how can there not be any high civilization before Egypt which is Early Dynastic Period 3050–2686 BC.
Then I say why is there nothing left....I thought you meant a real advanced civilization like we have now only say 14000 years ago so I gave my answer.

Now, you say something between minoans 2600 to 1100 BC and the 17th century....and I would say Rome and Greece might fit in there.

typing this out, you really don't have anything interesting to say but are pulling a scyther....have fun.

One thing is simple, you thought wrong. Further to your distinct misunderstanding of what we are talking about here, the Minoans are more advanced than many groups of people on earth today. And yes, I mean technologically.

 

[TrippleOG]

any time spent hoping that some "lost city of Atlantis " exists is a waste of resources and human knowledge . there was no city of fucking Atlantis . There is no city of Atlantis or any giant palace type city that was buried over.

 

[andnowweknow]

any time spent hoping that some "lost city of Atlantis " exists is a waste of resources and human knowledge . there was no city of fucking Atlantis . There is no city of Atlantis or any giant palace type city that was buried over.

From a person who totally buys into Hancock and Carlson and their ideas, I completely agree with you.