Afghan Opium Production 40 Times Higher Since US-NATO Invasion

[DespicablePeep]

It is difficult for me not to put on my tin-foil, and reason that the US government must have control of this income somehow, for them not to scorch every opium field across the nation of Afghanistan.

I understand that this could turn the populace against US agendas, but when faced with the possibility that billions of dollars are going to fund the Taliban or ISIS, this would seem to demand that we bite that bullet.

Discuss...........

countries fund their wars with drug money

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opium_Wars

And there are countless stories of CIA running the opium trade in Afgan.

 

[sub_thug]

I've always wondered why we don't just turn it into a legal market for them. Tons of painkillers are produced with opium. Why not let Afghanistan become a source for the legal medical market and give them a stable living instead of forcing them to flood the black market with heroin?

Not sure. I'm sure the pharmaceutical companies would love to have cheap supply of this stuff. There's a lot of things about international agricultural agreements and regulations that I don't understand. Maybe they think competition will lead to civil war over there?

 

[Rational Poster]

Solid point.

However, my understanding, which is admittedly quite limited, is that the Sunnah explicitly describes her as prepubescent. If this is true, then the pregnancy surely happened several years later.

https://www.sahih-bukhari.com/Pages/Bukhari_8_73.php

Volume 8, Book 73, Number 151 :
Narrated by 'Aisha
I used to play with the dolls in the presence of the Prophet, and my girl friends also used to play with me. When Allah's Apostle used to enter (my dwelling place) they used to hide themselves, but the Prophet would call them to join and play with me. (The playing with the dolls and similar images is forbidden, but it was allowed for 'Aisha at that time, as she was a little girl, not yet reached the age of puberty.) (Fateh-al-Bari page 143, Vol.13)

From my understand, they married when she was 6 and the marriage was consummated when she was 9. It seems likely she was kept under watch till she bled. It was not a particularly unusual practice for the time period, especially among the upper nobility of Eurasian people. The average lifespan was about half what it is today, even less for women, and it was not unusual for girls to begin puberty sooner.

The concept of Harem pre-dates Islam pretty much for this purpose, to keep young female isolated till they're of marriageable age and to protect the virginity of those you don't marry off. There was an incredibly high value placed on the concept of virginity in this time period and they had no real way to verify this other than keeping young girls completely isolated from males their entire lives till marriage.. and then fucking them as soon as possible so no one else could claim the coveted virginity.

For someone like Muhammad impregnating the virgin daughter of his most important political and military ally was more like a matter of necessity rather than indulgence.

 

[Jorge Luis Borges]

From my understand, they married when she was 6 and the marriage was consummated when she was 9. It seems likely she was kept under watch till she bled. It was not a particularly unusual practice for the time period, especially among the upper nobility of Eurasian people. The average lifespan was about half what it is today, even less for women, and it was not unusual for girls to begin puberty sooner.

The concept of Harem pre-dates Islam pretty much for this purpose, to keep young female isolated till they're of marriageable age and to protect the virginity of those you don't marry off. There was an incredibly high value placed on the concept of virginity in this time period and they had no real way to verify this other than keeping young girls completely isolated from males their entire lives till marriage.

I find this wholly plausible and the most likely explanation. 9 is not an unheard of age for female puberty, though it is earlier than average. Honestly, I don't really care. I only commented because you tagged me (I blame you for dragging me into this sexual quagmire!) and because it is a common enough talking point among critics of Islam.

Given that the marriage was likely a political one, I doubt Muhammed's sexual predilections were a large a part of the equation in any case.

However, it is worth noting that the actual Islamic texts stress her prepubescence in at least one passage. However, doing a half hour of reading in religious texts I am largely unfamiliar with does not make me an expert on said texts.

 

[Undying Poster]

*hebephile

@IngaVovchanchyn

No sir, you're confusing me for Muhammad. I'm a hebephile, Muhammad is a pedophile.

 

[Undying Poster]

She got pregnant from it.

You can't get pregnant till you've gone through or at least begun puberty.

She never had any children, AFAIK. Also, it would be interesting to learn exactly what it is that constitutes a pedophile or hebephile. Because even though a 9 year old could possibly enter puberty, she won't have any traits that suggest she is developed, so she would basically be a child who bleeds lol. My stepsister supposedly had her period like at 8 or 9 and she was clearly a child even though she was technically going through puberty.

And obviously someone that young wouldn't be able to deliver a child safely which is natures way of saying "way too fuckkng young"

 

[DoomPatrol]

She never had any children, AFAIK. Also, it would be interesting to learn exactly what it is that constitutes a pedophile or hebephile. Because even though a 9 year old could possibly enter puberty, she won't have any traits that suggest she is developed, so she would basically be a child who bleeds lol. My stepsister supposedly had her period like at 8 or 9 and she was clearly a child even though she was technically going through puberty.

And obviously someone that young wouldn't be able to deliver a child safely which is natures way of saying "way too fuckkng young"

There's honestly no real answer to how old Aisha actually was. I've seen decent theories that range from 6 at marriage and 9 for consummation all the way up to over 10 at marriage and closer to 17 at consummation.

With the idea of virginity being so sacred at the time, it's likely that her age was exaggerated to be younger to show just how virginal she was. On top of that, marriage and sex with girls in their early teens wasn't exactly limited to Muslims in the 600 AD period.

 

[Undying Poster]

There's honestly no real answer to how old Aisha actually was. I've seen decent theories that range from 6 at marriage and 9 for consummation all the way up to over 10 at marriage and closer to 17 at consummation.

With the idea of virginity being so sacred at the time, it's likely that her age was exaggerated to be younger to show just how virginal she was. On top of that, marriage and sex with girls in their early teens wasn't exactly limited to Muslims in the 600 AD period.

Pretty much all the accepted sources say 9 was around the age she had sex with Muhammad.

I just threw the P-word out because it's a hilarious description. I get the context surrounding it. It's 7th century Arabia. I'm not someone who thinks this was a uniquely insane situation.

 

[DoomPatrol]

Pretty much all the accepted sources say 9 was around the age she had sex with Muhammad.

I just threw the P-word out because it's a hilarious description. I get the context surrounding it. It's 7th century Arabia. I'm not someone who thinks this was a uniquely insane situation.

Except that's simply not the case. Her age is still a contested subject within Islam itself. The reality is we have no idea how old she was exactly, but that she was probably young. Academic scholars have used her sister to surmise that she was likely around 10 at the age of marriage, not 6 as suggested by less reliable sources. In the end, they just don't know.

But if he was really a pedo, then why wait several years?

http://www.muslim.org/islam/aisha-age.htm

 

[Undying Poster]

Except that's simply not the case. Her age is still a contested subject within Islam itself. The reality is we have no idea how old she was exactly, but that she was probably young. Academic scholars have used her sister to surmise that she was likely around 10 at the age of marriage, not 6 as suggested by less reliable sources. In the end, they just don't know.

But if he was really a pedo, then why wait several years?

http://www.muslim.org/islam/aisha-age.htm

I'm not an Islamic scholar so I can't prove those sources saying otherwise as wrong, but it's really telling that around the beginning of the 20th century, when movements raising the AoC were the rage, that suddenly someone finds "proof" that Aisha wasn't 6 when they married.

Pretty much every Islamist movement allows marriage at very young ages. ISIS accepts 9 year olds and quite frankly, I put a lot of faith in these kinds of movements, not because it confirms my opinion, but because people who know more than me (Religious muslims) join those movements and nobody ever disproves them. There's a reason these movements are called "fundamentalists"

ISIS pretty much justifies every action they take with a Hadith or a passage from the Quran.

 

[DoomPatrol]

I'm not an Islamic scholar so I can't prove those sources saying otherwise as wrong, but it's really telling that around the beginning of the 20th century, when movements raising the AoC were the rage, that suddenly someone finds "proof" that Aisha wasn't 6 when they married.

Pretty much every Islamist movement allows marriage at very young ages. ISIS accepts 9 year olds and quite frankly, I put a lot of faith in these kinds of movements, not because it confirms my opinion, but because people who know more than me (Religious muslims) join those movements and nobody ever disproves them. There's a reason these movements are called "fundamentalists"

ISIS pretty much justifies every action they take with a Hadith or a passage from the Quran.

I don't think it's that crazy to believe that religious documents aren't accurate representations of history.

 

[Undying Poster]

I don't think it's that crazy to believe that religious documents aren't accurate representations of history.

And you could be right. Quite frankly, I don't care if they had a relationship at that age, as I said, I just threw that word out because "Pedophile warlord" sounds hilarious to me. I guess I do care about the precedent is sets. Since Muhammad is the perfect human being, to a fundamentalist, 9 years old is good enough, beheading infidels is good enough, etc.

 

[lfd0311]

Soooo..... based on the word of some weird website.... and according to Russia? Ok, Dude....

 

[DoomPatrol]

And you could be right. Quite frankly, I don't care if they had a relationship at that age, as I said, I just threw that word out because "Pedophile warlord" sounds hilarious to me. I guess I do care about the precedent is sets. Since Muhammad is the perfect human being, to a fundamentalist, 9 years old is good enough, beheading infidels is good enough, etc.

Yeah, but even if she was 9 at the time, it's not exactly something against the norms of the entire world.

Traditional attitudes[edit]
In traditional societies, the age of consent for a sexual union was a matter for the family to decide, or a tribal custom. In most cases, this coincided with signs of puberty, menstruation for a woman and pubic hair for a man.[3] The ancient Greek poet Hesiod in Works and Days (c. 700 BC) suggests that a man should marry around the age of thirty, and that he should take a wife who is five years past puberty.

Reliable data for ages at marriage is scarce. In England, for example, the only reliable data in the early modern period comes from property records made after death. Not only were the records relatively rare, but not all bothered to record the participants' ages, and it seems that the more complete the records are, the more likely they are to reveal young marriages. Modern historians have sometimes shown reluctance to accept evidence of young ages of marriage, dismissing it as a 'misreading' by a later copier of the records.[3]

In the 12th century, Gratian, the influential founder of canon law in medieval Europe, accepted age of puberty for marriage to be around 12 (girls) and around 14 (boys) but acknowledged consent to be meaningful if the children were older than 7.[4] There were authorities that said that consent could take place earlier. Marriage would then be valid as long as neither of the two parties annulled the marital agreement before reaching puberty, or if they had already consummated the marriage. Judges sometimes honored marriages based on mutual consent at ages younger than 7: in contrast to established canon, there are recorded marriages of 2 and 3 year olds.[3]

The first recorded age-of-consent law dates from 1275 in England; as part of its provisions on rape, the Statute of Westminster 1275 made it a misdemeanor to "ravish" a "maiden within age," whether with or without her consent. The phrase "within age" was later interpreted by jurist Sir Edward Coke as meaning the age of marriage, which at the time was 12 years of age.[5]

The American colonies followed the English tradition, and the law was more of a guide. For example, Mary Hathaway (Virginia, 1689) was only 9 when she was married to William Williams.[6] Sir Edward Coke (England, 17th century) "made it clear that the marriage of girls under 12 was normal, and the age at which a girl who was a wife was eligible for a dower from her husband's estate was 9 even though her husband be only four years old."[3]

In the 16th century, a small number of Italian and German states set the minimum age for sexual intercourse for girls, setting it at 12 years. Towards the end of the 18th century, other European countries also began to enact similar laws. The first French Constitution of 1791 established the minimum age at 11 years. Portugal, Spain, Denmark and the Swiss cantons initially set the minimum age at 10–12 years.[7]

Age of consent laws were, historically, difficult to follow and enforce: legal norms based on age were not, in general, common until the 19th century, because clear proof of exact age and precise date of birth were often unavailable.[7]

In Christian societies, sex outside marriage was forbidden. Older children were often punished themselves for being complicit in sexual interaction with an adult.[citation needed] Until the late 18th century, there was little understanding of childhood as a concept, and children were seen as "little adults". Indeed, prior to the 12th century, there was virtually no notion of childhood at all.[citation needed] Christianity also deemed that children were born into the original sin, and, as such, were perceived as inherently immoral.[8] Children had very few rights and were considered the chattel of the father.[8] From the late 18th century, and especially in the 19th century, attitudes started to change. By the mid-19th century there was increased concern over child sexual abuse.[8]

 

[Undying Poster]

Yeah, but even if she was 9 at the time, it's not exactly something against the norms of the entire world.

Traditional attitudes[edit]
In traditional societies, the age of consent for a sexual union was a matter for the family to decide, or a tribal custom. In most cases, this coincided with signs of puberty, menstruation for a woman and pubic hair for a man.[3] The ancient Greek poet Hesiod in Works and Days (c. 700 BC) suggests that a man should marry around the age of thirty, and that he should take a wife who is five years past puberty.

Reliable data for ages at marriage is scarce. In England, for example, the only reliable data in the early modern period comes from property records made after death. Not only were the records relatively rare, but not all bothered to record the participants' ages, and it seems that the more complete the records are, the more likely they are to reveal young marriages. Modern historians have sometimes shown reluctance to accept evidence of young ages of marriage, dismissing it as a 'misreading' by a later copier of the records.[3]

In the 12th century, Gratian, the influential founder of canon law in medieval Europe, accepted age of puberty for marriage to be around 12 (girls) and around 14 (boys) but acknowledged consent to be meaningful if the children were older than 7.[4] There were authorities that said that consent could take place earlier. Marriage would then be valid as long as neither of the two parties annulled the marital agreement before reaching puberty, or if they had already consummated the marriage. Judges sometimes honored marriages based on mutual consent at ages younger than 7: in contrast to established canon, there are recorded marriages of 2 and 3 year olds.[3]

The first recorded age-of-consent law dates from 1275 in England; as part of its provisions on rape, the Statute of Westminster 1275 made it a misdemeanor to "ravish" a "maiden within age," whether with or without her consent. The phrase "within age" was later interpreted by jurist Sir Edward Coke as meaning the age of marriage, which at the time was 12 years of age.[5]

The American colonies followed the English tradition, and the law was more of a guide. For example, Mary Hathaway (Virginia, 1689) was only 9 when she was married to William Williams.[6] Sir Edward Coke (England, 17th century) "made it clear that the marriage of girls under 12 was normal, and the age at which a girl who was a wife was eligible for a dower from her husband's estate was 9 even though her husband be only four years old."[3]

In the 16th century, a small number of Italian and German states set the minimum age for sexual intercourse for girls, setting it at 12 years. Towards the end of the 18th century, other European countries also began to enact similar laws. The first French Constitution of 1791 established the minimum age at 11 years. Portugal, Spain, Denmark and the Swiss cantons initially set the minimum age at 10–12 years.[7]

Age of consent laws were, historically, difficult to follow and enforce: legal norms based on age were not, in general, common until the 19th century, because clear proof of exact age and precise date of birth were often unavailable.[7]

In Christian societies, sex outside marriage was forbidden. Older children were often punished themselves for being complicit in sexual interaction with an adult.[citation needed] Until the late 18th century, there was little understanding of childhood as a concept, and children were seen as "little adults". Indeed, prior to the 12th century, there was virtually no notion of childhood at all.[citation needed] Christianity also deemed that children were born into the original sin, and, as such, were perceived as inherently immoral.[8] Children had very few rights and were considered the chattel of the father.[8] From the late 18th century, and especially in the 19th century, attitudes started to change. By the mid-19th century there was increased concern over child sexual abuse.[8]

I'm aware my dude, I don't know how much clearer I can make it

 

[Jorge Luis Borges]

There's honestly no real answer to how old Aisha actually was. I've seen decent theories that range from 6 at marriage and 9 for consummation all the way up to over 10 at marriage and closer to 17 at consummation.

With the idea of virginity being so sacred at the time, it's likely that her age was exaggerated to be younger to show just how virginal she was. On top of that, marriage and sex with girls in their early teens wasn't exactly limited to Muslims in the 600 AD period.

From a historical perspective perhaps. But since we are discussing religion, her age seems set in stone from a theological standpoint. She was 6 when she was engaged and 9 when the marriage was consummated according to Islamic religious sources.

 

[DoomPatrol]

From a historical perspective perhaps. But since we are discussing religion, her age seems set in stone from a theological standpoint. She was 6 when she was engaged and 9 when the marriage was consummated according to Islamic religious sources.

That's true, and Jesus was perfectly fine with Christians fucking and marrying 10-14 year olds at the same time. They were all doing it.

 

[Jorge Luis Borges]

That's true, and Jesus was perfectly fine with Christians fucking and marrying 10-14 year olds at the same time. They were all doing it.

Actually, Jesus' opinions on marriage ages are unrecorded and not part of Christian religious texts or traditions. Your personal speculation as to his views simply don't compare in weight to the Sunnah related to Muhammed's marriage and are irrelevant in such a discussion.

However, it is relevant to note that several major historical investigations have shown that women in the earliest era of Christianity stood out from their peers in the Roman Empire due to their substantially older average marrying age. So while you are correct that some Christians were "fucking and marrying" girls at rather tender ages, they can be separated out as being substantially less likely to do so than the culture at large in which the early church existed:

"The quantitative data are based on several studies of Roman inscriptions, combined by Hopkins (1965a), from which age at marriage could be calculated. Hopkins also was able to separate these Roman women on the basis of religion. He found that pagans were three times as likely as Christians to have married before age 13 (10 percent were wed by age 11). Nearly half (44 percent) of pagans had married by age 14, compared with 20 percent of Christians. In contrast, nearly half (48 percent) of Christian females had not wed before age 18..."

https://roosevelt.ucsd.edu/_files/mmw/mmw12/RodneyStarkReconstructingRiseofChristianityWomen.pdf

 

[method115]

Make all drugs legal and this problem will fix itself

#warondrugs

Yea but then they can't fund all the projects they dont want us knowing about.