American Jiu-Jitsu

[fourfif**]

You're right dude.

I'm over it.

It will just be another place I trained that people hate on.

I should be used to in here having trained at 1Op.

 

[Jimmy Cerra]

Nobody is "renaming" anything. It was NEVER BJJ, since it's always been NoGi.

It has to be called something.

AJJ it is.

People can get over it, or throw on your pajamas and do a dojo raid, which will inevitably end poorly for you.

Just because I don't wear a gi (or when I fight MMA) or doing a IBJJF sanctioned tournament (like when I did one that allowed heel hooks in gi) doesn't mean I'm not doing jiu-jitsu.

BJJ is popular because the Gracies were great teachers and fighters. They were passionate about the sport and improving the lives of others through martial arts. They were great marketers and took the risks opening academies around the world. They lead by example - starting the UFC, Pride, the IBJJF and other organizations.

If you think AJJ is better, then it isn't going to be because of some philosophical point. The variation between fighters in a style makes that moot. It is their actions in the community that will make them surpass or just be another in-house system like 10th Planet JJ.

 

[knoxpk]

No it won

 

[lechien]

Ok so we have a contradiction here! How could Maeda have pioneered BOTH Judo and JJ at the same time?

HMMMMMMMMMMMM HE DIDNT!!!

I thought you already knew that!

Because back then, the terms were exchangable!

Some like the Gracies decided to keep it real for VL challenge etc...

Some decided to follow the Kodokan Judo and their sport/game/rules...

 

[knoxpk]

I want AJJ to have its own sport/competition rules and point system to reflect their "philosophy". I think with their wrestling influence, they could turn into the best JJ in the world.

If LV or CACC had developped their sport via their own competition, that would have been brilliant for their art.

At the moment, the NOGI competitions are mostly just a bad rip off IBJJF rules.

I agree 100%!!!

 

[fourfif**]

I want AJJ to have its own sport/competition rules and point system to reflect their "philosophy". I think with their wrestling influence, they could turn into the best JJ in the world.

If LV or CACC had developped their sport via their own competition, that would have been brilliant for their art.

At the moment, the NOGI competitions are mostly just a bad rip off IBJJF rules.

2nded.

Penalties for guard pulling + points for high amp throws + subs = awesome.

 

[lechien]

2nded.

Penalties for guard pulling + points for high amp throws + subs = awesome.

what about pin? unlimited ground fighting?

 

[fourfif**]

what about pin? unlimited ground fighting?

no pins! basically FILA rules, as you mentioned previously seem to fit the style fairly well. the thing missing for me is the points for high amp throws. they should be encouraged. but pins, no way. maybe points for maintaining control for a while, but improving position should be encouraged as well.

 

[Rado]

Actually the Judo Federation of Brasil claims Maeda as their pionner as well.

Ok so we have a contradiction here! How could Maeda have pioneered BOTH Judo and JJ at the same time?

HMMMMMMMMMMMM HE DIDNT!!!

Oh my oh my! Knoxpk, I know you are not as dumb as you are looking like here and just want to keep face, but dude!

This:

I thought you already knew that!

Because back then, the terms were exchangable!

Some like the Gracies decided to keep it real for VL challenge etc...

Some decided to follow the Kodokan Judo and their sport/game/rules...

 

[Jimmy Cerra]

no pins! basically FILA rules, as you mentioned previously seem to fit the style fairly well. the thing missing for me is the points for high amp throws. they should be encouraged. but pins, no way. maybe points for maintaining control for a while, but improving position should be encouraged as well.

In practice, points for high-amplitude throws don't mean much in grappling competitions. FILA used to give them additional points, but they were very rare. Instead, they simplified their rules. Simplicity is usually better.

Guard pulling should be penalized with an advantage in grappling tournaments. Nothing more. We've gone over the reasons over and over again. 2 points is way too much and discourages submissions. You should never get points for doing nothing. An advantage encourages the bottom guy to work harder for either sweeps or submissions. Let's not rehash it please.

And IBJJF rules already penalize guard pullers. In the event of a tie of points & advantages, and both competitors were both just as active, then the guy who was on top most of the match gets the win. AFAIK.

 

[Darth Shlong]

American JJ ? Are the teachers outsourced from India ?

 

[fourfif**]

Oh my oh my! Knoxpk, I know you are not as dumb as you are looking like here and just want to keep face, but dude!

This:

Your attitude stinks homie.

Knox don't even acknowledge this dude.

 

[knoxpk]

Oh my oh my! Knoxpk, I know you are not as dumb as you are looking like here and just want to keep face, but dude!

This:

Sorry bro, but the same dude showed up taught one group JJ then went across the street a year or 2 later and taught them "Judo"...Ok, whatever.

And lets back up to a point I made but you carefully skipped.....JS has credentials in wrestling AND BJJ at a very high level. Out of his mouth he says its a different system, yet you are saying it is not. What is your level of expertise in either or both arts to contradict a person who is widely known as an expert in the field?

BumpyKnuckle.com Exclusive Interview With Jake Shields | BumpyKnuckle.com

 

[knoxpk]

American JJ ? Are the teachers outsourced from India ?

Now THIS is funny! +1

 

[redaxe]

In practice, points for high-amplitude throws don't mean much in grappling competitions. FILA used to give them additional points, but they were very rare. Instead, they simplified their rules. Simplicity is usually better.

Guard pulling should be penalized with an advantage in grappling tournaments. Nothing more. We've gone over the reasons over and over again. 2 points is way too much and discourages submissions. You should never get points for doing nothing. An advantage encourages the bottom guy to work harder for either sweeps or submissions. Let's not rehash it please.

And IBJJF rules already penalize guard pullers. In the event of a tie of points & advantages, and both competitors were both just as active, then the guy who was on top most of the match gets the win. AFAIK.

I fully agree with this except for the last paragraph. It's much easier to score advantages with submission attempts than with pass attempts, so in a scoreless match the guy who pulled guard usually wins by advantages for sub attempts.

The easiest way for the guy in top position to score an advantage is usually to fall back for an ankle lock. I almost never see advantages awarded for "almost" passing the guard, unless you actually forced the guy to roll backward and turtle up.

I agree though, giving up an advantage (or possibly 1 point) to penalize a guard pull would be an improvement in the current rules.

 

[knoxpk]

I fully agree with this except for the last paragraph. It's much easier to score advantages with submission attempts than with pass attempts, so in a scoreless match the guy who pulled guard usually wins by advantages for sub attempts.

The easiest way for the guy in top position to score an advantage is usually to fall back for an ankle lock. I almost never see advantages awarded for "almost" passing the guard, unless you actually forced the guy to roll backward and turtle up.

I agree though, giving up an advantage (or possibly 1 point) to penalize a guard pull would be an improvement in the current rules.

To be fair, I dont think the idea of AJJ is to mimic BJJ. Just to mimic the submissions of BJJ. In my opinion of course the ability to takedown, get on top, stay on top, ESCAPE and/or reverse from the bottom are going to have a heavy wrestling emphasis.

I think the one glaring non wrestling ground position is going to be the ability to win the fight from the bottom, as it should be.

So keeping that in mind I think there should be (hypothetical) 2 points for a standard takedown, 3 points for a hihg amplitude takedown or throw. A guard pull counts the same as getting taken down. Sweep 2 points just like a reversal in wrestling, escape from the bottom back to the feet escaping control of the top man 1 point for the escapee. No points for a "pin" per se but similar scoring protocol for top position like side control 2 points, full mount 3 points and back control with hooks 3 points all held for at least 5 seconds for control purposes.

Its similar to wrestling AND BJJ but different from both, Much like AJJ.

 

[Jimmy Cerra]

Your attitude stinks homie.

Knox don't even acknowledge this dude.

Knox is on my ignore list because there's no reason talking to him. Even when he is absolutely wrong (judo & jiu-jitsu were synonyms back in the day), he refuses to get it. He doesn't debate with an open mind, and he stereotypes everything and everyone.

I have a fight on Friday, so I have a hot temper right now. But I don't have time to listen to what he has to say. He's part of the reason this forum has gone downhill so much.

 

[knoxpk]

Knox is on my ignore list because there's no reason talking to him. Even when he is absolutely wrong (judo & jiu-jitsu were synonyms back in the day), he refuses to get it. He doesn't debate with an open mind, and he stereotypes everything and everyone.

I have a fight on Friday, so I have a hot temper right now. But I don't have time to listen to what he has to say. He's part of the reason this forum has gone downhill so much.

Wow so the hobbit is painting with a broad brush but I stereotype?
HMMMM.... The forum has gone downhill? Since 2003? Check my join date. LOL what a tool.

Jimmy you are a douche..Bad luck in your next fight man!

By the way, when Jimmy gets ready to fight he goes on the rag.

Here is a PM I got from him last time he blew up on me..

I had a MMA fight a month ago, a submission-only BJJ superfight 2 weeks later (I won), and I have another submission-only tournament this weekend too. (Mentions something about family I dont want to repost in public), one of my main MMA trainers left for ATT on Sunday, and my brother left for Afghanistan on Monday morning too. He'll be back for a week during Christmas, but that's it for the next 15 months.

I've been stressed lately. I have been nursing injuries - after my MMA fight injuries finally heal, I tweak my neck. It never ends... This close to a tournament I naturally get really aggressive and argumentative too. I'm training 7 days a week, at 2-4 hours a day. I'm broken down. So my fuse is really short. I hear the same thing over and over again in your posts, and it just gets to me. It is like a broken record. I'm already fired up by Renzo's passionate monologue. It makes me go off on rants.

I hope you understand. I don't intend to post in that thread about this particular topic, because it truly is off-topic and I don't wish to clutter it anymore.

BOO F*ing Hoo!

 

[Freezing Winds**]

American JJ ? Are the teachers outsourced from India ?

if the teachers are complete idiots and completely useless, then yes they are outsourced from india.

if they have even the slightest inkling of talent, then no they are not outsourced.

 

[fourfif**]

lmfao!! you guys are freaking hilarious. for the record two of my favorite posters. After your fight come back in here and let's all be friends again, lol...



knox: agreed on the points scoring. If someone has me in mount and I bridge back to top position, it should definitely be worth something. Also I will always be a staunch advocate for high amp throws getting the points they deserve.