Alfie Evans: Still alive 9 hours after life support pulled, Father pleading to re-instate with this

Discussion in 'The War Room' started by HockeyBjj, Apr 16, 2018.

  1. HockeyBjj Putting on the foil

    HockeyBjj
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    Update post #47: Alfie's life support has been withdrawn, but the boy is still living and breathing on his own hours later

    "The father of Alfie Evans has claimed doctors were left “gobsmacked” after the terminally ill toddler’s life support was withdrawn but he continued to survive." It has been 9 hours now, and Alfie's father is arguing that the life support should be re-introduced in light of this unexpected development.
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    https://www.theguardian.com/law/201...rents-return-to-court-amid-alder-hey-protests

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/4312535/alfie-evans-illness-kate-james-tom-evans/

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/we-cannot-legal-groundhog-day-12372287

    I used The Guardian as the main source for this as this is the type of story that can be heavily represented one way or the other, and I see The Guardian as less biased than the average media source

    Alife Evans is a 23 month old boy who after a healthy first year of life, began regressing and has a non identified degenerative neurological condition that has him currently in a semi-vegetative coma. Other outlets report it is a kind of Mitochondrial Depletion syndrome affecting his DNA and preventing his body from sending energy to muscles, organs, or the brain. The British doctors say there is no more hope, and that life support machines should be pulled. The parents wish to take the child it Italy for some experimental treatments.

    British courts, over a series of cases, ruled with the doctors over the parents of the toddler- that life support should be withdrawn. The parents have one last appeal to stay the life support pulling, with the result being released this afternoon. Last week, a higher court submitted a detailed plan to pull life support against the parents wishes, citing that keeping the child alive was inhumane.

    The parents attempted to press charges for unlawful detainment of Alfie when they were not allowed to remove their son from the hospital to take him elsewhere (presumably overseas). The hospital had police stop the parents, and the police told them they would be criminally charged if they took Alfie. The charge attempt against the hospital was dismissed by the court.

    There has been a great amount of demonstrator support for Alfie and his parents both online and large groups of people outside the hospital itself
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    If the parents are paying, I fully believe it should be well within the rights of the parents to take their child out of the country in a last ditch effort for treatment unless something is going on where the child is under torturous amounts of pain with top doctors saying there's no hope to reverse it. This case here, the child is in a coma. If the parents wish to extend that coma a couple of months on a final hope and prayer, that should be a parent's decision. Not a judge's. Unless something happened where the parents no longer have paternal rights to their child, this sounds like a paternal right not a government one.
     
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    Last edited: Apr 24, 2018 at 10:11 AM
  2. Armbars Red Belt

    Armbars
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    this boils down to a simple argument;

    Who has the best interests of the child. The medical experts, or the poor buggers called the parents?

    Its a sad and tricky issue. Cant imagine how i'd feel.
     
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  3. Prutfis Master of pups

    Prutfis
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    Doesn´t he die immediately if they remove him from the hospital? Will they have life support in place if they move him? Wasn´t the "alternative" treatment they wanted a bunch of hokum?
     
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  4. HockeyBjj Putting on the foil

    HockeyBjj
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    I'm sure it wasn't just the dad unstraps the kid and carries him out to a car seat in their Honda Civic. They have a huge gofundme source that I'm sure would be used to cover a medical transport with the ventilator and feeding tube and whatever else needed to keep him alive

    And that's the question. Does a government get to determine what medical treatments from which countries are allowed or declared "hokum" and not worth the attempt? Or should that decision rest with the parents?
     
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  5. VivaRevolution Gold Belt

    VivaRevolution
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    Kid is in a coma.

    Where is the suffering?

    If they are paying for this, I don't understand the problem.
     
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  6. ShoelessRye Gold Belt

    ShoelessRye
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    If Parents are paying, than it should be there call. Slippery slope on this in the UK though as then in the future if parents can't pay but want to continue similar long shot treatments...
     
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  7. snakedafunky Black Belt

    snakedafunky
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    Well, that's why we have courts. The parents similar to the other parents from last year are unable to accept reality. (not blaming them)
    So the court steps in to handle in the interest of the child. We do have that with other issues as well.
    All courts have ruled the same way here.
     
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  8. VivaRevolution Gold Belt

    VivaRevolution
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    Isn't reality that the kid is in a vegetative coma, and you literally can do no harm?
     
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  9. sabretruth Gold Belt

    sabretruth
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    This is depressing as fuck.
     
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  10. snakedafunky Black Belt

    snakedafunky
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    No, the reality is that the kid can't be saved. You don't know if do any harm or how much the kid still feels pain.
    Also probably none but there is no point in continuing this.
    The fact is that his brain is gone. If the article is correct.
    He can't be saved. No matter where you take him.
     
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  11. VivaRevolution Gold Belt

    VivaRevolution
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    So, we are basically talking about a bag of meat then right?

    Why can't they take their bag of meat where they want?
     
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  12. cincymma79 Red Belt

    cincymma79
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    Two issues at hand here

    Parents are wanting care that has been deemed unreasonable

    Charity stepped in to get them care somewhere else but government is still saying no

    This accurate?

    Second issue is the risky one. Government can say no here why not there and so on
     
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  13. snakedafunky Black Belt

    snakedafunky
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    No, it's still a human being and under the jurisdictions of the courts.
    I mean that's one reason to have laws and courts.
    So humans and especially children can be protected if their parents are unable too.
    Even if the protection here is unfortunately only limited to ending the suffering and offer the kid a peaceful passing.
     
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  14. Billy no mates Green Belt

    Billy no mates
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    Tricky , I spent 3 very tense and emotional weeks with my son in NICU (he had a cerbral infarction during birth) I know by the end of that relatively short time all rational thought on my part had pretty much ceased , my heart goes out to them there are no easy answers to this sort of thing .
     
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  15. VivaRevolution Gold Belt

    VivaRevolution
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    Sounds like the law needs to be fixed.

    It's a bag of meat. It's the same argument that is made for why abortion isn't murder. It's the parents psychological state that should be protected at this point. Their is no child to protect.
     
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  16. oldshadow Gold Belt

    oldshadow
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    It's tricky because you have to protect the child from what would be abuse.

    However baring real abuse the decision should always rest with the parents.

    If they have the money and means they should be allowed to try any medical treatment they can even if the doctors there say it will not work.
     
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  17. snakedafunky Black Belt

    snakedafunky
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    No, the laws are fine. Not sure what abortion has to do with it.
    But in this case, it is not a bag of meat. It is a UK citizen that falls under UK law.
     
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  18. VivaRevolution Gold Belt

    VivaRevolution
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    Shouldn't be. It is a bag of meat.

    The citizens that should be protected are the sentient UK citizens.
     
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  19. cincymma79 Red Belt

    cincymma79
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    Where you drawing that line at? How about downs? Missing leg? Coma?
     
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  20. VivaRevolution Gold Belt

    VivaRevolution
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    Vegetative coma. Simple line.
     
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