accepting rank from non-black belts

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by Steve08, Oct 25, 2015.

  1. Steve08 American Fedor Belt

    Steve08
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    Is there any precedent for this? It is not too uncommon for purple or brown belts to run classes, and I don't think those people are necessarily illegitimate instructors simply by virtue of their rank. At the same time, I am wondering if ever those people are justified in giving out stripes (or a full belt), or is it simply the law of the land that you must wait for the black belt who promoted them to make that decision himself?

    One may argue that the purple/brown belt who teaches them every day would be more familiar with that student (not just as a BJJ player, but as a person) than the black belt. But, one may also argue that the black belt's superior experience would make his decisions more informed than that of his advanced students.

    tl;dr: would you personally consider a stripe and/or a blue belt awarded to a white belt by an experienced purple or brown belt instructor to be illegitimate?

    Discuss.
     
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  2. These Two Hands Our revenge will be the laughter of our children

    These Two Hands
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    Stripes no, belts yes. Where I go at least. I'm not very world-wisened in the BJJ scene though.
     
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  3. AnotherOldGuy Purple Belt

    AnotherOldGuy
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    Well, Kano had no rank so the whole judo chain is based on a beginning of accepting rank from someone without a blackbelt. And I suspect the same is true for the beginning chain of BJJ ranks ... the system has to bootstrap itself at some point.
     
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  4. lts5025 "What the **** is a Dim Mack?"

    lts5025
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    I've trained under colored belts when I lived out in the boonies and no black belt instruction was available. Stripes were no big deal and given out as the instructor saw fit. By IBJJF regulations, belt promotions have to be signed off by a black belt, but there's no requirement for the black belt to personally examine the student's development. I would say most simply take the junior instructor decision as good enough evidence.
     
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  5. Exbawks Blue Belt

    Exbawks
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    Belts should be handed out by a legit blackbelt, I wouldn't feel right accepting it from a non blackbelt.
     
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  6. BJ@LW&WW Gold Belt

    BJ@LW&WW
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    i believe there is either a rule or a unspoken rule in bjj that you have to be at least two ranks above the person your promoting to promote them if you're not a black belt.

    i.e. a brown belt couldnt promote someone to purple.

    I think a brown belt giving someone their blue belt is totally reasonable.
     
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  7. CrazyN8 Custom Title

    CrazyN8
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    I got my blue from a black belt I never even rolled with, only met him twice. I really got it from my main instructor who is a brown, all good with me.
     
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  8. FierceRedBelt Black Belt

    FierceRedBelt
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    Agreed.
     
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  9. lechien Gold Belt

    lechien
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    In an ideal world, one would wait until he becomes a bb to run their own club.
    Now for many reasons, people end teaching with a bn.
    Some of them are teaching with the approval of a bb.
    Some of them would let their affiliate promote their students themselves. Some of them will require to promote themselves.
    I have seen club that went rogue and promote their students with no bb blessings
     
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  10. Steve08 American Fedor Belt

    Steve08
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    Thanks for the comments guys!
    I don't like the IBJJF.

    I have never competed for them, but if I did, I'd probably like them even less.

    Cool though. I attended a class today which was not taught by a black belt (all have my experience has been under brown or black belts, otherwise) and was pleasantly surprised. I think I would still prefer to be taught by a black belt, but my eyes were opened.
    This is true.

    Even Helio was a white belt, once. And his father was probably not what we would consider to be a Black Belt in Jiu Jitsu today.
    I agree.
    Thanks for your insight, I was hoping to hear from you knowing that you are not only a black belt but also a club owner.

    By going rogue, do you mean it was a school ran by say a purple belt who decided to promote people on their own?

    I can see this knowing that most purples have enough knowledge of BJJ to qualify as an instructor, at least for beginner classes-- as such it may be easy for that person to buy a black belt to defraud people who don't know any better. That's sad to me.
     
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  11. BJJ_Rage Gold Belt

    BJJ_Rage
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    a brown can promot tilll blue, purples cant promote anyone.

    there colored belt instructors that are way better than lots of black belts.
     
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  12. deadlizard cold blooded

    deadlizard
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    Not cool. But it's split based on the person.

    When ari gives belt vs trumptdan giving belts. Reaction differs
     
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  13. lechien Gold Belt

    lechien
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    They went rogue and the main instructors are still purple belts. They have self promoted themselves.
    But they have promoted some students to blue and purple.
    They do not trust any bb.
     
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  14. BJJ Coffee Drinker Amateur Fighter

    BJJ Coffee Drinker
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    what do you mean they went rogue? they sound like idiots so far. Also what do you mean they do not trust any BB?
     
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  15. lechien Gold Belt

    lechien
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    They got rid of their old bb instructor when they realise that he was planning to fleece them for the rest of their lives.
    They enquired around and find out that affiliations come with lot of expenses.
    I don't blame them. Once you get burned, you are likely to be cautious about others bb.
    You know how it is.
    They want to have monthly affiliations fees. Come over for seminars, merchandising, placing their instructor on your site.
    The usual stuff...
     
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  16. Calibur Jiu Jitsu Snob

    Calibur
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    I started in 2001.

    At the time, it was acceptable for a Carlson Gracie student to promote up to the level below their rank.

    My coach was a brown belt and he promoted people to purple.

    This was common!

    They were supposed to "ask" for permission but it was more like

    "Valo, Dave who is the new blue belt guy?"

    "Oh, hey Carlos! I promoted him. That cool???"

    "Yeah that's good! Imma sure he strong guy! When's lunch????"

    Simple.

    Gracie Barra even stated on their website that lower belts could promote to the rank below if there were no black belts in the area. This was back in 2007.

    Now everyone just assumes that it's always been black belts promoting, ignoring the fact that America was a bjj wasteland a decade ago, not to mention all over Europe.

    I actually miss those days, because now we have people being promoted to black belt level too quickly to facilitate sales in an open market. If some guy in Nowhere Kansas opens a school in an area with rich parents and no competition that dude will get promoted to black belt ASAP no matter how he grapples because he is a cash cow. There is no incentive to be a better grappler anymore.

    That's because people would rather get promoted by a terrible black belt then a more skilled purple.
     
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  17. smart.feller Beer Drinker

    smart.feller
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    I don't have an issue with it. I don't think anyone should be promoting anyone to their same belt, but I have no issues with a purple promoting someone to blue. If that blue sucks, it reflects on the person who promoted them.
     
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  18. ziggyholiday White Belt

    ziggyholiday
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    My coach says the same except you could promote to your level, meaning a blue could promote you to blue. That's how it was. I find it funny that there are outspoken black belts today that think you should only train with black belts but admit they started schools when they were blues themselves.

    I'd rather train with a black belt, no doubt. But if it came to it (and it has) I would train with a colored belt or even start my own group. Though that wouldn't be my first choice ever.
     
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  19. lonewolf210 Orange Belt

    lonewolf210
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    Up until the beginning of this year my instructor was a brown belt and he would promote people to blue and a few to purple. He would normally wait until we had a seminar with a black belt but he would also promote people with out them. He could have had his black belt a while ago though and kept waiting because he wanted to go to Brazil to receive it from his original instructor.

    I don't have any issues with it especially because he usually waited until the people where having competition success at their current level before promoting them. We also use green belts though, so who knows. As long as I have good training partners I'm happy.
     
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  20. sb413197 Red Belt

    sb413197
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    The BJJ rules promotion rules are kinda weird. I mean, you're a 4-stripe brownbelt and can't figure out when a guy is ready to get his blue, then you get your blackbelt and you can promote up to brown. Oh well, guess there has to be some sort of standard, and everyone knows BJJ tries hard to fight dropping standards so it's probably not a bad thing
     
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