Agnostic totally bitchslaps new athiests, curbstomps little wantabees.

The author clearly doesn't know what atheism and agnosticism mean. He seems to have bought into the incorrect notion that agnosticism is a middle ground between Theism and Atheism. In reality, both terms are not mutually exclusive, since atheism relates to what you believe, while agnosticism relates to what you know. As a result, most atheist are also agnostics. For example, I'm an agnostic, because I don't know if there is a god, and I'm also an atheist because I do not believe there is one.

Regarding the "challenge", the question "Why is there something rather than nothing?" makes no sense, because it assumes that "nothing" is the default scenario and having "something" rather than "nothing" is an oddity. Why there should be "nothing" rather than "something"? Also, how does god answer this question, since he is a "something"? Why there is a god instead of no god?

The question is nonsensical, specially under the possibility of a multiverse scenario, where there are an infinity number of realities, including one/some with "nothing" in them.
 
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So you know for sure? You have proof for your position? Please explain .

Here is an explanation:

Non-existence is a negative claim, a negative claim is only supported by negative evidence (ie complete lack of evidence). You cannot claim that its reasonable to believe in something because there is no evidence of it not existing because a negative claim (ie absence of something) and a positive claim (the existence of something) are not supported by the same types of evidence.

Here is a hypothetical example:
What evidence do you need to make a claim that unicorns do not exist?
 
Most atheists are technically agnostic in the sense that they won't claim to be able to prove the non existence of a divine creator; they merely posit there is no reasonable basis by which one can claim a divine creator does exist given there is zero evidence to support that claim.

Agnosticism doesn't mean one must remain 50/50 on the fence either. I'm technically an agnostic about whether there is a hidden planet between Earth and Mars, but given the lack of evidence , I'd say it's unlikely.

Also, this article is 7 years old...
 
He comes off more arrogant than any "new atheist" by a lot. And he's not a very good writer. Meh, another pretender trying to make a name.
By calling people to having a more humble approach he's arrogant. Interesting.
 
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Hm? Gotten to?
 
By calling people to having a more humble approach he's arrogant. Interesting.
I think you fail to understand how that's possible in roughly the same way you fail to understand how overplaying your thread title so much makes you seem desperate.
 
Here is an explanation:

Non-existence is a negative claim, a negative claim is only supported by negative evidence (ie complete lack of evidence). You cannot claim that its reasonable to believe in something because there is no evidence of it not existing because a negative claim (ie absence of something) and a positive claim (the existence of something) are not supported by the same types of evidence.

Here is a hypothetical example:
What evidence do you need to make a claim that unicorns do not exist?
No. He is so far ahead of what you think he's saying you can't even get it.
 
Atheism and theism are on separate sides of the same coin.

Agnosticism is the only path.
 
I think you fail to understand how that's possible in roughly the same way you fail to understand how overplaying your thread title so much makes you seem desperate.
He points out how self serving, condescending and arrogant these guys are, reveled how they can't even back up what they claim and he's the one that's messed up? Interesting response from the little fanboys that have bin parroting this drivel and become insecure when it's revealed there's no substance to what gave them cool kid status .
 
Somewhere on earth there is a young child being gangraped and tortured by a group of psychopaths. If there is a god he is a vile pos
 
He points out how self serving, condescending and arrogant these guys are, reveled how they can't even back up what they claim and he's the one that's messed up? Interesting response from the little fanboys that have bin parroting this drivel and become insecure when it's revealed there's no substance to what gave them cool kid status .

You seem upset that the author of this article doesn't understand what the goals of science are, the actual positions the atheists he bashes hold, and the difference between (a)theism and (a)gnosticism.

That's not on atheist fan boys, they didn't make such elementary mistakes. That's on the shit author.
 
Somewhere on earth there is a young child being gangraped and tortured by a group of psychopaths. If there is a god he is a vile pos


Why bro? God's not the one raping kids. That's just the free will he gave us all.

Of course, he is watching the kiddies being raped and not stopping it - so that's basically aiding and abetting child rapists.

So yeah you're right, he would be a POS if he did exist.






But he doesn't. So it's all good.





Apart from all the child rape of course.
 
The author clearly doesn't know what atheism and agnosticism mean. He seems to have bought into the incorrect notion that agnosticism is a middle ground between Theism and Atheism. In reality, both terms are not mutually exclusive, since atheism relates to what you believe, while agnosticism relates to what you know. As a result, most atheist are also agnostics. For example, I'm an agnostic, because I don't know if there is a god, and I'm also an atheist because I do not believe there is one.

Regarding the "challenge", the question "Why is there something rather than nothing?" makes no sense, because it assumes that "nothing" is the default scenario and having "something" rather than "nothing" is an oddity. Why there should be "nothing" rather than "something"? Also, how does god answer this question, since he is a "something"? Why there is a god instead of no god?

The question is nonsensical, specially under the possibility of a multiverse scenario, where there are an infinity number of realities, including one/some with "nothing" in them.


You got a good point but.. There'sno doubt many "new athiests" who bang on a bit too much about religion and can get annoying. But that article was absolute garbage..
 
Agnostics are pussy fence-sitters

For quite some time a lot of people used the term 'agnostic' not only not describe themselves as holding the belief that 'we don't know' but also the belief that the existence of god or the debate about the existence of god is irrelevant for their lives. I think 'apatheism' is a more accurate term for the latter, though.

I'd sort of put myself into that category and I would claim that it has nothing to do with fence sitting. I have the same attitude towards various philosophies, political ideologies etc.
You can't think about everything. I'm not willing to read literature or work through arguments and ideas of every single philosophical belief system. Religions and the belief in god always fell into this category for me. There are so many philosophical questions and problems which are more urgent in the world we actually live in. I feel like I have spent a sufficient amount of time thinking about those issues on which I have a strong opinion on. A ton of people disagree with me but I know their arguments, I read what intellectuals on their side wrote about it, I simply ended up with a different opinion. I understand what socialism is, what intelligent people wrote about it and what their arguments and underlying philosophies are but I find counter arguments more convincing, hence I'm not a socialist.

I can't say the same about theism and I'm not willing to spend the same amount of time arguing or thinking about something that seems rather irrelevant to me. I don't call myself an atheist because I wouldn't enter a debate arguing for the non-existence of god. I probably could, simply by saying 'I haven't seen any proof' but it would feel somewhat dishonest because personally I haven't thought much about the question if there are theories or models in some areas of modern science which might make the existence of god more or less likely etc I don't even know what various intelligent theists believe these days and why
 
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Agnostics are wankers and annoy me. Everyone know what they believe as far as a god goes, these people just sit on the fence coz they are idiots.
 
http://www.slate.com/articles/life/the_spectator/2010/06/an_agnostic_manifesto.html

I would not go so far as to argue that there's a "new agnosticism" on the rise. But I think it's time for a new agnosticism, one that takes on the New Atheists. Indeed agnostics see atheism as "a theism"—as much a faith-based creed as the most orthodox of the religious variety.
So atheism, the belief that there is no god, is now a faith based belief and so a sort of theism? Has the author demonstrated that atheism is a faith based belief system or worldview?


Faith-based atheism? Yes, alas. Atheists display a credulous and childlike faith, worship a certainty as yet unsuwpported by evidence—the certainty that they can or will be able to explain how and why the universe came into existence. (And some of them can behave as intolerantly to heretics who deviate from their unproven orthodoxy as the most unbending religious Inquisitor.)
Here the author is clearly attacking the lowest common denominator of atheism. Experts in the field of philosophy of religion have written books and defended them in journals which conclude that there is no god or that the god of the major religions does not exist or that very probably god doesn't exist. Has the author refuted the arguments in these books and papers?

When the author claims that atheists are certain that they can or will be able to explain how the universe came to be, certainty here refers to psychological certainty rather than epistemic certainty. Facts about our mental attitudes towards a proposition do not affect the truth value of said proposition. Cosmologists propose explanations: self contained universes, multiverses, etc., and philosophers question the assumption that the default is something rather than nothing. So far the evidence points towards an atheistic world and science gets us close to explaining the origin of the universe. Either way not being able to explain or know the origin of the universe with epistemic certainty, as the author seems to require of us, does not mean we are not justified in believing that science or philosophy can and will get us near or to that explanation. This isn't faith, it is confidence in methods of inquire that have so far been very productive.


Faced with the fundamental question: "Why is there something rather than nothing?" atheists have faith that science will tell us eventually. Most seem never to consider that it may well be a philosophic, logical impossibility for something to create itself from nothing. But the question presents a fundamental mystery that has bedeviled (so to speak) philosophers and theologians from Aristotle to Aquinas. Recently scientists have tried to answer it with theories of "multiverses" and "vacuums filled with quantum potentialities," none of which strikes me as persuasive.
Science won't answer this philosophical question, philosophy will, or will not. But not being able to answer this question doesn't entail not being able to answer whether there is a god or not or whether specific gods exist or not. So not being able to answer this question doesn change the fact that atheiosts are justified in their belief that there is no god. Yes it is a logical impossibility for something to create itself. But the claim that there is no god or that the universe has no cause doesn't entail that the universe caused itself.

You can tell how uninformed the author is when he states that "the question presents a fundamental mystery that has bedeviled (so to speak) philosophers and theologians from Aristotle to Aquinas". The author has ignored almost 800 years of philosophical progress since Aquinas. And he states that none of the scientific theories or hypotheses scientists have put forth strike him as persuasive. Who the fook is this guy? Who care whether he is persuaded or not? What we want to know is whether these theories are confirmed or not or how probable they are, etc.


This is—or should be—grade-school stuff, but many of the New Atheists seemed to have stopped thinking since their early grade-school science-fair triumphs. I'm thinking in particular here of the ones who like to call themselves "the brights." (Or have they given up on that comically unfortunate term?) The "brights" seem like rather dim bulbs when it comes to this question. It's amazing how the New Atheists boastfully stride over this pons asinorum as if it weren't there.
Again attacking the lowest common denominator. It is also ironic because the author is wrong and confused about almost everything he has said here. He expects science to answer philosophical questions, makes invalid inferences, doesn't understand what science is, etc., so it is ironic that he thinks atheists are ignorant.


In fact, I challenge any atheist, New or old, to send me their answer to the question: "Why is there something rather than nothing?" I can't wait for the evasions to pour forth. Or even the evidence that this question ever could be answered by science and logic.
Here again the author shows his ignorance. Science or logic will might explain the universe, but the question "why is there something rather than nothing?" is a philosophical question. But since he has been ignoring all the philosophy for the past 800 years since Aquinas it doesn't surprise me that he is ignorant of proposed answers to this question. Again, why would anyone waste their time with such a presumptuous and ignorant person?
 
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Agnostics are wankers and annoy me. Everyone know what they believe as far as a god goes, these people just sit on the fence coz they are idiots.

Exactly right. No one half-practices religion and half-practices atheism. Saying "i'm agnostic" is just a cheap cop out to avoid having to defend your position against the other side
 
For quite some time a lot of people used the term 'agnostic' not only not describe themselves as holding the belief that 'we don't know' but also the believe that the existence of god or the debate about the existence of god is irrelevant for their lives. I think 'apatheism' is a more accurate term for the latter, though.

I'd sort of put myself into that category and I would claim that it has nothing to do with fence sitting. I have the same attitude towards various philosophies, political ideologies etc.
You can't think about everything. I'm not willing to read literature or work through arguments and ideas of every single philosophical belief system. Religions and the believe in god always fell into this category for me. There are so many philosophical questions and problems which are more urgent in the world we actually live in. I feel like I have spent a sufficient amount of time thinking about those issues on which I have a strong opinion on. A ton of people disagree with me but I know their arguments, I read what intellectuals on their side wrote about it, I simply ended up with a different opinion. I understand what socialism is, what intelligent people wrote about it and what their arguments and underlying philosophies are but I find counter arguments more convincing, hence I'm not a socialist.

I can't say the same about theism and I'm not willing to spend the same amount of time arguing or thinking about something that seems rather irrelevant to me. I don't call myself an atheist because I wouldn't enter a debate arguing for the non-existence of god. I probably could, simply by saying 'I haven't seen any proof' but it would feel somewhat dishonest because personally I haven't thought much about the question if there are theories or models in some areas of modern science which might make the existence of god more or less likely etc I don't even know what various intelligent theists believe these days and why
*belief
 
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