Law Affirmative Action Abolished: U.S Supreme Court Outlaws Racial Discrimination In College Admissions.

Ok, and herein lies the problem with your reasoning.

AA by its very nature IS discrimination based on race.

You support a system that is discriminatory to its core and then complain that it's discriminatory.

If you don't like AA, why don't you have the balls to just admit it?
It's isn't discrimination based solely on race. Race is just 1 factor.

Folks typically focus on the racial aspect of AA, and especially associate AA with Blacks.

- Going by raw numbers, more Whites get AA than Blacks and Native Americans combined.

- Women get AA. And as such White women are the majority of AA recipients. Some White guys even have their business under a female family member, to make use of AA.

- Hispanics get AA. There are more Hispanics in the US than Blacks. A large % of Hispanics are White or self-identify as White. Prior to the 1970s, the US census classified Hispanics as White.

All these Hispanics, are eligible for Affirmative Action :
Cameron Diaz,
Desi Arnaz (co-lead actor of the classic sitcom I love Lucy),
Ted Cruz,
Marco Rubio,
Director Guillermo Del Toro (Pan Labyrinth , Shape of Water),
Giselle Bundchen (German ancestry Brazilian supermodel and Tom Brady's wife),
Geraldo Riviera (talk show host, Jewish Cuban)
former President of Mexico Vicente Fox would be eligible for AA if he moved to the US.
2nd or 3rd richest man in the world Carlos Slim (Mexican of Lebanese ancestry) would be eligible for AA if he moved to the US. He owns a substantial stake of the NYT.
Los Angeles Mayor Eric Garcetti, who is Jewish Hispanic

There are tons of everyday Hispanics who look like Southern Europeans , and many that look Northern Europeans. A White male does get Affirmative Action, if he can claim Hispanic cultural background.
Both @Rod1 and @ElKarlo are Hispanic posters who are White.
 
Didn't you say in a thread some months back that you were Mexican of White ancestry? Or that you look White?

Looking white and being white are pretty different things.

I have light skin and a lot of european features, but white is a social construct and going by the American one drop rule im not white.

One isnt white in Mexico, one has "white skin" as a feature.

There is a picture of me in the Mayberry thread.
 
I didn't say I supported AA. I said most Asians still support it. Again - learn how to read.

And I'm Asian retard. You're saying I'm racist against myself?

You've clearly internalized your oppressors morality. read Genealogy of Morals it will explain a lot.
 
Looking white and being white are pretty different things.

I have light skin and a lot of european features, but white is a social construct and going by the American one drop rule im not white.

One isnt white in Mexico, one has "white skin" as a feature.

There is a picture of me in the Mayberry thread.
Technically speaking: White = European and MENA according to US census. Realistically, White = if you look European. Ultimately it comes down to phenotype, which generally aligns with genotype.

I don't really understand how you can say one isn't White in Mexico. Mexico's elite look White , along with the elites of most of South America. Mexico does have a caste system, with fully European (Criollos) or mostly European ancestry dominating the upper echelons. How is Vincente Fox not White? Salma Hayek and Carlos Slim are both White, since both are Caucasoid and US census classifies Levantines as White. Now the average American probably does not see Lebanese as White, but if they can pass, then they are assumed to be White. No one says Ralph Nader, Ray Lahood, Shia Lebouf are not White. And look at Guillermo Del Torro, that guy would be seen as White by all Americans.

Before the 70s, Hispanics were White, thought in the 30s Mexican was classified as a race but LULAC (League of United Latin American Citizens) protested and stated Mexicans were White.The Mexican label was removed from Census racial categories.
 
I was reading something about educating the elite and I think it's relevant to this discussion.

The foundation:


Now the relevant question:


And the insightful answer:



It's illustrative of just how uninformed most of us are about what drives these admissions decisions. While people are focusing on the academic standards, the elite colleges are looking for a baseline of academics and then elite performance in other ventures.

I'm going to add an entire separate post about how the college counselors at high schools actually shape which kids are getting accepted and rejected from the elite colleges based on criteria that we're not actively talking about.

Probably the biggest take away I've gotten from my recent reading is the extent to which elite high schools play a larger role in shaping who eventually rises to positions of wealth and power within this nation. While people are discussing getting into elite colleges re: future outcomes, the prep schools are wielding outsized influence on those outcomes.

For example - 90% of high school kids attend public schools, yet 40% of elite college attendees come from private schools. 10% of the high school community is providing 4x the representation at elite colleges. Moreover, some of these prep schools are sending 25%+ of their students to those schools. Yet these kids are not outperforming the public school kids at the collegiate level (they do eventually make more money than them though).

Anyway, the whole thing is fascinating and more and more supportive of the idea that while Asian Americans might not be getting into elite colleges at a rate commensurate with their academic output - it's probably not because of discrimination against them or Affirmative Action. It's because academic output isn't as valuable in the admissions decisions as college applicants are led to believe
It's not fascinating and it isn't nuanced until you can prove that the non-Asians are getting in because of other factors. Why do you assume that non-Asians participate and excel in extra-curricular activities at a higher rate than Asians? From my own experience (I attended a school that was ~75% Asian), Asians were more likely to play an instrument, attend clubs and attend academic competitions. The only thing they didn't do at a higher rate than others was play sports.

And in the end, the discrepancy is high enough to show that it is obviously discrimination against Asians and whites. You can make up whatever bullshit you want about it, but it's so clear as day that those people are being rejected at higher rates than others. And one might say that they are just helping blacks/hispanics, but when the number of positions is limited then it really is just discriminating against others.
 
@MicroBrew thanks for the shout out
I'm mixed though. My dad is white, and I pass as white. Was told by an Israeli soldier thst I look like a Bulgarian . Which falls in your souther. European.
And yes I use Aa, or did when. I loved in the US
 
Was told by an Israeli soldier thst I look like a Bulgarian

rusev-angry.jpg
 
People would just think you are Italian or another Southern European ethnic.

People can think what they want, i refuse to pick a side in the non-sense that its XIX century racialism.

So lets simply put is as "i look white" or "Im mainly of caucasian heritage", but i wont deny the fact that as most Mexicans im just a mongrel.
 
People can think what they want, i refuse to pick a side in the non-sense that its XIX century racialism.

So lets simply put is as "i look white" or "Im mainly of caucasian heritage", but i wont deny the fact that as most Mexicans im just a mongrel.
I mentioned you and the case of White Hispanics because I recall you saying you had benefited indirectly or directly from from looking White in a society where it is advantageous to be White. Ofcourse these weren't your exact words but the gist of what you were saying (to the best of my recollection).
 
I mentioned you and the case of White Hispanics because I recall you saying you had benefited indirectly or directly from from looking White in a society where it is advantageous to be White. Ofcourse these weren't your exact words but the gist of what you were saying (to the best of my recollection).

No doubt about it, im considered to be more attractive, wealthier and educated based on how i look from birth and thus i get preferential treatment in a lot of places.

But saying "Im white" sounds like im denying the native heritage.
 
Actually, I didn't say anything about the Asian kids specific extracurriculars. You commented that Asian kids have extracurriculars too - with the implication that I had said the Asian didn't have ANY extracurriculars. That wasn't what I said so I explained it in greater detail. Part of how you end up with lower academic scores in students is because they have unusual or rare extracurriculars and that raises their value. Harvard still has to field a football team, basketball team, soccer team, gymnastics squad, golf team, tennis squad, track and field group, theater interests, alongside the math, chess, computer, robotics, etc. clubs. So, pointing to things are relevant to the 2nd group, like SAT scores, is problematic if someone is ignoring the school's needs for the 1st group.

I used instruments as an example of an extracurricular, not as a fact about Asian specific extracurriculars. Lots of people play instruments - they don't all play the same instrument. I, for example, played piano and when I got to college I was surprised how many other kids had also played piano - it wasn't as unique or interesting as I'd thought it would be. My niece plays the violin - another over done instrument. We're not Asian. Would you have felt better if I'd used the tambourine and maracas?

Of course, you should probably question why you're making these raced based categorizations instead of nitpicking the instruments in a general example? Moving on.

These are liberal arts colleges, not technical ones. They are not interested in providing purely the best math/science scoring outcomes - they are interested in providing a fully rounded liberal arts education to kids who have interests in that broad range of liberal arts interests. Put another way, they need students interested in majoring in English, theater, philosophy, art history and such. People cannot ignore those needs and limit the conversation to SAT scores because SAT scores are just a part of what schools are looking for.

If it could be shown that black applicants had to score 400 more SAT points (on a 1600 scale) and 2 letter grade higher GPAs to get into college, would you be OK with that?

And would you accept the college avoiding discrimination charges by using the same justifications you are -- that the discrepancy is OK because too many black people play the piano?
 
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DOE Chief: Increasing diversity at specialized schools is a ‘moral obligation’
By Selim Algar | June 5, 2018

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Department of Education chief Richard Carranza said Tuesday the current enrollment system at the city’s specialized high schools has created racial monopolies — and implementing changes is a “moral” issue.

Appearing on Fox 5’s “Good Day New York,” Carranza was asked if a plan to diversify them will pit Asians — who currently predominate at the elite eight — against other minorities.

“I just don’t buy into the narrative that any one ethnic group owns admission to these schools,” Carranza said.

Carranza said the existing system has created a black and Latino enrollment drought at the coveted schools — and that boosting their numbers is a “moral” matter.

“We are systematically excluding students in the most diverse city in the world from opportunities,” he said. “In this particular case, specialized schools. I think we have a moral obligation.”

Under the current admissions structure, entry is awarded based on scores on a single standardized exam for all eight schools, including top-tier Stuyvesant High School, Bronx Science and Brooklyn Tech.

In packaging their proposal, Carranza and Mayor Bill de Blasio have leaned on the fact that colleges like Harvard take multiple metrics into account when vetting applicants.

Carranza added that there are roughly 160 similar specialized high schools around the country and that the single-test system is only used in New York City.

“Why should it be that in our schools in a city as diverse as New York City, you have one test score that determines whether or not you can go to the schools?” Carranza said Tuesday, adding that the approach is a “fool’s errand.”

A former teacher in his hometown of Tucson, Carranza argued that testing alone is an insufficient indicator of talent.

“Black and brown kids can’t compete?” Carranza asked. “Or is there something wrong with the system that’s not casting a wide enough net.”

Asian-American groups have already marshaled opposition to the proposed changes, arguing that a significant portion of their kids in the specialized schools are not products of privilege but rather preparation.

A rally against the changes is scheduled at City Hall this afternoon.

The chancellor — who has made increasing the number of blacks and Latinos in perennially white and Asian schools a top priority — said he was troubled by racially charged rhetoric beginning to bluster around the issue.

“I’m very concerned about those in the community who want to pit groups against each other,” he said.

When host Rosanna Scotto interjected that Asian groups were independently voicing their resistance, Carranza said other groups need to be heard.

“How do black students feel?” he asked. “How do Latino students feel?”

Carranza also suggested that yet another dug-in bloc has a vested financial interest in ensuring the primacy of the single-test system.

“Let’s also look at who benefits from test prep,” he said. “There’s a cottage industry in this city and I’ve heard a lot of those voices come out against this as well.”

https://nypost.com/2018/06/05/incre...ized-schools-is-a-moral-obligation-doe-chief/
 
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Asian Groups See Bias in Plan to Diversify New York’s Elite Schools
By Elizabeth A. Harris and Winnie Hu | June 5, 2018

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Asian activists rallied in front of City Hall on Tuesday to protest Mayor Bill de Blasio’s plan to revamp admissions to the city’s specialized high schools, which they say unfairly targets them.

A new plan to change the way students are admitted to New York’s elite public high schools is infuriating members of some Asian communities who feel they will be pushed aside in the drive to admit more than a handful of black and Latino students.

But in a series of forceful statements on Tuesday, Richard A. Carranza, the schools chancellor, offered a blunt rebuttal to their claims. “I just don’t buy into the narrative that any one ethnic group owns admission to these schools,” he said on Fox 5 New York.

The battle revealed the charged emotions around who gets access to highly sought-after seats at the prestigious institutions, which include Stuyvesant High School and Brooklyn Technical High School.

“The test is the most unbiased way to get into a school,” said Peter Koo, a city councilman whose district includes Flushing, Queens, on Tuesday. “It doesn’t require an interview. It doesn’t require a résumé. It doesn’t even require connections. The mayor’s son just graduated from Brooklyn Tech and got into Yale. Now he wants to stop this and build a barrier to Asian-Americans — especially our children.”

The schools, which admit students based on a single test, look starkly different from the school system overall. While black and Hispanic students represent nearly 70 percent of public school students, they make up just 10 percent of students at the specialized high schools, a vast underrepresentation that has long been considered an injustice and a symbol of the city’s extreme school segregation.

Asian students, on the other hand, are overrepresented at the schools. While just 16 percent of public school students are Asian, they make up 62 percent of students at the specialized schools. White students also make up a disproportionate share of the students, though by a much smaller margin. They are 15 percent of the system overall and 24 percent of students at specialized schools.

Mayor Bill de Blasio offered a two-pronged plan on Saturday to address this, first by setting aside 20 percent of the seats at each of the specialized schools for students from high-poverty schools — which tend to have a high share of black and Hispanic students — who score just below the cutoff score.

But his administration’s ultimate goal, he said, is to eliminate the test entirely. In its place, top students would be chosen from every middle school in the city, a determination that would take into account their class rank and scores on statewide standardized tests. This move would require state action, because a state law dictates how specialized schools admit their students. The original law names just three schools, but the city has since created five more.

At a news conference on Monday, more than 100 people gathered in a second-floor dining room at the Golden Imperial Palace in Sunset Park, Brooklyn, to declare that the proposal was an attack on Asian-Americans.

“I’m not sure if the mayor is racist, but this policy is certainly discriminatory,” said Kenneth Chiu, chairman of the New York City Asian-American Democratic Club. “It’s like the Chinese Exclusion Act, is what I think,” he continued, comparing the plan to a 19th-century immigration law that effectively prohibited Chinese immigration. “Our mayor is pitting minority against minority, which is really, really messed up, to put it nicely.”

On Tuesday, a rally was held outside the gates of City Hall, where protesters held signs that said “End Racism” and “I Have a Dream.”

Soo Kim, president of the Stuyvesant Alumni Association, said that while the schools are often described as elite, the children who attend them exist worlds away from the lives of the 1 percent. Many of the students — and indeed, many of the Asian students — who attend specialized schools are poor. Many of them go to years of test prep in order to earn scores good enough to gain admission.

“I have dozens of emails from my members who say, ‘My dad was a taxi driver,’ or, ‘We ran a green grocer,’” Mr. Kim said. “Stuyvesant is an option for those who have no option. They don’t know how to interview or influence their way into the right public schools or the right private schools.”

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On Tuesday, Richard Carranza, the New York City schools chancellor, went on television and radio to push the mayor’s plan

Mr. Carranza went out on Tuesday to push the new plan. “The data is very clear,” Mr. Carranza said on television. “We are systematically excluding students in the most diverse city in the world from opportunities, in this particular case in specialized schools.”

He offered a stark figure: Of 900 incoming freshman admitted to Stuyvesant, only 10 are African-American. He also said that while there are more than 600 middle schools in New York City, half of specialized students come from just 21 middle schools. He said that looking at a student’s academic record was a “much more holistic way of looking at student ‘talent’” than a single test.

"As the mayor has very, very eloquently stated, we’re not trying to penalize anybody,” Mr. Carranza said on WNYC. “This should be good news for our poor, our immigrant communities, that you’re not going to have to spend thousands of dollars on test prep for one test to get an opportunity to go to a specialized school.”

Mr. Carranza emphasized that relying on one test was out of step with admissions to other elite institutions. “If you’re applying to Harvard today, you would not be admitted based on a test score,” Mr. Carranza said. “It’s multiple measures.” (He might have chosen a different school to cite as an example: Harvard University is being sued by a group that says the school discriminates against Asian-American applicants.)

The mayor’s plan does have a basis in research. A study by Sean P. Corcoran, an associate professor of economics and education policy at New York University’s Steinhardt School, examined six strategies to diversify the specialized schools and found that taking students from every middle school was the only one that had a large effect on demographics. It also found that plan would lower the academic performance of admitted students, a key argument of those in favor of retaining the test. But a similar study, by Lazar Treschan at the Community Service Society, which included a minimum academic standard applicants must achieve, found no such diminution.

The city’s proposal also includes an academic minimum. Students must be among the top 25 percent of performers citywide. An education department spokesman said the city’s projection found that students admitted under its proposed model would have the same grades as current specialized students, and that their state test scores would be virtually unchanged.

The specialized schools carry enormous symbolic weight in the city, and a seat in one of them is seen as a glittering prize. They are among the most distinguished schools in the city, some on par with elite and expensive private schools, and they offer a real pathway out of the working class for many families.

Nonetheless, their impact is actually quite narrow. Of the more than 300,000 high school students citywide, just 16,000 attend these schools. And there are many other schools that screen students academically, like Eleanor Roosevelt High School in Manhattan, where just 16 percent of students are black or Hispanic. Sixty-four percent of the students there are white, and just 21 percent of its students are poor.

Changing admissions at schools like Eleanor Roosevelt would make more sense, argued some opponents of the plan. “Why go to Albany on three schools,” said Mr. Kim, “when you can fix those schools right now.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/05/nyregion/carranza-specialized-schools-admission-asians.html
 
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