Abortion...

[electricfuneral]

I.e. using contraception for all their and their partner's fertile life.

If people choose not to reproduce, in most cases they are doing the world a favor.

 

[Limbo Pete]

I.e. using contraception for all their and their partner's fertile life.

Yikes

 

[Thurisaz]

If people choose not to reproduce, in most cases they are doing the world a favor.

We have quite a different view about what's good for the world. Possibly because I think about the ones I know choose not to reproduce instead of imagining it would be a great idea in population explosion areas.

 

[Limbo Pete]

agreed here. What is the point of the contraception if they still get preggers?

"Imagine, if you will, a world in which contraception is only allowed if you also get pregnant at some point."

 

[Prutfis]

You can't find one scientist claiming that the fetus isn't alive since conception or that it isn't human by virtue of DNA.

Funny that you think "consensus" is some sort of magic word that tells truth value of a claim.

You like to change definitions a lot. Life != alive.. Flowers are alive, doesn´t mean they have a life.

Many endorse the view of the U.S. National Academy of Sciences (NAS), which states that the existence of human life at conception is “a question to which science can provide no answer.”

https://www.wired.com/2015/10/science-cant-say-babys-life-begins/

Like I said no real concensus on the matter exists. Is a zygote alive? yes ofcourse, it´s organic material. Is it a human life? That´s where the waters get muddy, at least in the scientific community.

 

[electricfuneral]

"Imagine, if you will, a world in which contraception is only allowed if you also get pregnant at some point."

It is a double win situation. Condoms will sell more often because you use them no matter what. Sex has been even further monetized.

 

[Thurisaz]

"Imagine, if you will, a world in which contraception is only allowed if you also get pregnant at some point."

So, have you done your duty and gotten pregnant lately?

 

[Limbo Pete]

So, have you done your duty and gotten pregnant lately?

 

[JonnyRingo84]

I'm pro life. Never really cared one way or the other until I had kids.

There are exceptions- incest babies, danger to the health of the mother -but beyond that it seems like a easy way out for poor morals. Its ending a life, I don't see how people see it any other way.

im kinda undecided on abortion. one thing that ive never understood though, if a fetus is a living thing with rights, then why should it matter how it was conceived (rape/incest)?

 

[Oiler]

It's is not about convenience, it is about the rights to one's own body. I would say that until a fetus can survive without it's mother, it does not have it's own rights.

I am pro choice, but barely.

My problem with this argument is that as technology improves, viability will be earlier and earlier. Kind of arbitrary in a way. Today viability is 6 months (or whatever it is). In 10 yeats it will be 3 months.

 

[m52nickerson]

I am pro choice, but barely.

My problem with this argument is that as technology improves, viability will be earlier and earlier. Kind of arbitrary in a way. Today viability is 6 months (or whatever it is). In 10 yeats it will be 3 months.

I would say that you measure viability for abortion without the use of technology.

 

[Thurisaz]

You like to change definitions a lot. Life != alive..

A life is, by definition, alive. And I used both terms correctly from the start, nincompoop.

Flowers are alive, doesn´t mean they have a life.

Let's see what the dictionary states on that:

Definition of life
plural
lives
play \ˈlīvz\

1. 1a : the quality that distinguishes a vital and functional being from a dead body
   b : a principle or force that is considered to underlie the distinctive quality of animate beings
   c : an organismic state characterized by capacity for metabolism (see metabolism 1), growth, reaction to stimuli, and reproduction

And so we note that 1a & 1c state you're a fucking idiot. Flowers are alive and do thus have lives. To have a life and to be alive are synonymous if you don't refer to the concept in some vapid airhead valley girl sense.

Like I said no real concensus on the matter exists.

Logic dictates that if something can be killed it has to be alive. It is not a matter of "consensus". Go eat shit, I heard flies have reached a consensus that it's great and there are really many flies.

Is a zygote alive? yes ofcourse, it´s organic material. Is it a human life? That´s where the waters get muddy, at least in the scientific community.

The scientific community gets wrapped up in semantics about "what consitutes a human" life, but like my claim stated, you will never find one scientist claiming that a fetus isn't human by DNA. That's because a fetus is a human by DNA and no scientist on this world is stupid enough to dispute that. That's why they try to invent all sorts of bullshit criteria to "what constitutes a human" that have absolutely nothing to do with science and are specifically invented precisely because the fact that it's legal to murder one's children is hard to face. Science isn't about word games. Neither is truth.

I state it again: there is no scientist in the world who claims a human fetus isn't human by virtue of DNA and alive in the sense that it can be killed. You didn't find one and never will. That is because the fetus is, undeniably, both a human and alive.

See? I can put my argument into a falsifiable claim and provide actual proof of it. You can't do either or point any faults in mine.

 

[Thurisaz]

one thing that ive never understood though, if a fetus is a living thing with rights, then why should it matter how it was conceived (rape/incest)?

You're right that it shouldn't, and in such cases it isn't the child who needs killing.

 

[Darkballs]

Wrong. It is alive, has its own DNA and that DNA happens to be of the homo sapiens sapiens genus, ergo the fetus is, scientifically, undeniably a new human life from the moment of conception forth.

If i sneeze, that residue has more cells and a larger splat of dna than an early stage embryonic cell. By your definition, my snot containing homo sapien dna, is a new human life. Bollocks.

 

[Higus]

I am pro choice, but barely.

My problem with this argument is that as technology improves, viability will be earlier and earlier. Kind of arbitrary in a way. Today viability is 6 months (or whatever it is). In 10 yeats it will be 3 months.

About 99% of abortions happen in the first 18 weeks of the pregnancy. Viability isn't a possibility until at least after week 21. 50% viability isn't until week 24. Is this a real argument?

 

[Thurisaz]

If i sneeze, that residue has more cells and a larger splat of dna than an early stage embryonic cell. By your definition, my snot containing homo sapien dna, is a new human life. Bollocks.

The definition is not mine and your snot has your DNA. It does not have its own nor is it alive, ergo it doesn't fulfill either criteria.

Try again, failure.

 

[Fawlty]

I think that was Ayn rands stance. Although I believe she elegantly referred to a fetus as a no-right having, parasitic, blood sucking, illegal, trespassing leech, or something like that.

Oh shit, that one takes me back ages. An ex of mine was a devoted Ayn Rand fan, but staunch pro-lifer, and we had a big argument about that. If I remember right, I was trying to use that to talk her out of her Rand worship.

 

[JonnyRingo84]

You're right that it shouldn't, and in such cases it isn't the child who needs killing.

sure does suck for that mother.

 

[m52nickerson]

I state it again: there is no scientist in the world who claims a human fetus isn't human by virtue of DNA and alive in the sense that it can be killed. You didn't find one and never will. That is because the fetus is, undeniably, both a human and alive.

See? I can put my argument into a falsifiable claim and provide actual proof of it. You can't do either or point any faults in mine.

I had a growth on my ass once. It was alive, living cells, and it had Human DNA...yet it was not a human being. No I know this is not a very good comparison. The point is just being alive and possessing human DNA does not make something a human being.

 

[n...not crazy]

It's just like pooping. The baby is biological waste until birth. But it's as if the mother is constipated and needs an assist in pooping out the baby. Typically not in one big turd but sort of chunky and runny.

Babies are part of the mother's body, just like fecal matter.