Alcohol and tobacco are by far the biggest threat to human welfare of all addictive drugs

[nostradumbass]

Lets say you want to keep a buzz going for a night out..

If by alcohol you buy drinks at regular intervals..

If by coke, you snort a line at regular intervals. Really good coke only works for around an hour. It´s not like meth where 1 line will keep you running all night.

So snorting several lines in one night is not going balls out..

Snorting coke at regular intervals isn't a problem?

 

[KBE6EKCTAH_CCP]

Based on my experience, the number one gateway drug to other drugs are alcohol. I know that the vast majority of my friends were drunk when they tried an illegal drug for the first time.

But how is that relevant ?
While alcohol is almost always present when something worse comes, how about for the 98% of people who don't do ever do drugs and are just happy to be tipsy on week-ends ?

 

[Neph]

Snorting coke at regular intervals isn't a problem?

That's how it's done.

 

[Prutfis]

Snorting coke at regular intervals isn't a problem?

Reading comprehension bro. Read it again and then understand it. No, if you have a coke buzz once every 3 months that is not going balls out or lack of moderation.

 

[Son of Jamin]

But how is that relevant ?
While alcohol is almost always present when something worse comes, how about for the 98% of people who don't do ever do drugs and are just happy to be tipsy on week-ends ?

Just a minor tidbit of the dangers of alcohol. People often talk about how weed is a gateway drug to harder drugs, but I'm quite skeptical of that.

 

[Prutfis]

But how is that relevant ?
While alcohol is almost always present when something worse comes, how about for the 98% of people who don't do ever do drugs and are just happy to be tipsy on week-ends ?

Drug users can use that exact argument. Why make them illegal because of a few boneheads when many people can take drugs responsibly?

I´m all for decriminalizing like in Portugal btw. Worked wonders there and we all know what a massive failure the war on drugs is.

 

[ElKarlo]

What's interesting is that the latest massive decline in smoking came at the same time opiods became a problem. I'd rather people smoke, especially iQOS than do heroine and the such.
Sorry I disagree with the premise

 

[Prutfis]

Just a minor tidbit of the dangers of alcohol. People often talk about how weed is a gateway drug to harder drugs, but I'm quite skeptical of that.

When people call cannabis a gateway drug it´s usually because of the places you have to buy it. Easy for a dealer to say "well I don´t have any weed today, but try this instead".. At least that´s what they usually mean in Denmark. Not that weed will make you try harder drugs as such.

 

[Neph]

What's interesting is that the latest massive decline in smoking came at the same time opiods became a problem. I'd rather people smoke, especially iQOS than do heroine and the such.
Sorry I disagree with the premise

That's an interesting argument, do you have any data behind it? I wouldn't be terribly convinced by movements in a single drug as they tend to go in and out of fashion, but rather I'd like to know if there is a broader substitution effect between smoking and other drugs in general.

I would have thought not but I would love to know the stats on it.

 

[irish_thug]

Got a link to that? Not doubting you, just seems quite incredible.

How are the laws regarding cell phone use when driving? You should probably ban drivers from using cell phones when driving.

Any sort of cell phone use while driving has been banned since 2009.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/windsor/opp-distracted-driving-death-1.4019014

 

[ElKarlo]

ThANd9GcRE50RacezbWp2GCoXMr3YNONptJmYV6TD4rA9LoJehAa0AtaLQwaCEeqyvKA
uldn't be terribly convinced by movements in a single drug as they tend to go in and out of fashion, but rather I'd like to know if there is a broader substitution effect between smoking and other drugs in general.

I would have thought not but I would love to know the stats on it.

Sure. I actually stumbled upon this recently https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/...8bysQqwQdgwxSekoiG7rY8U4BxGqZPYPP0ATAMihVHx7F
https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/...oXMr3YNONptJmYV6TD4rA9LoJehAa0AtaLQwaCEeqyvKA there's a lag .but it's there imho. I've talked and worked with a lot of.lower class people. They like the kick thst nicotine gives them. It's relaxing and stimulating at the same time
But with the excise taxes going up circle 08-10 a lot of poor stopped being able to afford cigarettes. I've been told heroine is similar in how it's addictive by users. In fact many quit heroine and became smokers. It filled that hole
Edit https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3367288/
Basically 90% of ex heroine users are smokers

 

[JonnyRingo84]

Links:

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/add.14234

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...is-cocaine-amphetamines-opioids-a8345741.html

Perhaps we should wage war on tobacco and alcohol instead of illegal drugs...

Also in before someone claims that the war on drugs is the reason for the above findings.

but if some illegal drugs were made legal, would they not then be bigger threats than alcohol and tobacco?

i dont know what the answer is with this problem of substance abuse. with any proposed solution, there seems to be some major drawbacks. the war on illegal drugs has obviously caused all sorts of problems.

and people may scoff at this, but i think there is another terribly devastating and addictive substance hiding in plain sight, that is destroying developed nations.......refined sugars.

 

[KBE6EKCTAH_CCP]

Drug users can use that exact argument. Why make them illegal because of a few boneheads when many people can take drugs responsibly?

I´m all for decriminalizing like in Portugal btw. Worked wonders there and we all know what a massive failure the war on drugs is.

It s an interesting topic yet I don't have strong views on it.

My superficial approach would be :
- status quo on drugs and alcohol : the West does NOT have cultural ties with drugs. I see absolutely no need to make them legal. Why change laws for 2 % of the population that uses drugs ?
On alcohol : the West DOES have cultural ties with alcohol (beer for Germany, Belgium and UK, whisky for the UK, wine for France, etc.) and I am against changing laws on them / taxing them. Yeah, in my mind, in doubt = status quo.
- legislate on / tax fastfood and industrial processed foods with sugar / bunch of salt / chemicals in them. This type of garbage food is a relatively new phenomenom in the West and one must be blind to not see that our nutrition is going to shit. So I don't give a shit, tax the fuck out of it and use this to subsidise vegetables and rice. I don't care about fat fucks who will cry freedom.

 

[Prutfis]

It s an interesting topic yet I don't have strong views on it.

My superficial approach would be :
- status quo on drugs and alcohol : the West does NOT have cultural ties with drugs. I see absolutely no need to make them legal. Why change laws for 2 % of the population that uses drugs ?
On alcohol : the West DOES have cultural ties with alcohol (beer for Germany, Belgium and UK, whisky for the UK, wine for France, etc.) and I am against changing laws on them / taxing them. Yeah, in my mind, in doubt = status quo.
- legislate on / tax fastfood and industrial processed foods with sugar / bunch of salt / chemicals in them. This type of garbage food is a relatively new phenomenom in the West and one must be blind to not see that our nutrition is going to shit. So I don't give a shit, tax the fuck out of it and use this to subsidise vegetables and rice. I don't care about fat fucks who will cry freedom.

But do the pros of legalization outweigh the cons? Seems to work very well in Portugal. They had a heroin epidemic before they tried another approach.

It´s also a lot more than 2%, especially in regards to cannabis.

 

[Prutfis]

Any sort of cell phone use while driving has been banned since 2009.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/windsor/opp-distracted-driving-death-1.4019014

Holy shit. That is pretty insane. What is it with these fucking morons who can´t get a handsfree or wait 5 fucking minutes to look at their phones. Unfortunately these pieces of shit usually don´t go out alone.

 

[irish_thug]

Holy shit. That is pretty insane. What is it with these fucking morons who can´t get a handsfree or wait 5 fucking minutes to look at their phones. Unfortunately these pieces of shit usually don´t go out alone.

Numbers went up by about 30% last year. It's going to get worse over the summer when weed gets legalized.

 

[Prutfis]

but if some illegal drugs were made legal, would they not then be bigger threats than alcohol and tobacco?

i dont know what the answer is with this problem of substance abuse. with any proposed solution, there seems to be some major drawbacks. the war on illegal drugs has obviously caused all sorts of problems.

and people may scoff at this, but i think there is another terribly devastating and addictive substance hiding in plain sight, that is destroying developed nations.......refined sugars.

See Portugal where all drugs are decriminalized

 

[nostradumbass]

Reading comprehension bro. Read it again and then understand it. No, if you have a coke buzz once every 3 months that is not going balls out or lack of moderation.

That's how it's done.

We're just using different definitions. You're using frequency and I'm using amount. Not judging, but I've known a lot of coke heads and none were able to stop at any point in the night. Once you do the first bump, you're not going to sober up at any point that night. If that were alcohol, you'd say it's a problem but because there's no such thing as black out high, we can just pretend it's maintaining.

 

[Son of Jamin]

but if some illegal drugs were made legal, would they not then be bigger threats than alcohol and tobacco?

i dont know what the answer is with this problem of substance abuse. with any proposed solution, there seems to be some major drawbacks. the war on illegal drugs has obviously caused all sorts of problems.

and people may scoff at this, but i think there is another terribly devastating and addictive substance hiding in plain sight, that is destroying developed nations.......refined sugars.

The majority of people that get addicted to drugs are poor, working-class, males with poor educational background, unemployed, have a vulnerability to mental illness. It's not your average Joe that works and lives a productive way of life.

With that said, it's hard to determine which drugs that will cause the most harm to society but I think most of the popular drugs would find it hard to go up against alcohol in that regard.

So the best way for society to move forward is to implement strategies for the group most likely to become addicted to drugs, not punishing people for using drugs that are not sanctioned by politicians.

 

[Prutfis]

Numbers went up by about 30% last year. It's going to get worse over the summer when weed gets legalized.

I don´t think weed is going to have that much of an effect.