Actors that crushed it as heroes and villains

[Plutoburn]

Gary Oldman

You could argue though that most of his best performances are as either badguys or at least morally grey characters, his straight heroes tend to be a bit bland IMHO.

Edge of TMR has a good character arc. One of his better good guy character.

 

[MadSquabbles500]

But which is which?!

Well he went from closeted homo underdog cowboy to incel up and coming Joker.

 

[Bob Gray]

No doubt the power up helped. Even before that, Stark put Thor on his arse twice; first when he Rugby tackled him away from Loki and then when he hit him with a Repulsor blast the first time. In any case, since when is using your opponent's strength and power against him a bad thing? It's a basic tenant of many Martial Arts.

Yeah, Point Break crushed part of his armour, which I agree was very impressive. But Stark was still standing and banging when Cap showed up. Cap's shield hit both of them; he was breaking up the fight, not rescuing Stark.

Again, Stark's response in Civil War is the only one any man could make in so awful a scenario,

"I don't care, he killed my Mom".

Objectively, you're correct in that Bucky isn't morally responsible, since he was brainwashed by Hydra. Tony, quite rightly, didn't give a shit. That doesn't make him the Villain. It makes him a human being. In his position, I'd have done exactly the same. Any man who wouldn't is either a coward or simply didn't love his mother in the first place.

Im not blaming Stark for his reaction. I understand it. Im saying his emotions being strong doesnt make them justified, which seems to be your position.

Objectively, you're correct in that Bucky isn't morally responsible, since he was brainwashed by Hydra. Tony, quite rightly, didn't give a shit.

Awesome. Say something, then immediately contradict it in the next sentence.


If you agree with me why the hell are you arguing about it and bringing up some totally unrelated crap about belief in God and the justice system of first world countries?

"I don't care, he killed my Mom".

Thats the thing. He didnt. Tony would literally be murdering a completely innocent man. All this "any man that loves his mother" crap is deflecting from the very obvious point that you literally just agreed with. Bucky didnt kill Starks mother.

Hawkeye got brainwashed in Avengers and nobody blames him for any of the shit he did while under Lokis control. Including Tony.

 

[Magooglie]

God, you're pathetic. You're attempting to lecture me on MCU characters when you can't even remember basic facts, plot points and character interactions. Such as who killed T'Chaka in Civil War. And I'm still waiting for you to quote the post which you claim proves I didn't even know there were Nazis in First Avenger. Guess I'd better not hold my breath waiting, huh?

If you don't at least try to kill the man you know murdered your mother, you're a coward. Pussies forgive. Real men avenge.

In the words of my former avatar,

View attachment 383537

Attempting to lecture you? I just did and you couldn't counter anything I said. You thought it was inconceivable that Nazis and Tony Stark could be bound together in some way. You thought it was inconceivable there was a link between the 3 (them and Cap) and started spazzing out about it and the war of 1812 for some reason. Tell me more about your 1812 theory. C'mon i'm waiting! You tried to claim it didn't make sense. But Cap is the hero of goodness in both situations and those that opposed him are the villains. Zemo killed T'Chaka in Civil War. You don't even undestand T'Challa's journey to ending the cycle of violence. You admitted that Zemo is the villain and then I proved Tony and Zemo are parallel characters and both villains. You couldn't counter that, instead just saying you understand Zemo. Villains can be understandable, that's cool. I'm not against understandable or relatable villaims. You didn't even understand the whole good man speech in First Avenger. You think Cap was arbitrarily chosen. No, he was chosen for a specific quality. You could not counter my explanation of that or Tony's origins which you thought equaled him to being good like Cap. You really were jerking it to Red Skull too much you went blind. You didn't even refute that. You have a fascination with a red faced Nazi guy that you probably think was the hero of First Avenger. Your responses are just empty posts of half insults and half stuff I already talked about. You didn't even contest me accepting your concessions. We know you lack the moral compass because yours is that of a street hood and that impacts your ability to comprehend what you are watching. I asked before what you're confused about, and it's very clear that you don't even know what a hero is or what a villain is.

As for who forgives, let's see.
Cap forgave Tony for trying to murder Bucky and Falcon and have his super hero friends beat up his super hero friends. He forgave Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver for helping Tony's Murder Robot.
Falcon forgave Tony for trying to murder him and imprisoning him.
Hawkeye forgave Black Widow for being a Russian assassin fighting against Shield.
Black Widow forgave Bucky for shooting her and forgave brainwashed Hawkeye for all the stuff he did for Loki.
Banner forgave Scarlet Witch for things they did to him including killing innocent people.
Scarlet Witch forgave Stark for murdering her parents.
Rhodey forgave Vision for shooting him and Tony for getting him paralyzed.
Thor forgave Loki for a whole bunch of shit that involves killing a whole punch of people.
Black Panther forgave Zemo for killing his dad and Killmonger for killing Uncle James and inciting a Civil Brawl.

These people are the heroes. Or, I guess for you they're the pussies, since you don't understand anything about the MCU's character trajectories and moral platform. They're also all of Captain America's friends and are loyal to him. Notice how Stark is on the forgivee end for some of them for bad guy villain shit he did? Even Stark realized that he was the villain in Civil War and is no longer trying to actively murder Bucky. Hmm, what is he now? Billionaire, playboy, philanthropist, pussy? It has a certain ring to it. He was defeated by the hero, Captain America, who he thought was going to decapitate him because that's what he as villain Stark would have done, but instead left him a prisoner of his mind. Cap gave him a get out of jail free card, where he could leave that prison, but he's still too ashamed to use it.
Your defense of your argument has fallen so flat and limp that you can't say "But Tony is relatable!" anymore. Yeah I think he's relatable. But, as I said, villains can be relatable. You can't argue against the fact that the MCU is on the side of rehabilitation. You couldn't counter Bucky becoming a good guy after his rehabilitation. You now have to start attacking the very being of the heroes. You've lost the plot. Or to paraphrase from Fast and the Furious, you never had the plot.
Notice how i'm talking about things from the movies instead of just saying "I know about the movies!" If you know about the movies, prove it. But you can't. Because you can't comprehend them.

I suppose you'll respond by not addressing anything I actually wrote, trying to throw in some insults, and adding a gif. If that's what you're going to do:

 

[minute bull]

 

[Skarr]

Viggo Mortensen.

was good as the villain Mr Brooks too

Al Pacino, Christopher Reeve, Eminem lol, Mark Wahlberg, Ray Liotta, Kiefer and Donald Sutherland, Christopher Walkin

 

[Magooglie]

Hero in the sex tape, villain as Kanye's wife?

 

[Fugazy]

Kilmonger was by far, the worst part of that movie.

I mean this as a serious critique.

I love the movie, I think it gets better on re-watch and I see it as one of the top MCU movies.

But Kilmonger, yeesh.

Terrible lines that were overwritten, and laborious to deliver. That's on the writers though. Michael B's delivery throughout the movie was poor as well. Too much face scrunching, his voice was flat and dull and he talked with his teeth. They really should have passed his lines through a filter to add some sharpness to them and told him to back off the facial expressions by about 30%.

+ he'll always be Wallace, man.

WHERE THE FUCK IS WALLACE??

 

[KnightTemplar]

Im not blaming Stark for his reaction. I understand it. Im saying his emotions being strong doesnt make them justified, which seems to be your position.



Awesome. Say something, then immediately contradict it in the next sentence.


If you agree with me why the hell are you arguing about it and bringing up some totally unrelated crap about belief in God and the justice system of first world countries?

Ton

Thats the thing. He didnt. Tony would literally be murdering a completely innocent man. All this "any man that loves his mother" crap is deflecting from the very obvious point that you literally just agreed with. Bucky didnt kill Starks mother.

Hawkeye got brainwashed in Avengers and nobody blames him for any of the shit he did while under Lokis control. Including Tony.

Because it was Bucky who ran Tony's parent's car off the road. It was Bucky who smashed in Tony's father's face, while he was begging him to save his wife. And it was Bucky who strangled his mother to death. While she was in agony from a car crash and had just watched her husband being beaten too death. The fact he wasn't morally responsible for his actions doesn't change any of that.

Some sins can't be forgiven. Not by the victims. That's why Stark's reaction was entirely justified. I'd have done the same thing. Hell, in Stark's place, just killing Bucky wouldn't have been enough; I would have tried to cripple Bucky, then made him watch while I killed Rogers in front of him. Only when Bucky had watched the person he loved most in the world die at my hands would I finally have killed him. In other words, I'd have wanted him to suffer exactly the same kind of pain and loss as my mother. Compared to what I'd have done in that situation, Tony was positively restrained.

If a police officer killed someone I loved in a tragic accident, I would kill him. The fact he was neither legally nor morally responsible for their deaths wouldn't even be a consideration for me. You kill someone I love, if you're very, very lucky, I'll only kill you. If you're unlucky, you will hear someone you love curse your name before you die. With their last, gurgling breaths.

 

[KnightTemplar]

Attempting to lecture you? I just did and you couldn't counter anything I said. You thought it was inconceivable that Nazis and Tony Stark could be bound together in some way. You thought it was inconceivable there was a link between the 3 (them and Cap) and started spazzing out about it and the war of 1812 for some reason. Tell me more about your 1812 theory. C'mon i'm waiting! You tried to claim it didn't make sense. But Cap is the hero of goodness in both situations and those that opposed him are the villains. Zemo killed T'Chaka in Civil War. You don't even undestand T'Challa's journey to ending the cycle of violence. You admitted that Zemo is the villain and then I proved Tony and Zemo are parallel characters and both villains. You couldn't counter that, instead just saying you understand Zemo. Villains can be understandable, that's cool. I'm not against understandable or relatable villaims. You didn't even understand the whole good man speech in First Avenger. You think Cap was arbitrarily chosen. No, he was chosen for a specific quality. You could not counter my explanation of that or Tony's origins which you thought equaled him to being good like Cap. You really were jerking it to Red Skull too much you went blind. You didn't even refute that. You have a fascination with a red faced Nazi guy that you probably think was the hero of First Avenger. Your responses are just empty posts of half insults and half stuff I already talked about. You didn't even contest me accepting your concessions. We know you lack the moral compass because yours is that of a street hood and that impacts your ability to comprehend what you are watching. I asked before what you're confused about, and it's very clear that you don't even know what a hero is or what a villain is.

As for who forgives, let's see.
Cap forgave Tony for trying to murder Bucky and Falcon and have his super hero friends beat up his super hero friends. He forgave Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver for helping Tony's Murder Robot.
Falcon forgave Tony for trying to murder him and imprisoning him.
Hawkeye forgave Black Widow for being a Russian assassin fighting against Shield.
Black Widow forgave Bucky for shooting her and forgave brainwashed Hawkeye for all the stuff he did for Loki.
Banner forgave Scarlet Witch for things they did to him including killing innocent people.
Scarlet Witch forgave Stark for murdering her parents.
Rhodey forgave Vision for shooting him and Tony for getting him paralyzed.
Thor forgave Loki for a whole bunch of shit that involves killing a whole punch of people.
Black Panther forgave Zemo for killing his dad and Killmonger for killing Uncle James and inciting a Civil Brawl.

These people are the heroes. Or, I guess for you they're the pussies, since you don't understand anything about the MCU's character trajectories and moral platform. They're also all of Captain America's friends and are loyal to him. Notice how Stark is on the forgivee end for some of them for bad guy villain shit he did? Even Stark realized that he was the villain in Civil War and is no longer trying to actively murder Bucky. Hmm, what is he now? Billionaire, playboy, philanthropist, pussy? It has a certain ring to it. He was defeated by the hero, Captain America, who he thought was going to decapitate him because that's what he as villain Stark would have done, but instead left him a prisoner of his mind. Cap gave him a get out of jail free card, where he could leave that prison, but he's still too ashamed to use it.
Your defense of your argument has fallen so flat and limp that you can't say "But Tony is relatable!" anymore. Yeah I think he's relatable. But, as I said, villains can be relatable. You can't argue against the fact that the MCU is on the side of rehabilitation. You couldn't counter Bucky becoming a good guy after his rehabilitation. You now have to start attacking the very being of the heroes. You've lost the plot. Or to paraphrase from Fast and the Furious, you never had the plot.
Notice how i'm talking about things from the movies instead of just saying "I know about the movies!" If you know about the movies, prove it. But you can't. Because you can't comprehend them.

I suppose you'll respond by not addressing anything I actually wrote, trying to throw in some insults, and adding a gif. If that's what you're going to do:

You certainly can post retarded shit all day. Unfortunately, quality is not the same as quantity. And when it comes to quality, your posting is on the same level as the pedophile-looking motherfucker in your avatar.

Seriously, bro, either upgrade to a proper Av or just go with the Dog. That shit of yours is eye-cancer

I lost the plot? Son, you couldn't even remember the plot of Civil War. This is what you said,

T'Challa forgave Bucky for killing his father.

This is the equivalent of saying, "Obi Wan killed Dooku in Revenge of the Sith". It's a mistake so glaring, so pitifully, painfully stupid, that it instantly removed any credibility from your subsequent posts. Your opinions are as worthless as, I strongly suspect, every other aspect of the depressing, pointless existence you tragically attempt to dignify with the term, "life". That's why I stopped bothering to argue with you. One does not argue with retards. One simply kicks and throws rocks at them until they start to drool, scream and soil themselves in impotent rage <Lmaoo><45>

Still waiting for you to quote the post where I mentioned CA:FA. You know, the one you said proves I didn't even know there were Nazis in the movie? I'm sire you'll be able to locate it sooner or later...



But hey, I know we shouldn't be too cruel to God's, "special little children". So here's something to get you through the night. Sleep well, my friend, and dream about getting sloppy seconds from Cap or Bucky

 

[minute bull]

 

[Idonotbelieveit]

Hopkins as lecter
Best performance ever

 

[HunterSdVa29]

Defoe as the good guy in the Hunter or Boondock Saints, he killed it as the bad guy in To Live and Die in LA and others

 

[RollSonnenRoll]

Excellent. Talk about polar opposite of pure evil and then one of the most heartfelt, genuine characters ever put on screen.

 

[HunterSdVa29]

Jason Isaacs is the new Commander on Star Trek Discovery and a good guy in Black Hawk Down....and played two of the all time GOAT villains in elder Malfoy and my dude Col Tavington

 

[Magooglie]

You certainly can post retarded shit all day. Unfortunately, quality is not the same as quantity. And when it comes to quality, your posting is on the same level as the pedophile-looking motherfucker in your avatar.

I lost the plot? Son, you couldn't even remember the plot of Civil War. This is what you said,

T'Challa forgave Bucky for killing his father.

This is the equivalent of saying, "Obi Wan killed Dooku in Revenge of the Sith". It's a mistake so glaring, so pitifully, painfully stupid, that it instantly removed any credibility from your subsequent posts. Your opinions are as worthless as, I strongly suspect, every other aspect of the depressing, pointless existence you tragically attempt to justify with the term, "life".

Still waiting for you to quote the post where I mentioned CA:FA. You know, the one you said proves I didn't even know there were Nazis in the movie?

But hey, I know we shouldn't be too cruel to God's, "special" people. So here's something to look at to get your through the night

View attachment 383853

Fighter bashing. That's Wanderlei in my avatar you goon.

I didn't say you lost the plot, I said you never had the plot! You can't even read correctly.
T'Challa didn't murder Zemo when you think a real man should have since Zemo killed T'Chaka. So I wrote the wrong name, I find it funny several posts later that's one of the two things you can argue about because you were simply crushed by everything else.
"You just put Iron Man in the same box as the Nazis." Clearly if you watched first avenger you'd know Cap fought the nazis. But you didn't. And then you tried to claim that invalidated my argument since you lack comprehension skills. You didn't even know that Cap is good. You said "So what?" That's another point where I knew you didn't watch First Avenger. He has a good moral compass, that makes him the hero, and those that oppose him are the villains. I would like to hear more about the War of 1812. Pretty please! I'm asking nicely. LOL, what a stupid argument you tried to form. Also, i'm not your "sire," that would be super duper uber embarrassing for me if I sired you. I don't know why you would include this line in your edit, i'm not interested in filling the role of parental figure for you: I'm sire you'll be able to locate it sooner or later...

Now that that's out of the way. Counter these points. All of them. I'm waiting. Don't disappoint me like you've disappointed your parents, unless you do want me to be your dad, then disappoint me, son!:

Spoiler

You thought it was inconceivable that Nazis and Tony Stark could be bound together in some way. You thought it was inconceivable there was a link between the 3 (them and Cap) and started spazzing out about it and the war of 1812 for some reason. Tell me more about your 1812 theory. C'mon i'm waiting! You tried to claim it didn't make sense. But Cap is the hero of goodness in both situations and those that opposed him are the villains. Zemo killed T'Chaka in Civil War. You don't even undestand T'Challa's journey to ending the cycle of violence. You admitted that Zemo is the villain and then I proved Tony and Zemo are parallel characters and both villains. You couldn't counter that, instead just saying you understand Zemo. Villains can be understandable, that's cool. I'm not against understandable or relatable villaims. You didn't even understand the whole good man speech in First Avenger. You think Cap was arbitrarily chosen. No, he was chosen for a specific quality. You could not counter my explanation of that or Tony's origins which you thought equaled him to being good like Cap. You really were jerking it to Red Skull too much you went blind. You didn't even refute that. You have a fascination with a red faced Nazi guy that you probably think was the hero of First Avenger. Your responses are just empty posts of half insults and half stuff I already talked about. You didn't even contest me accepting your concessions. We know you lack the moral compass because yours is that of a street hood and that impacts your ability to comprehend what you are watching. I asked before what you're confused about, and it's very clear that you don't even know what a hero is or what a villain is.

As for who forgives, let's see.
Cap forgave Tony for trying to murder Bucky and Falcon and have his super hero friends beat up his super hero friends. He forgave Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver for helping Tony's Murder Robot.
Falcon forgave Tony for trying to murder him and imprisoning him.
Hawkeye forgave Black Widow for being a Russian assassin fighting against Shield.
Black Widow forgave Bucky for shooting her and forgave brainwashed Hawkeye for all the stuff he did for Loki.
Banner forgave Scarlet Witch for things they did to him including killing innocent people.
Scarlet Witch forgave Stark for murdering her parents.
Rhodey forgave Vision for shooting him and Tony for getting him paralyzed.
Thor forgave Loki for a whole bunch of shit that involves killing a whole punch of people.
Black Panther forgave Zemo for killing his dad and Killmonger for killing Uncle James and inciting a Civil Brawl.

These people are the heroes. Or, I guess for you they're the pussies, since you don't understand anything about the MCU's character trajectories and moral platform. They're also all of Captain America's friends and are loyal to him. Notice how Stark is on the forgivee end for some of them for bad guy villain shit he did? Even Stark realized that he was the villain in Civil War and is no longer trying to actively murder Bucky. Hmm, what is he now? Billionaire, playboy, philanthropist, pussy? It has a certain ring to it. He was defeated by the hero, Captain America, who he thought was going to decapitate him because that's what he as villain Stark would have done, but instead left him a prisoner of his mind. Cap gave him a get out of jail free card, where he could leave that prison, but he's still too ashamed to use it.
Your defense of your argument has fallen so flat and limp that you can't say "But Tony is relatable!" anymore. Yeah I think he's relatable. But, as I said, villains can be relatable. You can't argue against the fact that the MCU is on the side of rehabilitation. You couldn't counter Bucky becoming a good guy after his rehabilitation. You now have to start attacking the very being of the heroes. You've lost the plot. Or to paraphrase from Fast and the Furious, you never had the plot.
Notice how i'm talking about things from the movies instead of just saying "I know about the movies!" If you know about the movies, prove it. But you can't. Because you can't comprehend them.

You're probably like, wait, that's Magooglie's whole post! Well yeah, you avoided the whole thing numbnuts. Have you countered anything in that post yet, made an argument against it, wrote anything that is at the very least sensible and not pure dog shit? No? I thought so. Have you watched First Avenger yet, closely this time, paying attention to the themes. Don't just whack off to Red Skull and then go blind. I know it's fun for you, but that's no use to anybody else. I'm giving you a get out of jail free card if you just watch it and say there were Nazis fighting Cap and it matters that Cap is a super powered good man.

You've become so sad and predictable that I accurately predicted 99% of your response: You responded by not addressing anything I actually wrote, trying to throw in some insults, and adding a gif. I gave myself -1% because you did a pic instead of gif.
Wait, wait, you added in gifs in an edit after I responded. I'm 100% right. Geez kid, you're like a self fulfilling prophecy. You could have kept me a little wrong, but you had to make me completely right. As a sherdog poster that makes you a really weird bozo. But as my new son, and me as your new father, I thank you.

Thanks for the pic of Cap kissing Bucky. Very heartwarming. Though I do think both of them double teaming the villain Tony Stark is a lot more exciting. Look at Tony on his knees taking those shots.

 

[Bob Gray]

Because it was Bucky who ran Tony's parent's car off the road. It was Bucky who smashed in Tony's father's face, while he was begging him to save his wife. And it was Bucky who strangled his mother to death. While she was in agony from a car crash and had just watched her husband being beaten too death. The fact he wasn't morally responsible for his actions doesn't change any of that.

Some sins can't be forgiven. Not by the victims. That's why Stark's reaction was entirely justified. I'd have done the same thing. Hell, in Stark's place, just killing Bucky wouldn't have been enough; I would have tried to cripple Bucky, then made him watch while I killed Rogers in front of him. Only when Bucky had watched the person he loved most in the world die at my hands would I finally have killed him. In other words, I'd have wanted him to suffer exactly the same kind of pain and loss as my mother. Compared to what I'd have done in that situation, Tony was positively restrained.

If a police officer killed someone I loved in a tragic accident, I would kill him. The fact he was neither legally nor morally responsible for their deaths wouldn't even be a consideration for me. You kill someone I love, if you're very, very lucky, I'll only kill you. If you're unlucky, you will hear someone you love curse your name before you die. With their last, gurgling breaths.

Why are you so unable to understand something so simple? Bucky didnt kill his parents. It was Hydra who did every single thing you mentioned. You literally agreed with this in your last post.

Is Hawkeye responsible for his actions when he was under Lokis control?

 

[Goonerview]

Hulk Hogan

 

[minute bull]

Here's my impression of Sherdog debates.