Amidst the lack of PPV draws, do you think USADA/the UFC will play it nice with Jon 'Bones' Jones?

[dim_]

An independent contracting partner cannot leave you contractually unemployed and take your business off the market. That would be an insane (and unfair) power that no judge would allow. .

As I said before, thousands of athletes have received bans prohibiting them from competing in sport. In fact, the vast majority of those have been banned not only from the sport they usually compete in, but in fact ANY sport

Please show me examples of where some regional US court have reversed these bans? Or examples where a US court has over ruled a USADA suspension or suspension from another WADA signatory.

Competing in sport is 1) Not a job and 2) Not a god given right - If you cheat in sport, every sporting promoter is within their rights to say "No, you cant compete, you are a cheat"..

An athlete banned from competing in sport for cheating simply has to find another source of income.. hes not "unemployable".. he can get a regular job like everyone else. Sure, he loses out on his sporting income but he should have thought about that..

Like i say, show me a single instance of a US court overruling a decision by an anti doping agency that is a signatory to the wada code.

Nobody is preventing Lance Armstrong from making a living, he just cant do it winning bike races. Nobody prevented Marion Jones making a living, she just cant do it by competing in athletics. For a year or so Sharapova had to find an income outside of tennis tournaments.. thats the price you pay

 

[Otto!]

Better to give him 4 years. You know, repeat offender and all...

 

[savemgs]

The UFC can't get rid of USADA, but they can direct USADA away from their star fighters. USADA is not working independently from the UFC, they are contracted, so the UFC can make stipulations.

It makes NO SENSE being anti-science and technology in a sport prone to injuries. If the Olympics want to be science and technology free, let them. But major entertainment sports should do WHATEVER it takes to make sure the best athletes are competing.

Being anti-science and technology is pure ignorance if you ask me. LOL

The issue is only in America people care about the use of steroids. In the fact of the matter is most people don't care.

 

[dim_]

The issue is only in America people care about the use of steroids. In the fact of the matter is most people don't care.

I would say its exactly the opposite.

In europe doping is a hot issue, and I would say a massive majority of sports fans are opposed to it.

Whereas our view of america, much like Russia is that people there are pro-ped

 

[giusti825]

As I said before, thousands of athletes have received bans prohibiting them from competing in sport. In fact, the vast majority of those have been banned not only from the sport they usually compete in, but in fact ANY sport

Please show me examples of where some regional US court have reversed these bans? Or examples where a US court has over ruled a USADA suspension or suspension from another WADA signatory.

Competing in sport is 1) Not a job and 2) Not a god given right - If you cheat in sport, every sporting promoter is within their rights to say "No, you cant compete, you are a cheat"..

An athlete banned from competing in sport for cheating simply has to find another source of income.. hes not "unemployable".. he can get a regular job like everyone else. Sure, he loses out on his sporting income but he should have thought about that..

Like i say, show me a single instance of a US court overruling a decision by an anti doping agency that is a signatory to the wada code.

This isnt about whether or not Jones cheated.....it is a completely independent matter regarding independent contractors in entertainment.

If the UFC has no intention of offering a fighter fights, there is no need for the contract.

Jones would still be able to compete in 90% of the world.

An independent contracting partner can structure an agreement 'you can ONLY work with me'

they cannot structure an agreement 'you cannot work for me or anyone else and im not paying you.'

Thats an insane abuse of power that no judge would uphold.

If the ufc wont offer jones fights due to their own conflicts of interest with the athletic commissions and retaining their status as a sanctioned promoter, they have absolutely zero business trying to enforce an exclusivity clause.

Jones could still easily compete in europe or russia with little to no problem.

There is no real world sanctioning body for mma and USADA is only interested in the UFC.

No way in hell does a judge tell an independent contracting partner that they are allowed to choose an independent contractors job for the next four years.....thats asinine.

People still have a right to choose where they will live and what theyll do for a living. Especially in the absence of compensation.

If Jones is given 4 years at his hearing in February, he will be back in action by the end of the summer under a different banner.

The UFC is only one promotion. If they have no intention of offering fights to a fighter for such a long period of time, the fighter would be well within his rights to seek employment somewhere else.

Once again, its fine to use exclusivity clauses to do business as there is something the contractor is getting in return....in this case compensation....

You take away the compensation, and the clause becomes ridiculously one sided. Clauses get viewed on an individual basis for fairness when evaluated by courts. Telling someone 'you cant be employed by anyone on earth in your chosen profession for the next four years' is NOT how exclusivity clauses work.

If Miley Cyrus had an issue with a concert promoter, he doesnt get to say 'fuck whoever else would hire you, you can flip burgers for the next 4 years, but im not paying you a dime, and you cant work for anyone else.'

Jones is not an employee and he sure as hell isnt a slave....

 

[dim_]

Jones would still be able to compete in 90% of the world.
.

But why the fuck should he be allowed to?

If Justin Gatlin tests positive at a US Track meet in the US, if he cheats, is he just banned from track meets in teh US? No, hes banned from competing in any sport for the duration of his ban.

If Chris Froome tests positive at a race in Spain, is he just banned from racing in Spain? or just in races held by that organiser? No, hes banned from competing in all sport for the duration of his ban.

If Paula Radcliffe wins the Boston marathon and then tests positive, is she Just banned from competing in Boston? Is she just banned from competing in events organised by teh same body that organises the Boston Marathon? NO, SHE IS BANNED FROM COMPETING IN ALL SPORT FOR THE DURATION OF HER BAN

Why should it be any different for Jones?

No way in hell does a judge tell an independent contracting partner that they are allowed to choose an independent contractors job for the next four years.....thats asinine..

Again, find me a single example where a judge has overridden the decision of a sporting body.

If a tennis player is banned for 2 years for doping, guess what, they cant compete in tennis for two years. Anywhere.

They can work in a restaurant, they can be a builder, they can be a fireman, a postman or woman, they can do any job they like.

but compete in sport when tehy have been found guilty of cheating? No. They lost that privalege

Thats an insane abuse of power that no judge would uphold.
.

Find me a single incident where a judge has reversed the decision of a sporting body. Ive asked this four times now.

If its something no judge would accept there must be multiple instances of precedent.

If Jones is given 4 years at his hearing in February,

There is no date set for his USADA hearing. And we wont know till it happens unless Jones team make it public beforehand.

his CSAC hearing is set for february, but he wont get more than a year from CSAC










And when all said and done, If he didnt dope in the first place it wouldnt be an issue.

There is only ONE person responsible for the mess he is now in, and thats Jones

 

[giusti825]

But why the fuck should he be allowed to?

Because first and foremost, USADA is not an industry standard. Its only the standard in one of hundreds of promotions around the world.

Secondly, the decision of whether or not to do business with Jones should be left to the promotions who would do business with him. Who knows, maybe no promotion will want to be associated with him, but I strongly doubt that.

If Justin Gatlin tests positive at a US Track meet in the US, if he cheats, is he just banned from track meets in teh US? No, hes banned from competing in any sport for the duration of his ban.

If Chris Froome tests positive at a race in Spain, is he just banned from racing in Spain? or just in races held by that organiser? No, hes banned from competing in all sport for the duration of his ban.

If Paula Radcliffe wins the Boston marathon and then tests positive, is she Just banned from competing in Boston? Is she just banned from competing in events organised by teh same body that organises the Boston Marathon? NO, SHE IS BANNED FROM COMPETING IN ALL SPORT FOR THE DURATION OF HER BAN

Why should it be any different for Jones?

These are all globally well-regulated competitions with global sanctioning authorities. Where there is a uniform standard for all athletes competing.

Combat sports contracts are more akin to entertainment contracts then they are to globally regulated sports, and as such, should be governed that way by courts and legislative bodies.

Again, find me a single example where a judge has overridden the decision of a sporting body.

USADA is not a sporting body its a private anti-doping company. The UFC isn't a globally recognized, government sanctioned sporting body. They are basically an independent event organizer.

If a tennis player is banned for 2 years for doping, guess what, they cant compete in tennis for two years. Anywhere.

Once again, these are sports with globally recognized authorities. In MMA, this does not exist.

They can work in a restaurant, they can be a builder, they can be a fireman, a postman or woman, they can do any job they like.

And Mariah Carey can flip bergers. This is irrelavent. Private companies dont get the power to bar people from employment without a government sanctioned power to do so.

but compete in sport when tehy have been found guilty of cheating? No. They lost that privalege

Having the authority to take that privilege is kind of whats at issue here. If there was a real 'World Association of Mixed Martial Arts' that had a uniform standard for infractions, this would be a different scenario. But giving a private company, who directly benefits from an athlete/entertainers performance in a sporting event the sole authority on whether or not an athlete can compete in any other event around the world is bullshit. If they want to shelf him, they should have to pay him.

Find me a single incident where a judge has reversed the decision of a sporting body. Ive asked this four times now.

Show me an example of an entertainment event organizer being able to tell an entertainer that they cant do their show for four years with any other event organizer on earth, without paying them. You wont find that either. Though im pretty sure i could find an example similar to what you're looking for, it would likely be from the entertainment industry or WWE, as the contracts there bear much more similarity to combat sports contracts.

If its something no judge would accept there must be multiple instances of precedent.

Im certain ill find some and post them back here.

There is no date set for his USADA hearing. And we wont know till it happens unless Jones team make it public beforehand.

his CSAC hearing is set for february, but he wont get more than a year from CSAC

I think he'll get 2 years from the CSAC, but that doesn't matter much. Its really only a problem if he gets more than 2 years from USADA.

and when all said and done, If he didnt dope in the first place it wouldnt be an issue.

There is only ONE person responsible for the mess he is now in, and thats Jones

Once again, this doesn't matter. What matters is whether a private contracting entity can tell a partner that they are basically unemployed for four years based on arbitrary, non-industry standards chosen by the contracting entity.

 

[giusti825]

Besides Dimspace's numerous points, you're also missing another KEY point: Jones agreed to abide by the rules (UFC's Code of Conduct and the UFC Anti-Doping Policy). He agreed to follow the rules then chose to break them, and you think a court is going to take HIS side?

Absolutely.

 

[Money509]

Hes not even going to serve a suspension most likely.

 

[dim_]

Hes not even going to serve a suspension most likely.

and what leads you to this conclusion pray tell?

 

[lostdog000]

well they let brock and cyborg roid, so why not let the best fighter in the ufc do it too?

 

[Dbreiden83080]

Besides Dimspace's numerous points, you're also missing another KEY point: Jones agreed to abide by the rules (UFC's Code of Conduct and the UFC Anti-Doping Policy). He agreed to follow the rules then chose to break them, and you think a court is going to take HIS side?

Depends on the severity of the punishment and how much money he is willing to spend to fight it. High priced and motivated lawyers are game changers.. Most people can't afford to really fight it.

 

[DaGenius]

The only punishment that would look suspect would be if he only got 1 year. 2 years or more would be fine and life/mma would go on.

 

[Rizzo]

Demetrius Johnson? Lmao JJ is at least 2 fold as talented as him, and that is a fact

You should probably look up the word fact in the dictionary before attempting to use it in a sentence.

Jones is getting two years unless somehow he miracously passes that B test.

 

[P4PSHERGOAT]

I would say its exactly the opposite.

In europe doping is a hot issue, and I would say a massive majority of sports fans are opposed to it.

Whereas our view of america, much like Russia is that people there are pro-ped

But it’s illegal here at least. If we where “pro PED” or whatever we wouldn’t even have a need for USADA but the UFC was pressured by American media to get better testing. Isn’t steroids and shit legal in some European countries?

 

[Jibsta69]

Even if they just give him a slap on the wrist he'll probably fuck up again.

 

[GSP_37]

Read the article again. There is no evidence of secret testing pool or that anyone has ever avoided testing.

There is just the potential for ufc to expempt a returning fighter from the six month return to pool period

Since when is "no evidence" the same as shady shit wasn't pulled by UFC? Most people wouldn't even know about it. The article said a fighter could be on or off, on or off the testing roster and no one would know about it. How does Ronda not get randomly tested for a year without declaring retirement?

 

[dim_]

Since when is "no evidence" the same as shady shit wasn't pulled by UFC? Most people wouldn't even know about it. The article said a fighter could be on or off, on or off the testing roster and no one would know about it. How does Ronda not get randomly tested for a year without declaring retirement?

Ronda has almost definitely left the testing pool.

That is not an issue at all

The only time it becomes an issue is if on her return the ufc grant her an exemption from the six month rtp.

Until that happens, nothing shady has happened.

There's is merely the potential for the ufc to grant that waiver


But it's a huge leap to go from that to somehow jones getting let off which isn't even something either the ufc or USADA will decide anyway.

Will be mclaren group make that decision

 

[LiveFreeorDie]

And it would be the first supplement EVER to be contaminated with Turinabol (Where it wasnt obvious from the labelling or ingredients)

If Jones team find a genuine, non high-risk supplement, contaminated with Turinabol it will be a world first..

Do you even Joe Rogan?

 

[LiveFreeorDie]

Last time it took all of a couple of weeks to find, submit, and test the dick pills. There are only so many supplements, and ZERO that Jones declared on his Doping Control Form at the time the sample was taken. All of which is moot though considering a tainted supplement doesn't get him off the hook.

It wasn't that difficult last time, Jones turned in fake labels and tried some genuine BS and got caught. It ended up showing he ordered clomid itself because he is a fucking idiot. He should have been banned for 4 years for trying to cover up his clomid use.

This time, he will be ready and get away scott free.