Elections Alabama Special Senate Election Live Results Thread

44nutman said:
He was kidnapped by Nephilims.
He was exposing their nefarious plans, i.e Obama's 3rd term. I warned him.

I have said too much.
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It’s cause I exposed him. You’re welcome.
 
JosephDredd said:
More than likely, they get spurned or verbally abused by friends and family members. As recently as 50 years ago they might have been assaulted or killed, with no legal consequences, and that still happens in many parts of the world.

Society has never handled that properly and it's only through the involvement of modern laws that its punishment is kept in proportion to the "crime".



Alcoholism was perfectly societally acceptable for all of human history. Most societies relied on alcoholism because alcohol was safe to drink, whereas there water sources probably weren't. As recently as fifty years ago it was fine to drink and drive with your kids in the car. We still live in a society where there is a concerted effort by the law to discourage drinking and driving because, left to its own devices, moral society is pretty shitty at this stuff.

The only reason an alcoholic would have trouble holding a job before the law was involved was because he couldn't physically do his job. Now if you get a couple of impairment charges it could affect your employment. Nothing to do with society upholding morals.



This is wrong. For the last 2000 years of western society, what they did was not a crime. They only became crimes in the last half-century or so and society is still so accepting of these old, repulsive beliefs that they argued Moore did nothing wrong. Plenty of people came forward and talked about how Moore's actions were seen as perfectly fine back then and even flattering. If people had never gotten the law changed, we would never be having this conversation.

And as for Weinstein and the fallout from the #metoo campaign... we've had laws against sexual assault for years, but it's only now that women are able to speak out against their abusers and authorities feel pressure to take action. It is literally only now that society is using its weight to enforce any sort of morality on the subject. And there's still a huge part of society, with their old ideas of morality, pushing back against them.
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People are out of their fucking minds if they think modernization didn't come with shutting down a list of atrocities committed against women upheld by laws of their time
 
TheGreatA said:
I'm just pointing out the incorrect facts that people are riding on.

Roy Moore hypothetically having sex with a 16-year old is not statutory rape in Alabama. Not is it an act of pedophilia (see definition). And it was generally more acceptable for older men to have relations with much younger women in those days. The current prime minister of Canada was conceived as a result of his father's relationship with a woman 30 years younger (just turned 18 at the time). Along with many other similar cases.
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I am 29. Would you say it is good or bad if i were to go have sex with a 16 year old right now.

Im gonna say bad.
 
JosephDredd said:
Do you think all moral wrongs not addressed by law require consequences

Judge not, lest ye be judged yourselves?
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As a catholic, that's a pretty rediculous use of that quote bud

"Let he that is without sin be the first to cast the stone" rhetoric is 100% moral parable, not a theological lesson on how to structure legal systems

You can't be full blown "self governance" in a cohabitative world with impacts larger than the individual ethics system, that's the lesson learned by the formation of all kinds of laws and regulations extending influence on an international scale. You don't get to gas your citizens because you are king of the kingdom anymore.

Take environmental laws: any given country's low emissions standards and environmental deregulation can literally poison separate countries that they share a border with, not unlike how any one individual's ethics system can negatively impact other individuals who share their living environment.

Then take morality and ethics into extension of this relationship: if you believe murder is justified when you feel x, y or z about something, there are laws that step in and take that judgement call away from you. "Judge not" is a fucking insane way to structure lawmaking and oversight in hundreds of industries that decided to regulate in modernizing eras, often in the wake of massive disasters highlighting that gap in supervision (see the history of fire codes, health codes, factory codes, the list goes on and on)

You can debate the conditions of a "judgement" (or law) fully, that ability needs protecting, but don't try to spin armchair theology bullshit to convince posters that "to judge" actions in the world is off the table of discussion, that's some Dr Doom shit
 
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7437 said:
I am 29. Would you say it is good or bad if i were to go have sex with a 16 year old right now.

Im gonna say bad.
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I would say bad, but I wouldn't say illegal. The law is the law. If it doesn't protect 16 year olds from 30 year olds, then why should I? Well, obviously I would take a severe stance against any 16 year old that I know, from having those sorts of personal relationships. But then again, I wouldn't possess any legal power to stop them, either.

If you had a fundamental Christian up-bringing in the mid 1900's Alabama, as Moore did, I would say it's understandable, as long as you don't ever do it again.
 
TheGreatA said:
I would say bad, but I wouldn't say illegal. The law is the law. If it doesn't protect 16 year olds from 30 year olds, then why should I? Well, obviously I would take a severe stance against any 16 year old that I know, from having those sorts of personal relationships. But then again, I wouldn't possess any legal power to stop them, either.

If you had a fundamental Christian up-bringing in the mid 1900's Alabama, as Moore did, I would say it's understandable, as long as you don't ever do it again.
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So you are absolutley ok with any action taken as long as it was socially acceptable at the time. That is correct?
 
7437 said:
So you are absolutley ok with any action taken as long as it was socially acceptable at the time. That is correct?
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Obviously I did not say that I was "ok" with it. What I said is that I can "understand". Understanding does not mean acceptance or even forgiveness.

Look, we've got men here that have come over, who have married and had sex with their wives a lot younger than 16. Are we just supposed to put them in jail? And eliminate them from being able to work any sort of a visible job forever? Or maybe we can just realize that some fucked up shit happened in places like Afghanistan, and so on, and that what matters is that it won't be happening today, not on our watch.

The only thing we can truly worry about is the "today". To go back 40-50 years on a social justice crusade, is simply put, bullshit and intellectually dishonest. If Moore touched a 14 year old, that is a crime in any era and he deserved to be punished. But him going on a date with a 16 year old is not even a crime today. Whether that's right or wrong, that's simply the reality of it. It's not a crime.

If we think that it should be a crime then we should raise outrage about that instead. Rather than making up new social norms whenever it benefits our political objectives. Anyone who operates within the perimeters of the law, ought to be able to hold a government office. As long as no laws have been broken, no one can truthfully be enforced to step down.
 
TheGreatA said:
Obviously I did not say that I was "ok" with it. What I said is that I can "understand". Understanding does not mean acceptance or even forgiveness.

Look, we've got men here that have come over, who have married and had sex with their wives a lot younger than 16. Are we just supposed to put them in jail? And eliminate them from being able to work any sort of a visible job forever? Or maybe we can just realize that some fucked up shit happened in places like Afghanistan, and so on, and that what matters is that it won't be happening today, not on our watch.

The only thing we can truly worry about is the "today". To go back 40-50 years on a social justice crusade, is simply put, bullshit and intellectually dishonest. If Moore touched a 14 year old, that is a crime in any era and he deserved to be punished. But him going on a date with a 16 year old is not even a crime today. Whether that's right or wrong, that's simply the reality of it. It's not a crime.

If we think that it should be a crime then we should raise outrage about that instead. Rather than making up new social norms whenever it benefits our political objectives. Anyone who operates within the perimeters of the law, ought to be able to hold a government office. As long as no laws have been broken, no one can truthfully be enforced to step down.
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how about lets start by not voting for them. that too much to ask?
 
TheGreatA said:
Did he win the election? Miss something?

A republican just lost fucking Alabama.
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650,000 people didnt vote for moore?

would you be concerned if 650,000 voted for a guy who slaughtered people in the Rwandan genocide? I would be.
 
7437 said:
650,000 people didnt vote for moore?

would you be concerned if 650,000 voted for a guy who slaughtered people in the Rwandan genocide? I would be.
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Sure, but Roy Moore did not commit Rwandan genocide, did he? From what I gather, he is not even accused of committing rape.

There are inevitably going to be people who believe him over the accusers, when nothing has been proven in the court. Who are predisposed to believe him because of political allegiances. Even in spite of that, he still lost.

That just shows that people do react because otherwise it would've been a total wash-out for the Republican candidate.
 
kpt018 said:
Very fair, although he will most certainly help block bad policy while in office. And there is no expectation to win there anyway as this was an unusual set of circumstances to say the least. But yeah, as batshit as Moore is he would have won if he just laid off little girls. Looks like ideas such as jailing homosexuals and blatant racism isn't enough to disqualify you.

The bigger "win" for Democrats, I think, is that Trump's endorsement won't carry really bad candidates, Bannon sucks and the GOP is really in a bad place. A Trump like party instead of a Romney (or insert any intelligent respected conservative) will really get Democrats motivated to show up and keep conservatives with principles at home. I think if the party continues down this path they'll be much more beatable in future elections. It's not like they have popular policies!
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That is true. Twice Trump ate crow when he initially endorsed Luther Strange and lost then Moore and lost. Of course, living in the alternate universe that he does, he claimed he was right about everything.

I'm sure many in the Trump Cult believe that.
 
Hit-N-Run said:
That is true. Twice Trump ate crow when he initially endorsed Luther Strange and lost then Moore and lost. Of course, living in the alternate universe that he does, he claimed he was right about everything.

I'm sure many in the Trump Cult believe that.
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Did Moore lost because Trump endorsed him? Is Trump now so unpopular that you risk losing support if you are affiliated or associated with him? If that is the case and If I am a republican running for office I would cry hard if Trump started endorsing me.
 
ShinkanPo said:
Did Moore lost because Trump endorsed him? Is Trump now so unpopular that you risk losing support if you are affiliated or associated with him? If that is the case and If I am a republican running for office I would cry hard if Trump started endorsing me.
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Trump approval/disapproval among voters in the election was 48-48. So I'm not sure if he had any real impact. That does suggest, though, that Moore's individual shittiness was a relatively small factor here. A better candidate would have won, but it would have been closer than an Alabama Senate race normally would be.
 
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I heard Roy Moore's horse is upset. When the horse was a pony, Roy paid so much attention to her, constantly feeding her apples and chasing her around the farm.
Now the horse is a little older Roy hardly pays attention to her.
 
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