Actors that crushed it as heroes and villains

Magooglie said:
You didn't even know there were nazis in Captain America the first avenger. And then you started talking about the War of 1812. Talk about not being on point!
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Tony can have all the money in the world, bang all the models, but Cap's decision left him a lonely loser who has to marry his employee and hang out with a 16 year old. And that 16 year old rebels against him constantly because he wants to be a good person like Captain America. Tony hasn't grown up. He's just become insular. He's in a prison of his own making. He couldn't even call Cap or find out where his robot slave was when the world was in danger because of his shame of being the bad guy. Rhodey regrets ever siding with Tony and is really happy to see Cap.

If Murderers can't be rehabilitated in your point of view then Stark can't be rehabilitated. In Zemo's point of view killing the murderer Stark was the only possible response. If you're not willing to agree with Zemo that Stark is the villain then you're a coward. It's as simple as that. Vendetta takes precedent over everything. Tony is the villain and Zemo is a man.

As for me, Bucky can be rehabilitated and he was rehabilitated. We know that, because that's what happened. Bucky didn't start murdering people again consciously proving to the audience that Stark was right and he's a danger beyond rehabilitation. He got saved and helps kids in Wakanda. We get those results because Captain America was the hero. The person trying to stop him, Tony Stark, was the villain. Luckily for Stark, Cap also believes that Stark could be rehabilitated, that's why he didn't decapitate him with his shield. And Stark is a tougher case than Bucky. Stark was conscious of his decisions and not just brainwashed. You already said he was the villain in AoU and he tried to murder Falcon. But Cap is willing to give Stark the murderer and villain a chance to come back.
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Where did I say that? Please, quote the post I said there were no Nazis in CA:FA. In fact, find a single post in this Thread where I even mention First Avenger. Take your time, I'll wait:rolleyes:

I've forgotten more about the MCU than you will ever know. You're trying to argue with me about a movie who's plot you couldn't even describe correctly,

"T'Challa forgave Bucky for killing his father".

You sound as retarded as the journalist who asked Sam Jackson how it felt to co-star in The Matrix. Jackson actually wore a t-shirt after that with, "I am not Laurence Fishburne!" printed on it<45>

Actually, I don't blame Zemo for trying to destroy the Avengers after he lost his family in Sokovia. The rules of Vendetta still apply. If Happy Hogan had been brainwashed by Hydra to kill Bucky, do you really think Cap would have given a free pass? Like Hell. He would have done anything to avenge his boyfriend's death.

Tony didn't tell Vision to kill Falcon. Vision misjudged not only his aim but the power of the Mind Stone. When all three are on the ground and Tony is kneeling by his best friend's crippled body, he knocks Falcon the fuck out. He could just as easily have killed him.

Lol at calling the world's greatest, "Genius, billionaire, playboy philanthropist" a lonely loser. Tony has more money than God, is about to marry the woman he loves and is considering starting a family. And Spider Man, one of the greatest Heroes in Comic Book history, idolises Tony. Stark is his role model, not Rogers.

Tony summed it up in Avengers.

"A hero? Like you? You're a lab experiment, Rogers. Everything special about you came out of a bottle".
 
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KnightTemplar said:
Really? America fought Canada in the War of 1812. Does that mean the Canadians are Nazis?

Cap's only plan was to protect his boyfriend at all costs. No matter how many innocent lives he had taken. Including the parents of a man who had also fought beside him and regarded him as a friend. It's not a heroic effort. It's pure selfishness.

And Iron Man was seriously Nerfed in that final battle. They had to write it so that Cap and Bucky would survive. That was the only possible outcome. So Iron Man, who can stand and bang with Thor, gets taken down by Bucky and his boyfriend. The same Captain America who Tony had to save from Loki in Avengers.

The only thing stronger than the Iron Man suit is Plot Armour:rolleyes:
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Stop it.

Iron Man cant hang with Thor and you know it. The only reason it was even competitive was because the lightning gave him a 300% power boost.

Stop it.

The "taking innocent lives" part isnt at all accurate. Bucky didnt kill anyone. Winter Soldier did. Theyre two completely separate personalities and more than that, Bucky had zero control over his actions.

Zero. Its like the "Why are you hitting yourself" big brother taunt multiplied by a million percent. Youre not actually hitting yourself if you have no control over our actions.

Stop this. Just stop.
 
Bob Gray said:
Stop it.

Iron Man cant hang with Thor and you know it. The only reason it was even competitive was because the lightning gave him a 300% power boost.

Stop it.

The "taking innocent lives" part isnt at all accurate. Bucky didnt kill anyone. Winter Soldier did. Theyre two completely separate personalities and more than that, Bucky had zero control over his actions.

Zero. Its like the "Why are you hitting yourself" big brother taunt multiplied by a million percent. Youre not actually hitting yourself if you have no control over our actions.

Stop this. Just stop.
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And the only reason Cap can stand with Iron Man is PED's that would make Overeem blush. That and his boyfriend tag-teaming Stark at just the right time. Tony would have killed either of them one on one.

Semantics. His victims are still dead. And if it was your mother he killed, would you give a fuck? I certainly wouldn't. It's the same pathetic excuse used by cowards to justify treating schizos with kid gloves even after they've cut an innocent person's head off. There's no difference between a mad dog and a mad human. Both should be put down. And I love dogs, so it gives me no pleasure to say that.
 
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Tom Cavanagh. He played Harrison Wells, the season one Big Bad of The Flash. After the evil version of Wells was killed, Cavanagh has played several different versions of Wells from different parts of the Multiverse. All of them have been, "good". For a given value of good at any rate; the second Wells was willing to betray Barry Allen in order to rescue his daughter from Hunter Zoloman, the Big Bad of Season 2. He also killed a prisoner in order to gain his powers to use against Zoloman, but since the shit-bag was a serial killer anyway, that's hardly unforgivable.
 
Loiosh said:
Not going to lie, all I remember about Wild at Heart was glorious naked Laura Dern.

And I saw that movie twenty times.
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Come on bro, Wild at Heart has a lot of the most memorable shit ever in it

 
KnightTemplar said:
And the only reason Cap can stand with Iron Man is PED's that would make Overeem blush. That and his boyfriend tag-teaming Stark at just the right time. Tony would have killed either of them one on one.

Semantics. His victims are still dead. And if it was your mother he killed, would you give a fuck? I certainly wouldn't. It's the same pathetic excuse used by cowards to justify treating schizos with kid gloves even after they've cut an innocent person's head off. There's no difference between a mad dog and a mad human. Both should be put down. And I love dogs, so it gives me no pleasure to say that.
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Rabies is an incurable disease (at that point) so its a poor analogy. "Mind Control" in the context of these movies is a totally separate thing. They are literally 100% not responsible for their actions.

The serum is roiding now? C'mon, man. This is silly.

If it were my mother obviously Id feel different. Luckily, as a society we decided to attempt to apply a set of rules and laws objectively, which means not letting the most bereaved of victims dole out punishments to the criminals.
 
Bob Gray said:
Rabies is an incurable disease (at that point) so its a poor analogy. "Mind Control" in the context of these movies is a totally separate thing. They are literally 100% not responsible for their actions.

The serum is roiding now? C'mon, man. This is silly.

If it were my mother obviously Id feel different. Luckily, as a society we decided to attempt to apply a set of rules and laws objectively, which means not letting the most bereaved of victims dole out punishments to the criminals.
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Which has always been a major weakness in First World countries, as it often results in the punishment not fitting the crime. The Law isn't Justice. It's what you get in place of Justice.

Look, you said Iron Man could only stand and bang with Thor because the God of Thunder gave him a massive power up via lightning strike. Sorry, but that's like saying Werdum only beat Cain in Mexico City because Cain didn't have a long enough training camp to get used to the altitude. It may be true, but it's certainly not Werdum or Stark's fault. You fight the guy in front of you, and if he makes a silly mistake, you damn well exploit it.

And yeah, the Super Soldier Serum is Juicing with the Knobs Turned up to 11. I'll quote Stark again from the first Avengers movie,

"You're a lab experiment, Rogers. Everything special about you came out of a bottle".
 
MrFeeny said:
Heath Ledger. Knights Tale and Batman
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i was gonna say that..first person to come to mind he was so good as the joker..also how he turned the bitch around in ten things i hate about you
 
Zer said:
Come on bro, Wild at Heart has a lot of the most memorable shit ever in it

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Heh, I was kidding. The film is awesome.

Just saying, Laura Dern was smoking hot in it.
 
KnightTemplar said:
Where did I say that? Please, quote the post I said there were no Nazis in CA:FA. In fact, find a single post in this Thread where I even mention First Avenger. Take your time, I'll wait:rolleyes:

I've forgotten more about the MCU than you will ever know. You're trying to argue with me about a movie who's plot you couldn't even describe correctly,

"T'Challa forgave Bucky for killing his father".

You sound as retarded as the journalist who asked Sam Jackson how it felt to co-star in The Matrix. Jackson actually wore a t-shirt after that with, "I am not Laurence Fishburne!" printed on it<45>

Actually, I don't blame Zemo for trying to destroy the Avengers after he lost his family in Sokovia. The rules of Vendetta still apply. If Happy Hogan had been brainwashed by Hydra to kill Bucky, do you really think Cap would have given a free pass? Like Hell. He would have done anything to avenge his boyfriend's death.

Tony didn't tell Vision to kill Falcon. Vision misjudged not only his aim but the power of the Mind Stone. When all three are on the ground and Tony is kneeling by his best friend's crippled body, he knocks Falcon the fuck out. He could just as easily have killed him.

Lol at calling the world's greatest, "Genius, billionaire, playboy philanthropist" a lonely loser. Tony has more money than God, is about to marry the woman he loves and is considering starting a family. And Spider Man, one of the greatest Heroes in Comic Book history, idolises Tony. Stark is his role model, not Rogers.

Tony summed it up in Avengers.

"A hero? Like you? You're a lab experiment, Rogers. Everything special about you came out of a bottle".
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Did you finally watch the movie and notice the nazis? I noticed you're not spazzing about them anymore. Congrats on watching the First Avenger Mr. War of 1812.

You're trying to argue with me about concepts you don't even understand. Trying to sate bloodlust isn't heroic. Lol at "rules of vendetta." That doesn't even make you a man, that makes you the equivalent of a gangbanger or a thug. Welcome to the ghetto. Maybe you haven't noticed, but Cap and T'Challa were trying to stop the cycle of violence. Do I think Cap would have murdered Happy Hogan? No. He would have tried to rehabilitate him. He could have cut off Stark's head for all the crazy shit he did do, Tony Stark, the person you called the villain of AoU. But he didn't. He let Stark imprison himself in his mind and gave him a phone. You don't blame Zemo, but you feel he needed the villain comeuppance. Don't try to weasel out now. You know him and Stark are parallel characters. You can claim gangbanger code guides them and claim it to be man code all you want but they're the villains.

Tony comes back a little when Rhodey gets crippled. He knows he's going too far. That's why he only knocks out Falcon at that point. That's why he decides to meet Cap at the facility. But then he loses his mind again. As I keep saying, it's a story of a guy going from hero to villain due to the erosion of his mind. He doesn't even know where Vision is after Civil War. It's well done by Marvel and RDJ.

Tony needs to start a family because he's only going to have more friends if he makes them, with a woman on his pay roll. He needs that level of control of his out of control life. He found Spidey first and made a kid fist fight Cap, but the way Spidey acts is more like Cap. Then he tries to control Spidey by bribing him with tech.
Maybe you're twisted enough that you think being a genius, billionaire, playboy, philanthropist makes you a good man. Philanthropist could be a symptom of being a good man, it could also be a symptom of being a billionaire. A billionaire that made his money war profiteering. It's a great comeback line in avengers. But we find out it's his curse over the course of the rest of the MCU. He has book smarts, money, employees, women, women that are employees but his ability to dictate his moral compass is lost. He goes from the star hero of the show to a villian and now a lonely loser. That's his tragedy. Can he come back? Cap gave him that option. Cap didn't chop off his head and give in to the cycle of violence.

As for what Cap has. Maybe you didn't see First Avenger after all:
 
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Tom Hiddleston obviously as Loki
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Thought he did great as the swashbuckling hero type in Skull Island too
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KnightTemplar said:
You're lecturing me on Zemo's motivation and character when you didn't even know until I pointed it out to you that it was Zemo who killed killed T'Challa's father, not Bucky?

{<jordan}

Lonely loser? Stark wants to wife Pepper because he's smashed more LA 9's than you, I and the rest of Sherdog will have in our entire lives. That's not a challenge for him anymore(much like kicking your ass in this thread isn't for me;)).

Remember the opening scene from Iron Man? Of course you don't, since you don't even know which character murdered the King of Wakanda in Civil War. So let me help you out,

Airman, "Sir, I have a question. Is it true you went 12 for 12 with last year's Maxim cover models?

Tony, "That is an excellent question! Yes and no; March and I had a scheduling conflict. But fortunately the Christmas issue was twins".

Tony has grown up. He's found a woman he not only wants but loves and respects. Meanwhile Cap has to settle for snogging the niece of the dead woman he loved. Yeah, nothing at all creepy about that, Captain Weinstein...:eek:

Murderers can't be rehabilitated. The people they murder aren't coming back to life. On an objective level, as a comic book fan, of course I don't want Bucky dead. For one thing, he's probably going to end up replacing Evans in Phase 4. From Tony's point of view, killing Bucky was the only possible response. I'll say it again, as your comments in this Thread have proven you have a remarkably poor memory: if you're not willing to kill the man who murdered your parents, and anyone who tries to stop you, then you're a coward. It's as simple as that. Vendetta takes precedent over everything. That doesn't make Tony the villain. It makes him a man.
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Guy seems to be confusing antagonist with villain.
 
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