Agree or disagree: Phil Davis is a better LHW than Gustafsson

[conorgoat]

WAR MAULER

 

[NoBiasJustMMA]

Dont respond to my posts if you dont like them. Youre simply crying because Im speaking against one of your favorites.

Heres your straw man:

Davis has more wins against quality competition and also a win over Gus.

Davis>Gus

No, that is you making another assumption, seriously stop doing that, I don't give a shit what you think about Gus as long as you stop making assumptions and don't use straw man arguments. Make a good logical case for Davis without doing those things and i'm fine with you thinking Davis is the better fighter but you haven't done that yet.

All you had to say was "Davis has more top wins and i'm only basing my opinion on that."

That is a reasonable opinion, and not at all childish.

 

[ExitLUPin]

Disagree, I think Gus is the better overall fighter but they aren't far apart. I think there are more fighters at LHW that can beat Davis than can beat Gus. Gus has had a killer's row though which didn't help him with recent wins.

I don't see Davis beating Jones or DC or even making it competitive, they both lost to Rumble.

I think if you swap who each has fought Gus would end up with more wins and Davis with more losses.

I could see Davis being competitive with DC or Bones TBH. He wouldnt have FOTY contenders like Gus but he could make it a boring, slow paced grindfest and make it more competitive than it has a right to be like Shields against GSP.

His defensive sturiking is among the best @ LHW. Lyoto and Humble are 2 of the greatest LHW sturikers and they barely landed clean/hard shots on on him, both better in that department than Bones or DC. It would definitely make it to the scorecards, neither Bones nor DC are finishing Phil. No ones been able to or come that close and hes fought some of the best finishers in the division.

Phil is the better overall gurappler to Bones to. We saw what happened when Bones tried to gurapple Glover and Gus....he could do next to nothing. Meanwhile Phil ragdolled both of them (well with Gus when he got a favorable position near the end he finished the fight). His top game is prolly better than both and he has relentless chain wrestling arguably the best behind DC. Fighters also rarely get on the inside with him and infighting/clinch is where Bones and DC do their most damage, meanwhile Davis will be at kicking range which is his only decent offense in the standup. Hes only gotten outgrappled by Hashad really who Bones had next to no gurappling sequences against, too small a sample to draw conclusions. And Gus managed to outwrestle or at least be equal competitively with DC and Bones in that department and he learned alot of his wrestling from Phil himself.

Davis is too limited standing to win against either but i can def see him taking a round maybe 2, certainly could have a 10-10 round or 2 where not much of anything happens.

 

[moongaze]

With the way Rumble fights and his poor gas tank you could even argue it's worse to get dominated by Rumble over 15 minutes cause he normally can't do that and normally doesn't win that way.

Its not worse because it shows that you were able to withstand his power. Only guys able to do so are the better fighters. Gus couldn't even make it out of the first.

 

[NoBiasJustMMA]

I could see Davis being competitive with DC or Bones TBH. He wouldnt have FOTY contenders like Gus but he could make it a boring, slow paced grindfest and make it more competitive than it has a right to be like Shields against GSP.

His defensive sturiking is among the best @ LHW. Lyoto and Humble are 2 of the greatest LHW sturikers and they barely landed clean/hard shots on on him, both better in that department than Bones or DC.

Phil is the better overall gurappler to Bones to. We saw what happened when Bones tried to gurapple Glover and Gus....he could do next to nothing. Meanwhile Phil ragdolled both of them (well with Gus when he got a favorable position near the end he finished the fight). His top game is prolly better than both and he has relentless chain wrestling arguably the best behind DC. Fighters also rarely get on the inside with him and infighting/clinch is where Bones and DC do their most damage, meanwhile Davis will be at kicking range which is his only decent offense in the standup. Hes only gotten outgrappled by Hashad really who Bones had next to no gurappling sequences against, too small a sample to draw conclusions. And Gus managed to outwrestle or at least be equal competitively with DC and Bones in that department and he learned alot of his wrestling from Phil himself.

Davis is too limited standing to win against either but i can def see him taking a round maybe 2, certainly could have a 10-10 round or 2 where not much of anything happens.

How? They both have better wrestling and striking compared to Davis, I think it would be like the Rashad fight only worse.

 

[NoBiasJustMMA]

Its not worse because it shows that you were able to withstand his power. Only guys able to do so are the better fighters. Gus couldn't even make it out of the first.

I'm gonna just agree to disagree on that one, getting dominated over 15 minutes by Rumble is less likely to happen than getting KOed by him early. So I don't think it's that bad when a KO artist happens to get a KO, that's what he normally does when he wins.

 

[runnpray]

The top 3 @ 205 is clearly DC, Estrojones and Humble

Ppl seem to think it's a Fab 4 type scenario with Gus as the 4th man but what makes him better than Davis?

Davis

- finished Gus inside a round
- ragdolled Glover, only guy to dominate Glover gurappling
- beat Hogerio albeit in a close fight
- beat Lyoto when he was a top LHW albeit in a close fight
- finished Newton in.a round
- beat Mo albeit in a close fight

He also went 3 rounds with Humble and barely got hit clean which is an accomplishment in all honesty if we're talking about performances in a loss considering how many ppl Humble hits clean and KOs including Gus himself. Phil has weird and very effective defensive sturiking where he barely gets hit hard/clean

The Bader fight was a drawish fight couldve went either way. Neither guy showed their superiority.

Those are all top 10 caliber guys not to mention stomping guys like Stann, Boetch and Carmont who except maybe Stann were top 10 MWs at one point

Gus still gets bulk of his credit for losing

He's beaten Shogoon in a close fight
Beat Jimi in a FOTN
Beat Thiago

That's pretty much it, only a washed Shogoon was a top guy he beat

Otherwise it was ancient Diabate or Janitor or mediocre guys like Hammill and Te Huna....

At some point Gus is gonna have to start beating top fighters, he can't keep living off performances where he takes an L

Agree 100%

 

[MCS]

Davis' record is better and he beat Gus while both were green, but prime vs prime Gus is better. With the improved TDD (he largely got from training with the man himself) he's a tough match-up for Phil. I think Gus matches up well with every LHW. Davis, not so much. I can see Gus beating all of them with some footwork/defensive adjustments since he's already mostly close against the very best, whereas Davis has no hope against the top 3.

 

[PUO3]

No, that is you making another assumption, seriously stop doing that, I don't give a shit what you think about Gus as long as you stop making assumptions and don't use straw man arguments. Make a good logical case for Davis without doing those things and i'm fine with you thinking Davis is the better fighter but you haven't done that yet.

Davis has more quality wins and a win over Gus. It is a fact.

I dont think you know what you are saying. Ive stated this multiple times.

I also dont need your permission to post what I want to. No one is looking for your approval.

 

[mirko>anyone]

No. Not even close. Yes, I know Phil beat him. Gus vs Texiera next sounds good.

 

[NoBiasJustMMA]

Davis has more quality wins and a win over Gus. It is a fact.

I dont think you know what you are saying. Ive stated this multiple times.

I also dont need your permission to post what I want to. No one is looking for your approval.

Wow, your reading comprehension is terrible if that's what you think I was referring to as an assumption.

The assumption I was referring to in my last post was you were assuming that I was upset that you don't think Gus is better. I don't care if you think Davis is better, I just want you to stop making assumptions about what everyone thinks in every post and stop using straw man arguments all the time.

 

[ExitLUPin]

How? They both have better wrestling and striking compared to Davis, I think it would be like the Rashad fight only worse.

Hashad has better entries/transitions and is faster than either Bones or DC by a margin. Bones barely transitions these days hes either standup or attempting to wrestle. DC would do a better job getting inside but i dont see how Bones is going to at least consistently considering his entries, transitions and he doesnt have much of a decent jab. And at long range the fight would be competitive with at least not much happening. DC wasnt able to outwrestle Gus clearly and neither was Bones against Gus or Glover, meanwhile Davis ragdolled both. In a vacuum Bones and DC are prolly better wrestlers but H2H im not so sure specially considering Davis' defensive style.

 

[PUO3]

I'm gonna just agree to disagree on that one, getting dominated over 15 minutes by Rumble is less likely to happen than getting KOed by him early. So I don't think it's that bad when a KO artist happens to get a KO, that's what he normally does when he wins.

You simply cant accept that Davis did better than Gus did.

Using your own words, "getting dominated over 15 minutes is less likely to happen than getting KOed by him early"

Meaning, the guy who made it 15 minutes did something more impressive than the guy who got KOed early.

 

[JKS]

Disagree! Davis would never compete with Jones and Cormier who are the two clear best LHWs in the world like Gus did. And if they fought a rematch Gus would very likely beat Davis pretty clearly this time, their first fight is rather irrelevant at this point. Both my points are opinions but I see it like that.

 

[NoBiasJustMMA]

Hashad has better entries/transitions and is faster than either Bones or DC by a margin. Bones barely transitions these days hes either standup or attempting to wrestle. DC would do a better job getting inside but i dont see how Bones is going to at least consistently considering his entries, transitions and he doesnt have much of a decent jab. And at long range the fight would be competitive with at least not much happening. DC wasnt able to outwrestle Gus clearly and neither was Bones against Gus or Glover, meanwhile Davis ragdolled both. In a vacuum Bones and DC are prolly better wrestlers but H2H im not so sure specially considering Davis' defensive style.

Davis didn't ragdoll Gus and that fight was a long time ago. I just don't see Davis being competitive at all with DC or Jones, they would keep it standing and beat him up on the feet, 50-45.

 

[ExitLUPin]

Davis didn't ragdoll Gus and that fight was a long time ago. I just don't see Davis being competitive at all with DC or Jones, they would keep it standing and beat him up on the feet, 50-45.

Davis was competitive on the feet with Lyoto whos better standing than either DC or Bones specially at long range which Davis is great at keeping fights at that range with his lateral movement and kicking game. I dont see either guy 5-0ing Davis and there would def be a 10-10 round or 2 in that fight with how slow paced and inactive the long range battle would be.

 

[NoBiasJustMMA]

You simply cant accept that Davis did better than Gus did.

Using your own words, "getting dominated over 15 minutes is less likely to happen than getting KOed by him early"

Meaning, the guy who made it 15 minutes did something more impressive than the guy who got KOed early.

No, i'm not saying that, I'm saying you have to consider what type of fighter Rumble is and you didn't. I did, which is why I didn't mention that fight as they both got dominated just in different ways.

 

[NoBiasJustMMA]

Davis was competitive on the feet with Lyoto whos better standing than either DC or Bones specially at long range which Davis is great at keeping fights at that range with his lateral movement and kicking game. I dont see either guy 5-0ing Davis and there would def be a 10-10 round or 2 in that fight with how slow paced and inactive the long range battle would be.

Lyoto isn't the takedown threat that they are and he's much smaller and he doesn't have a better clinch game than Davis, Jones and DC do.

 

[PUO3]

No, i'm not saying that, I'm saying you have to consider what type of fighter Rumble is and you didn't. I did, which is why I didn't mention that fight as they both got dominated just in different ways.

One survived a decision vs knockout artist. One got knocked out.

How anyone can say that the person that made it 15 minutes did not do better than the one who got knocked out is truly mind boggling.

 

[moongaze]

I'm gonna just agree to disagree on that one, getting dominated over 15 minutes by Rumble is less likely to happen than getting KOed by him early. So I don't think it's that bad when a KO artist happens to get a KO, that's what he normally does when he wins.

Look at it this way. The people that survive those bombs from rumble are usually champs, ex champs or top fighters. Gus couldn't't even make it out the first. At least Phil could. That speaks on his chin and defense. Yeah its less likely to get dominated by an for 3 rounds because he hits hard and usually ends it early. but being on that end of it is not the same as being dominated then tkod in one round. One guy was able to withstand tough shots from aj and keep fighting back for three rounds. Another guy got his jaw busted and gave up in one round.