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Alistair Overeem trains kyokushin
- Thread starter Jimmy Jazz
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Lol quoted me from another thread.
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What do you mean? like training for head punches in the dojo but just not having them in tournaments?
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whoops. I was going to call for your banning for the mila kunis vote YOU MONSTER.
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i must of misunderstood your original post I quoted. Can you explain what you meant?
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yeah sure. I just meant that karatekas would get alot more brain damage with punches to the head. If they had a professional sport like boxing where they could make good money then you could warrant a rule set like that, which would include head punches. I heard they originally had head punches but because of the bare knuckles there were all sorts of terrible injuries. I do think the art was compromised so that it would be promoted more.
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that makes sense.
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Lol when you put it like that it does seem a bit bananas.
The no punches to the face rule is to save people's brains and to retain that bareknuckle element. Sure flying knees to the face & head kicks are just as brutal but they are much harder to land whereas your more likely to get hit with a punch to the face and get concussed.
Sure body punches hurt but it's not the same as taking a shot to the head. It's also something that doesn't take away from your health the way kickboxing, mt or mma might with face punches.
The only con to Kyokushin is that for more safer sport & health you give up a lot of realistic elements of fighting like grappling or knowing how to deal with face punches or even operating in that range.
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That's how K1 came about - as an avenue for Kyokushin tournament fighters to make a living out of fighting or for Seidokaikan fighters (a lot of Kyokushin fighters switched to this to be able to fight professionally as it was forbidden in Kyokushin at the time to fight for entertainment or be a pro) to be able to have the opportunity to fight if they wanted to and make a living. It was an attempt to make a professional sport and avenue for seidokaikan & kyokushin competitors to compete professionally.
To begin with it was mainly knockdown karate but they introduced kickboxing and eventually it replaced the knockdown.
The tournament format for kickboxing and even the round structure of 3x3min rounds comes from Kyokushin tournaments where it's 3x1.5min rounds with a tournament structure. Even the extension rounds at the end of kickboxing matchups are taken from Kyokushin tournaments - where if there is no decisive winner there is multiple extensions until there is a clear winner. Then the last 8 or last 16 format - taken directly from kyokushin tournaments as well.
During Mas Oyama's time you had to leave KK and join Seido to compete in K1 - in Matsui's era he allowed KK fighters to compete professionally if they wanted so it was never an issue.
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It's not that crazy though. How many clean kicks to the head does one usually take in a fight? And then how many clean punches does a boxer take to the head? 100?
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It depends on your definition of bananas. For me bananas are nice and sweet, just like Kyokushin
I don't see how you could possibly legally fight bare knuckle in this day and age otherwise, unless you're fighting in Leithwei which you can pretty much only find in Myanmar.
Also, the fact that you can't punch to the face means you have to rely on other weapons to KO your opponent, i.e body punches, knees, kicks etc. This makes the sport a lot of more technically skilled.
Somehow you also really limit the amount of brain damage you accumulate through the years, compared to let's say boxing or MMA. Granted you may get knee'd or kicked to the head, but how often does that happen compared to when full force punches to the head are allowed?
Some Kyokushin / Knockdown guys would also argue that it's stupid to fight with big padding on your hands, as the way you're punching with gloves is unrealistic - you don't have to form a proper fist and keep your wrist straight, and you also tend to hit a lot harder when wearing gloves as your hands are protected than you would without them - and blocking and protecting your head with big gloves is also unrealistic.
At the end of the day you have to appreciate it for what it is, and if you don't like it don't watch it. I don't comment on wrestling or BJJ topics for example as it doesn't interest me.
I think Shidokan have it right as they do Knockdown, Kickboxing/Thai Boxing, and Grappling
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So when kyokushin was started they were concerned about concussions because of punching? For the sake of devils advocacy I'd say that bare knuckle punches would cut and damage a fighter face more but the concussive force and resulting brain damage would be less because people generally don't throw 100% without gloves or wraps on.
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I think they were worried about people being concussed & facial injuries because most people had to turn up to work the next day. I think as well concussions was why you had point fighting or semi-contact competitions evolving in Karate - because they were obviously aware of the health implications of being punched full force in the face repeatedly - otherwise why introduce semi-contact or point fighting to begin with? Health implications from being punched in the face are easily observable to the average person - we have plenty of examples in the combat sports world and none of us had to really do a brain scan to notice the slurring, speech impediments or change in behavior for example --- for some weird reason we think people in the past never saw the same things.
I'm personally of the belief that martial artists of the past were well aware of the health effects of sparring/competing and why for a long time there was a reluctance especially with traditional arts like Karate to engage in it. I think that also probably factored into why Mas Oyama chose to opt bareknuckle to the body over face punching. Now you have things going full circle and some fighters drilling & no longer sparring which sounds a lot like what karateka back in the day did.
Hmm - I'm not entirely sure. For starters some people may be able to punch 100% without gloves/wraps on - I've seen people capable of doing it so I don't think that applies to everyone. I think I could probably hit someone 100% and not break my hand either & I think most kyokushin or goju karate practitioners wouldn't have too much of an issue with doing so either. I'd be more worried about hitting my thumb in all honesty on bone/elbow. Also the potential facial injuries increase ten fold like punching someone and permanently blinding them for life since bone on bone contact (especially near the eye area) will probably increase the likelihood of breakage - not to mention the cuts.
I think in general it would save your brain a lot more than it would otherwise but you'd still be getting irreversible brain trauma just less of it and increase the likelihood of other injuries. Combinations would also go out the window and people would be more likely to pot shot and pick there shots too.
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yes. This is the reason I won't do it. trading body punches at close range with hands low is only useful in kyokushin. I have seen a knockdown tournament on youtube where head punches were allowed, and there is daido juku, but I bet at regular clubs everyone is standing in front of each other with hands low and beating the shit out of each others body.
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I don't do it anymore but to plays devils advocate it does save your brain more than boxing, mt, kickboxing or even my own style kudo. It will give you the conditioning & mental toughness to deal with the average joe - does it have it's issues with face punching - sure but it does save your brain for day to day life.
We do some kyokushin conditioning in Kudo - but no we don't sit in front of each other with our hands low beating the shit out of each other only if for some reason we do knockdown sparring that night - then it's beating the shit out of each others body galore.
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I think light contact with gloves like the thai's do would be good. I did light and full contact karate as a kid and it helped alot.
