Alcohol and tobacco are by far the biggest threat to human welfare of all addictive drugs

[tonni]

Yeah well, that's where free will and individual freedoms kick in, IMO.
I don't really like the notion of societal pressure. It is quite a subjective notion. People are responsible for the actions and their consequences.

How about fastfood ? Or Coca Cola advertisement ? I know that Coca Cola commercials get to me, especially on a hot day. It's a bottle of poison.

Seriously, once you go down this road, it's kind of a slippery slope.

From my own anecdotal experience, poor nutrition causes more harm to society than alcohol or drugs, by a wide margin.

If I look at Germany, I think that seriously less than 1% of the population uses drugs. Most people drink alcohol, but I don't think alcoholism is a huge problem here.

I'm not a big fan of the influence of corporations hypnotizing the masses into buying their products, and the worse the product the more I dislike it. I don't mind this slippery slope.

 

[tonni]

Yeah well, that's where free will and individual freedoms kick in, IMO.

An issue I see here, is that people aged 16-18 do not have the maturity to decide for themselves if they can drink "moderately". That's the minimum age for drinking here btw. 16 for beer and wine, 18 for stronger drinks.

Which is ridiculous since getting drunk from beer and vodka is basically the same, only the latter goes faster.

 

[Prutfis]

Yeah well, that's where free will and individual freedoms kick in, IMO.
I don't really like the notion of societal pressure. It is quite a subjective notion. People are responsible for the actions and their consequences.

How about fastfood ? Or Coca Cola advertisement ? I know that Coca Cola commercials get to me, especially on a hot day. It's a bottle of poison.

Seriously, once you go down this road, it's kind of a slippery slope.

From my own anecdotal experience, poor nutrition causes more harm to society than alcohol or drugs, by a wide margin.

If I look at Germany, I think that seriously less than 1% of the population uses drugs. Most people drink alcohol, but I don't think alcoholism is a huge problem here.

Weed is pretty popular in Germany. But overall, I would tend to agree. Doesn´t look like ze Germans do a lot of drugs..
Beer on the other hand they are pretty damn good at

 

[KBE6EKCTAH_CCP]

I'm not a big fan of the influence of corporations hypnotizing the masses into buying their products, and the worse the product the more I dislike it. I don't mind this slippery slope.

Oh ok,then. I am not sure that I would want that, but it is coherent.

But please don't stop at alcohol. Once we're done with alcohol we attack fast food, Coca Cola, ferrero, companies that feed hormones and antibiotics to animals, etc.

It's going to be hard to draw a line, but fuck it why not.

I am not being tongue in cheek, BTW. I am not against the state giving itself the power to legiferate in that field, but it must not be hypocritical and leave alone a bunch of shitty industries, just because alcohol and tobacco stole the spotlight so far.

 

[Prutfis]

An issue I see here, is that people aged 16-18 do not have the maturity to decide for themselves if they can drink "moderately". That's the minimum age for drinking here btw. 16 for beer and wine, 18 for stronger drinks.

Which is ridiculous since getting drunk from beer and vodka is basically the same, only the latter goes faster.

When I started getting around the age alcohol started being a thing (15), my mom got me shitfaced drunk of my ass puking my guts out. Then I knew not to get that drunk again.
So the first parties with alcohol everyone else was getting puke your guts out drunk because it was their first time.

 

[Prutfis]

Oh ok,then. I am not sure that I would want that, but it is coherent.

But please don't stop at alcohol. Once we're done with alcohol we attack fast food, Coca Cola, ferrero, companies that feed hormones and antibiotics to animals, etc.

It's going to be hard to draw a line, but fuck it why not.

I am not being tongue in cheek, BTW. I am not against the state giving itself the power to legiferate in that field, but it must not be hypocritical and leave alone a bunch of shitty industries, just because alcohol and tobacco stole the spotlight so far.

Them be figtin words sonny boy. You keep your damn dirty paws of my ferrero rocher What kind of society are we living in?? Whats next? my Duplo?

 

[Cid]

When I started getting around the age alcohol started being a thing (15), my mom got me shitfaced drunk of my ass puking my guts out. Then I knew not to get that drunk again.
So the first parties with alcohol everyone else was getting puke your guts out drunk because it was their first time.

First time I was shit faced drunk I was sent to school the next day.

Boy did that suck. Held back the vomit because I didn't know it made you feel better.

 

[KBE6EKCTAH_CCP]

Weed is pretty popular in Germany. But overall, I would tend to agree. Doesn´t look like ze Germans do a lot of drugs..
Beer on the other hand they are pretty damn good at

It is not a usual occurence in Germany for joints to start going around at parties. It happens, but it is not systematic. In some other Western countries, a party without a joint is almost weird.

I know in North America normal people will do coke occasionally. In Germany it's rather taboo.

Then, lastly, yes, young Germany drink alot at parties and throw up all over the place. There is vomit everywhere on sidewalks on Sunday mornings in big German cities. No joke. But that's students. Grown up Germans usually don't get completely wasted.

I would say that overall, Germans have their shit together in my experience.

 

[all caps]

An issue I see here, is that people aged 16-18 do not have the maturity to decide for themselves if they can drink "moderately". That's the minimum age for drinking here btw. 16 for beer and wine, 18 for stronger drinks.

Which is ridiculous since getting drunk from beer and vodka is basically the same, only the latter goes faster.

I've thought you were American this whole time

16 is the drinking age? Jesus. I could barely tie my own shoes at 16

 

[KBE6EKCTAH_CCP]

Them be figtin words sonny boy. You keep your damn dirty paws of my ferrero rocher What kind of society are we living in?? Whats next? my Duplo?

Ok dude. I agree for a derogation for Rocher, on the basis of them being absolutely delicious.

 

[bobgeese]

I have to disagree, what we’re seeing with the opioid epidemic is really bad.

 

[panamaican]

It's a stupid comparison for policy purposes. Alcohol and tobacco are legal and thus more easily accessed than illicit drugs. Naturally, they would have more of a negative impact on society.

What's absurd is that some people will use this as an argument to legalize illicit drugs instead of as an argument to restrict access to alcohol and tobacco. Please don't mention Prohibition, it's irrelevant to the point I'm making - which is that legalized substances will always have more impact on society that illegal substances because of the scale of access.

 

[Prutfis]

First time I was shit faced drunk I was sent to school the next day.

Boy did that suck. Held back the vomit because I didn't know it made you feel better.

tough love buddy. tough love

 

[Prutfis]

- which is that legalized substances will always have more impact on society that illegal substances because of the scale of access.

I don´t think that is true 100% of the time, at least not if we are talking negative impact. A shitload of factors to consider.
Portugal had a heroin epidemic going and one of the highest pr capita number of addicts. They decriminalized with major success.

 

[irish_thug]

I bet they all had milk. Milk is the number 1 gateway drug.

*air

 

[Cid]

It's a stupid comparison for policy purposes. Alcohol and tobacco are legal and thus more easily accessed than illicit drugs. Naturally, they would have more of a negative impact on society.

What's absurd is that some people will use this as an argument to legalize illicit drugs instead of as an argument to restrict access to alcohol and tobacco. Please don't mention Prohibition, it's irrelevant to the point I'm making - which is that legalized substances will always have more impact on society that illegal substances because of the scale of access.

You really think buying illegal drugs is that difficult?

Do you believe legalized illicit drugs means we're just going to go full free market on them without the restrictions you talk about?

Hey you're 18 now, have some heroin I bought it at the local convenience store...

 

[ShinkanPo]

Smokers die!!

 

[Prutfis]

Ok dude. I agree for a derogation for Rocher, on the basis of them being absolutely delicious.

 

[Prutfis]

It is not a usual occurence in Germany for joints to start going around at parties. It happens, but it is not systematic. In some other Western countries, a party without a joint is almost weird.

I know in North America normal people will do coke occasionally. In Germany it's rather taboo.

Then, lastly, yes, young Germany drink alot at parties and throw up all over the place. There is vomit everywhere on sidewalks on Sunday mornings in big German cities. No joke. But that's students. Grown up Germans usually don't get completely wasted.

I would say that overall, Germans have their shit together in my experience.

Agreed. Best crowds at concerts and add to that German precision, it´s always awesome to see live music in Germany.

 

[Cid]

Oh ok,then. I am not sure that I would want that, but it is coherent.

But please don't stop at alcohol. Once we're done with alcohol we attack fast food, Coca Cola, ferrero, companies that feed hormones and antibiotics to animals, etc.

It's going to be hard to draw a line, but fuck it why not.

I am not being tongue in cheek, BTW. I am not against the state giving itself the power to legiferate in that field, but it must not be hypocritical and leave alone a bunch of shitty industries, just because alcohol and tobacco stole the spotlight so far.

A lot of countries tax alcohol, tobacco and even fast food at high rates.

It's not a be and end all solution though as excessive taxation leads to a sustainable black market. We have a pretty big black market for tobacco here that never existed before we went nuts on the taxation for it. Black market tobacco isn't only worse for you than legal tobacco it's also substantially cheaper too here.