ALIEN: COVENANT Thread v.2 (Dragonlord's Review, post #1)

[GearSolidMetal]

I really want to play this pinball game.

 

[heavyarms21]

@Dragonlordxxxxx

5/10

It just felt bland also when they showed that Walter could heal so quickly after a seemingly fatal neck wound as soon as the scars on David's face weren't healing that felt like a heavy handed clue to the audience that the crew was fucked. Regardless of how good Fassbender was in both roles , this is poorly written and everyone feels like they are on autopilot.

 

[Mike]

Does it make it any better to see it from David's perspective? He is our viewpoint in this franchise. So it's more like, look how much these people deserve to die they're so stupid. Yes he's villainous but maybe we're looking at him incorrectly.

What if he's the hero?

In a certain sense. Between both films he's the only character we spend enough time with to actually show some depth. I liked Daniels though, and the movie seems conflicted on whether she's the main character, or if it's David/Walter. Over 2 hours but still feels rushed and disjointed with too much going on. Reminds me of BvS in that aspect. Frankly after watching them bumble around acting like morons for 2 hours, I sort of agreed with David that they deserved their fate.

 

[Mike]

I'd guess they tested a cut without the red herring of the knife after the David/Walter fight and audiences were confused about the reveal. Once they showed the knife, it was a dead giveaway. Never underestimate the stupidity of the average movie-goer.

Re: Crudup's character putting his face over the egg. Remember, we know it's an egg. We've seen it several times. He doesn't. He's never seen it. Curiosity is a motherfucker.

 

[minute bull]

In a certain sense. Between both films he's the only character we spend enough time with to actually show some depth. I liked Daniels though, and the movie seems conflicted on whether she's the main character, or if it's David/Walter. Over 2 hours but still feels rushed and disjointed with too much going on. Reminds me of BvS in that aspect. Frankly after watching them bumble around acting like morons for 2 hours, I sort of agreed with David that they deserved their fate.

That's the genius of Scott for me, because he can exist on multiple levels. Looking at it from the colonists' you see it one way, then look at it from David's perspective you get another.

Here's the thing about moronic decisions -- that's not how creators look at character actions. There are no smart plans or stupid plans. There's only plans you know are going to fail, and those that are going to succeed. One of the toughest things to write is a strong plan KNOWING IT MUST FAIL. Think about it. It's no fun to watch a movie where everything goes according to plan. So all the work you put into a great plan, you know you've got to come up with an even more brilliant way to foil that plan. Because without the failures and obstacles, you have no movie. Tarantino talks about this regarding DJANGO UNCHAINED, acknowledging that Schultz's is plan is stupid and Django's plan would have worked, but there would be no movie if Django simply buys his wife's freedom and rides off into the sunset.

I realize that even when plans ARE DESIGNED TO fail, it depends on the creators to adequately sell the initial gambit, at least make it look sporting. So when you have shit like running in a straight line to get crushed or peeking your face over the face-eating egg -- I can see how we think it's stupid, but that's because we the audience bring too much baggage to each film, which honestly should be taken on its own merits alone. Even when part of a franchise. Moreover, we don't get to enjoy movies if we regard them as stupid.

I'm currently trying to convince a friend why his attitude ruined the movie LOGAN for him, and not the film itself. Not to say he's wrong, because it can be fun to shit all over a film. But rather I endeavor to grow his ability to enjoy good movies. It's really tough, because he's really entrenched in his ideas. But from my perspective, he's digging his heels into the idea of not-wanting to like something, which sounds like a dumb thing to fight for.

COVENANT is a superior film for all its shortcomings and dissatisfying story twists. You're not wasting your time with that one.

 

[ChucksGlassJaw]

I think that's the point. Looking for heaven or god is rarely what we expect it's gonna be. And I think the main thrust of David's story is robbing us of getting to know more about what created us. I don't think he hates the Engineers for having made a flawed creation so much as he wants to punish the creation by killing its creator.


I'm starting to believe it's done in a manner in which if you view it from the side of the colonists it looks a bit silly and obvious. But if you can look at it from the viewpoint of David, wherein the colonists are the antagonists, it takes on a different significance altogether. Like we're supposed to feel like, "Oh no, Walter got the drop on David! This could be it. He's on to all his tricks. No, I know my guy will weasel his way out of this one too, somehow."

I guess I come from that BLADE RUNNER debate club. Over the years we've had plenty of time to discuss the merits of both arguments, and to see that film both ways, and how even beyond the question of whether Deckard is a replicant, BLADE RUNNER is a film that exists with several layers of meaning. The detective story. The cyberpunk futurism. The rumination on the nature of humanity. The poetic thriller.

In PROMETHEUS even though I saw David acting vengeful, I didn't cotton on the fact he's not just evil but he's the devil. So COVENANT confirmed that with the opening sequence, and when he re-emerged COVENANT then brought me to the dichotomy that though he is the villain he's the hero too. Because all these other characters are gonna fall by the wayside, and we're going on his journey. What's fascinating to me is how his journey informs us of Ridley Scott's ideas on life and legacy and spirituality.

The brilliance of Bladerunner is the sound design (obviously among other things). Vangelis did such an incredible job. Watch it again only really paying attention to the sound. It's another character. It's almost the most important character. It's damn near perfect.

 

[Bob Gray]

I'd guess they tested a cut without the red herring of the knife after the David/Walter fight and audiences were confused about the reveal. Once they showed the knife, it was a dead giveaway. Never underestimate the stupidity of the average movie-goer.

Re: Crudup's character putting his face over the egg. Remember, we know it's an egg. We've seen it several times. He doesn't. He's never seen it. Curiosity is a motherfucker.

That did kind of occur to me when I thought about it. After all, Kane practically kissed the egg in Alien and everyone knows thats a classic movie and we dont really question his action in context.

However, the context of the scenario is completely different. He's seen his crew members killed by something and just witnessed David practically tongue kissing the lethal organism. Then he listens to him when he said it was "perfectly safe". Thats where it breaks the suspension of disbelief imo.

Part of me wonders if it was a slight dig at the characters religious faith. Like he had too much faith in David, so he got killed. I know Scott is an atheist but maybe Im just reading too much into it.

 

[minute bull]

GODS AND KINGS is a retelling of the TEN COMMANDMENTS that seems pretty respectful, if that means anything. Some might argue being a mediocre picture is the greatest crime against god, but that could be overstating things. PROMETHEUS had "God" wanting to wipe us out for killing Jesus, but I don't think that was meant to be taken as a diss either.

Every horror movie has the one character that falls victim to hope; "Maybe it's the wind?" It's not even too late for them, it's BEYOND too late. They STARTED off the film and it was already too late. Or they're Black.

 

[Mike]

That's the genius of Scott for me, because he can exist on multiple levels. Looking at it from the colonists' you see it one way, then look at it from David's perspective you get another.

Here's the thing about moronic decisions -- that's not how creators look at character actions. There are no smart plans or stupid plans. There's only plans you know are going to fail, and those that are going to succeed. One of the toughest things to write is a strong plan KNOWING IT MUST FAIL. Think about it. It's no fun to watch a movie where everything goes according to plan. So all the work you put into a great plan, you know you've got to come up with an even more brilliant way to foil that plan. Because without the failures and obstacles, you have no movie. Tarantino talks about this regarding DJANGO UNCHAINED, acknowledging that Schultz's is plan is stupid and Django's plan would have worked, but there would be no movie if Django simply buys his wife's freedom and rides off into the sunset.

I realize that even when plans ARE DESIGNED TO fail, it depends on the creators to adequately sell the initial gambit, at least make it look sporting. So when you have shit like running in a straight line to get crushed or peeking your face over the face-eating egg -- I can see how we think it's stupid, but that's because we the audience bring too much baggage to each film, which honestly should be taken on its own merits alone. Even when part of a franchise. Moreover, we don't get to enjoy movies if we regard them as stupid.

I'm currently trying to convince a friend why his attitude ruined the movie LOGAN for him, and not the film itself. Not to say he's wrong, because it can be fun to shit all over a film. But rather I endeavor to grow his ability to enjoy good movies. It's really tough, because he's really entrenched in his ideas. But from my perspective, he's digging his heels into the idea of not-wanting to like something, which sounds like a dumb thing to fight for.

COVENANT is a superior film for all its shortcomings and dissatisfying story twists. You're not wasting your time with that one.

In some stories the hero must fail. I don't have an issue with that, in fact I enjoy it. If the good guy always wins it's predictable and boring. I'm a big Stephen King fan, and in his books the protagonist often loses or incurs heavy losses in victory. However I disagree that in order for the villain to win it's necessary for the heroes to act like idiots. I can suspend disbelief to a degree. Deciding to abandon the heavily researched planet because one guy died out of 2000? Ok. Wandering around said planet showing next to no caution, no helmets and touching and sticking your face in everything? You know what? Still ok. I'm still with you. Some amount of idiocy is sometimes required so the plot can unfold.


Trusting David for no particular reason, when he looks and sounds crazy? Walter not attaching any importance to David immediately matching his appearance? Splitting off into tiny groups in Davids lair? That one chick going to bathe solo with known apex predators about? Oram following David into an egg chamber and sticking his face into an egg after he knows David is psychotic and behind the xenos and his wife's death, and that infection can occur easily? Daniels and Tennessee not even pausing to suspect Walter?


It's too much idiocy. I can buy them detouring, exploring the planet, freaking out when shit suddenly gets real. I can't buy never showing an increased level of caution or awareness, even as you're friends and spouses die one by one. I love Fassbender and David/Walter, but they didn't need to reduce everyone else to drooling morons. It's not even about what scientists or experts would do, it's about what any person with a brain would do in those circumstances. Fass does elevate a c level horror movie into high b level, I'll give it that.

 

[minute bull]

Yeah, I really did laugh at that part. It was almost as funny as the part in ARMY OF DARKNESS when Ash tells the one King that his shoelace is untied. Like how does anyone fall for this, and then sure enough they look down.

Now I'm gonna need a blunt like this.

 

[Agent Mulder's Hair]

Finally saw this today. My opinion differs from most ppl. I thought it was really good. Way better than Prometheus. I think what throws some ppl off is that the story in Covenant is a small scale story. Prometheus had a HUGE story, but Covenant is just what happens to this crew on this 1 planet over only a day or two. I do get the complaint I've read from ppl saying Covenant as a movie is kinda pointless. It kinda is. But still very well made. Oh and the characters dumb actions weren't nearly as stupid as ppl claim. The characters on Prometheus were 10X dumber. And ppl saying the "twist" at the end was overly obvious.....I didn't see it as being intended to be a surprise to the audience. But that was my take. Anyway, pretty good film and I enjoyed it much more than Prometheus.




Oh! And WOW I have a new favorite celeb crush in Katherine Waterston! Holy crap that girl is CUTE! But trust me bros.....and I mean TRUST ME......if u haven't googled her naked pics, drop what you're doing right now and look those up. You are not going to believe the body that girl has.

 

[Agent Mulder's Hair]

Also, another way my opinion seems to differ from most is I keep hearing everybody say Fassbender was so good in both roles. He was great as David. But as Walter I couldn't get past how HORRIBLE his accent was. At times it was southern (badly overdone southern) and other times it was....I'm not even sure, but it was an awful attempt at any sort of American accent. Am I the only one who couldn't stand listening to that?

 

[minute bull]

 

[MDoza]

They didn't do anything new with this movie, and the ending was pretty easy to see coming.

This series of prequels is unfolding into a story about David (Michael Fassbender), and his creation of the "Alien" species.

I feel like shit is going to get weird like it was with Ripley in Alien Resurrection, with David expanding his knowledge of how to control the newborn Aliens (aka android-Fassbender nurturing Aliens and treating them like his children). Eventually, since David think's that human's are inferior, we will see that he was responsible for all of the human encounters with the Aliens. However, he will lose control of the Aliens along the way and they will kill him too, explaining why he doesn't show up in the originals.

Somehow they will turn that paragraph into 2-3 movies worth of tropes, starring Michael Fassbender.

 

[deviake]

Edit: And spoilers!

 

[Bob Gray]

That was even stupider than the movie.

 

[deviake]

That was even stupider than the movie.

Scientifically impossible.

 

[Peteyandjia]

I was actually gonna go see this, but then I heard from multiple people it was somehow worse than Prometheus, so fuck that shit.

 

[deviake]

I was actually gonna go see this, but then I heard from multiple people it was somehow worse than Prometheus, so fuck that shit.

Yeah, I think you're better off holding onto your money.

The funny thing is, the aspects of it in the beginning that kinda continued the ideas of Prometheus were actually better than the 'Alien' parts of it. It got dumber as it went along.

 

[bigbangspiritbomb]

i found this on my android box. Likely, I will need to respect some of your wizardry and get filled in on the specifics of this mind fuck of a movie. Prometheus failed to reach me as I was left with more questions (then before I started the movie) then answers. Some of you filled me in here and in that other thread but, likely, I will be back to ask WTF did I just watch?

I hate when they do too much (as I am suspecting given all the criticisms I am seeing here), poor attempt to be clever, and it falls absolutely flat.

Huge sci-fi fan ever since I was a kid. I watch the Alien movie originals though, I wasn't a fan of the lead woman. Did not find her attractive or into her abilities as an actress. Still, I am a huge fan and hoping to get a fair bit from this movie. Sadly, I am likely reaching given the criticisms I am seeing here.

Please, no spoilers if you quote this post. Thanks