Aaron Hernandez CTE

[faustian]

He had an enormous financial incentive to continue playing. The NFL had an enormous financial incentive to keep him playing.
But i still don't get how his responsibility to himself is removed.
If I play pro football, I expect to have trouble walking in my fifties and trouble with my cognition as well.

You don't expect your employer to conspire with doctors (who you reasonably expect to protect you) to put you at risk of permanent debilitating brain damage

The issue is not getting a concussion in a game, that can be reasonably expected to happen by any player, the issue is then after that concussion putting the incapacitated player -- who can no longer make informed decisions for himself -- back on the field to suffer even more severe brain trauma

 

[OverCoronavirus Pressure]

You don't expect your employer to conspire with doctors (who you reasonably expect to protect you) to put you at risk of permanent debilitating brain damage

The issue is not getting a concussion in a game, that can be reasonably expected to happen by any player, the issue is then after that concussion putting the incapacitated player -- who can no longer make informed decisions for himself -- back on the field to suffer even more severe brain trauma

I feel like personal responsibility has to come into this somewhere. He wasn't a helpless, uninformed puppet. Anyone at all with a computer connection can discover for themselves in less than a minute that being a professional football player is bad for your health.
I'm sure that will be explored in any potential trial: at what point is a player responsible for his CHOICE to continue playing in spite of getting rocked on the regular?

 

[xcvbn]

Agreed









***Long ass novel incoming so I'll highlight the main points***

No offense to anyone but the argument that "well he chose to play football" is a lazy one that probably stems from the fact that people (justifiably) loathe Hitmandez because he's a murderer

But moving beyond that and being objective here...

Hitmandez's final season was 2012:


https://www.si.com/nfl/nfl-concussion-protocol-policy-history

The point here is, these concussion protocols weren't in place when Hitmandez was playing. As an aside, lol at this new policy. We all saw that Canthers/Broncans game where Can Newton was absolutely rocked to the dome multiple times, yet never once removed from the game to be evaluated.

Before the current "concussion assessment guidelines", when Hitmandez was playing, common league-wide practice for the NFL was to simply have players take a few plays off to "walk off" obvious concussions. Then the ko'd player would be sent back out there to be exposed to further head trauma. To put this into perspective, imagine an MMA fight: fighter A gets ko'd by fighter B, ref temporarily stops the fight, fighter C comes in to fight fighter B for a round, then fighter C comes out and fighter A is sent back out there to continue vs fighter B. Fighter A takes further damage until the time clock expires, or perhaps fighter C briefly subs in for him again at some point after another obvious ko. Fighter A has suffered at least one concussion and been exposed to further brain trauma and who knows how many concussions. Once you suffer a concussion, any further brain trauma at that point -- especially within such a short proximity of time -- exponentially increases the degree and severity of brain damage incurred. Now imagine this happens in multiple events over an 18 week period for multiple years.

And we know for a fact that this analogous scenario has happened in the NFL, and the reasonable deduction to draw is that it very regularly happened. Numerous players have recounted how they've had their "bell rung" then got back in the game and performed heroics despite literally having zero memory of the rest of the game. Anyone who's ever been concussed can tell you that even though your brain has been broken and shutting down after suffering severe trauma, an emergency reserve part of your brain can then kick into auto-pilot mode based purely on reaction and survival instinct, and that, coupled with your body's muscle memory and training, take over. When I suffered my first concussion on a basketball court at age 13 I finished the game I was playing then literally either rode or walked my bike all the way back home just over a mile away having crossed two busy city streets while doing so. Then when I got home my mom asked me if I was ok and I asked her who she was. Then at the hospital a few hours later I couldn't answer the questions of my age or what year it was. This is why we as NFL viewers never thought twice when we saw a guy get knocked out of a game then come back to catch or throw a TD. Now think of all the players who got back into the game and didn't do anything heroic, but rather just went through the motions unnoticed. I don't think I'm being hyperbolic when I say it happened literally every game.

This is not what young men sign up for when "well he chose to play football"

Every Sunday football players choose to take the risk of being concussed, but once concussed, you no longer have the mental capacity to choose whether to re-enter the game and incur further, even more traumatic and potentially life-altering, brain damage. And I think one would be dishonest to suggest that anyone chose risking this kind of scenario. All NFL teams have doctors, and I think the reasonable expectation of any player is that the doctors will look out for their best interests if and when they get injured in a game. But that wasn't what happened in the NFL. Once you suffer a concussion, any further brain trauma at that point -- especially within such a short proximity of time -- exponentially increases the degree and severity of brain damage incurred. I repeat this point because it can't be stressed enough. And now our growing understanding of CTE is revealing that this brain damage is quite often permanent and debilitating.

And no football player ever signed up for CTE. We didn't even have our current rudimentary understanding and evidence of CTE and its implications until just very recently ffs

Hitmandez's brain, at age 27, showed the same level of permanent damage you'd expect to see in a retired player at age 60. And he only played 3 NFL seasons. Think about that. A reasonable person can only conclude that Hitmandez was involved in at least one of these previously described scenarios of repeated brain trauma suffered within the same game. Because NFL policy was to have doctors look the other way and send him back out there. And that is criminal let alone negligent.

Whether his CTE caused him to kill anyone is irrelevant. The NFL's policy of covering up concussions and sending concussed players out to have their battered brains finished off and permanently damaged is the issue here. This isn't about Hitmandez individually as much as it's about holding the NFL accountable. It's also irrelevant whether some of his CTE was incurred prior to entering the NFL. If it's indeed so that it did, then there's a case against either UF or the NCAA or both. But all that matters for the purposes of this case is whether the described scenario ever happened in the NFL, because if it did, it no doubt either caused or further contributed to his CTE (permanent brain damage).

I hope the Hitmandez estate succeeds in its suit and wins a landmark level of damages

Let 'em know, Faust. Your commitment to "Hitmandez" is inspirational by the way.

 

[faustian]

I feel like personal responsibility has to come into this somewhere. He wasn't a helpless, uninformed puppet. Anyone at all with a computer connection can discover for themselves in less than a minute that being a professional football player is bad for your health.
I'm sure that will be explored in any potential trial: at what point is a player responsible for his CHOICE to continue playing in spite of getting rocked on the regular?

You can't seem to get past the fact that I agree a football player is aware of and can be expected to be concussed. It's what happens after that which is the problem

Let's try an applicable hypothetical:

You can expect to get concussed in MMA. But if the UFC told its doctors and refs to not stop fights when a fighter is ko'd, to just let the fight continue as the downed ko'd fighter is GNP'd until the clock runs out, and the fighter later dies at the hospital, would you not see a problem with that?

 

[Dizzy]

Agreed









***Long ass novel incoming so I'll highlight the main points***

No offense to anyone but the argument that "well he chose to play football" is a lazy one that probably stems from the fact that people (justifiably) loathe Hitmandez because he's a murderer

But moving beyond that and being objective here...

Hitmandez's final season was 2012:


https://www.si.com/nfl/nfl-concussion-protocol-policy-history

The point here is, these concussion protocols weren't in place when Hitmandez was playing. As an aside, lol at this new policy. We all saw that Canthers/Broncans game where Can Newton was absolutely rocked to the dome multiple times, yet never once removed from the game to be evaluated.

Before the current "concussion assessment guidelines", when Hitmandez was playing, common league-wide practice for the NFL was to simply have players take a few plays off to "walk off" obvious concussions. Then the ko'd player would be sent back out there to be exposed to further head trauma. To put this into perspective, imagine an MMA fight: fighter A gets ko'd by fighter B, ref temporarily stops the fight, fighter C comes in to fight fighter B for a round, then fighter C comes out and fighter A is sent back out there to continue vs fighter B. Fighter A takes further damage until the time clock expires, or perhaps fighter C briefly subs in for him again at some point after another obvious ko. Fighter A has suffered at least one concussion and been exposed to further brain trauma and who knows how many concussions. Once you suffer a concussion, any further brain trauma at that point -- especially within such a short proximity of time -- exponentially increases the degree and severity of brain damage incurred. Now imagine this happens in multiple events over an 18 week period for multiple years.

And we know for a fact that this analogous scenario has happened in the NFL, and the reasonable deduction to draw is that it very regularly happened. Numerous players have recounted how they've had their "bell rung" then got back in the game and performed heroics despite literally having zero memory of the rest of the game. Anyone who's ever been concussed can tell you that even though your brain has been broken and shutting down after suffering severe trauma, an emergency reserve part of your brain can then kick into auto-pilot mode based purely on reaction and survival instinct, and that, coupled with your body's muscle memory and training, take over. When I suffered my first concussion on a basketball court at age 13 I finished the game I was playing then literally either rode or walked my bike all the way back home just over a mile away having crossed two busy city streets while doing so. Then when I got home my mom asked me if I was ok and I asked her who she was. Then at the hospital a few hours later I couldn't answer the questions of my age or what year it was. This is why we as NFL viewers never thought twice when we saw a guy get knocked out of a game then come back to catch or throw a TD. Now think of all the players who got back into the game and didn't do anything heroic, but rather just went through the motions unnoticed. I don't think I'm being hyperbolic when I say it happened literally every game.

This is not what young men sign up for when "well he chose to play football"

Every Sunday football players choose to take the risk of being concussed, but once concussed, you no longer have the mental capacity to choose whether to re-enter the game and incur further, even more traumatic and potentially life-altering, brain damage. And I think one would be dishonest to suggest that anyone chose risking this kind of scenario. All NFL teams have doctors, and I think the reasonable expectation of any player is that the doctors will look out for their best interests if and when they get injured in a game. But that wasn't what happened in the NFL. Once you suffer a concussion, any further brain trauma at that point -- especially within such a short proximity of time -- exponentially increases the degree and severity of brain damage incurred. I repeat this point because it can't be stressed enough. And now our growing understanding of CTE is revealing that this brain damage is quite often permanent and debilitating.

And no football player ever signed up for CTE. We didn't even have our current rudimentary understanding and evidence of CTE and its implications until just very recently ffs

Hitmandez's brain, at age 27, showed the same level of permanent damage you'd expect to see in a retired player at age 60. And he only played 3 NFL seasons. Think about that. A reasonable person can only conclude that Hitmandez was involved in at least one of these previously described scenarios of repeated brain trauma suffered within the same game. Because NFL policy was to have doctors look the other way and send him back out there. And that is criminal let alone negligent.

Whether his CTE caused him to kill anyone is irrelevant. The NFL's policy of covering up concussions and sending concussed players out to have their battered brains finished off and permanently damaged is the issue here. This isn't about Hitmandez individually as much as it's about holding the NFL accountable. It's also irrelevant whether some of his CTE was incurred prior to entering the NFL. If it's indeed so that it did, then there's a case against either UF or the NCAA or both. But all that matters for the purposes of this case is whether the described scenario ever happened in the NFL, because if it did, it no doubt either caused or further contributed to his CTE (permanent brain damage).

I hope the Hitmandez estate succeeds in its suit and wins a landmark level of damages

A reasonable person would conclude that there is no way to prove when he sustained the bulk of his brain damage and singling out the richest parties from a professional and amateur career reeks of a last minute cash grab for the estate of a broke, dead, murderer.

Fuck him, he was playing gangster long before his NFL career ended. Is his pop warner team to blame? High school? University of Florida?

I'm sure the family of Odin Lloyd is relieved that the true murderer has been found.

 

[xcvbn]

I feel like personal responsibility has to come into this somewhere. He wasn't a helpless, uninformed puppet. Anyone at all with a computer connection can discover for themselves in less than a minute that being a professional football player is bad for your health.
I'm sure that will be explored in any potential trial: at what point is a player responsible for his CHOICE to continue playing in spite of getting rocked on the regular?

I think this is a good argument against parents who choose to have their young kids play football. But even still, all of this concussion and head damage research is very new, not thanks to the NFL and the doctors they colluded with literally for DECADES.

To answer your question, I think about now is a good time where adult football players bear responsibility. Not 20 years ago, not 10 years ago, not even 3. Right now because we see the horrific results of the NFL suppressing this information.

Medical doctors aren't salesman. They're not store clerks. They're very near to being public officials and are often held in the highest standards. They play arguably the most crucial role in modern society- and for good reason. We trust that they're the experts on our health and our most importantly our kids'. Think of how often you about peewee football losing enrollment(this is what it's all about), now consider how much sooner it would have happened if parents were more informed by these doctors years ago.

Football is an amazing sport that turns boys into men, builds lasting relationships, and gives kids hope in hopeless situations. But for me as a parent I have to think long and hard about how I will feel knowing my kid WILL get concussed, and how it could very well impact his health immediately and into the future. I don't know that I would think so hard about making this choice had I not known just how bad the ramifications are. Ramifications that parents knew nothing about for decades, all thanks to the NFL machine and corrupt doctors.

I went full on tangent but I've been following this story since those two homosexual(NTTAWWT) brothers from ESPN broke it open 2 or 3(or 4?) years ago. The NFL executives who had any knowledge and especially the doctors who took their money should all be publicly lynched as far as I'm concerned. Sure, they didnt hide the cure for cancer from the world, but what they did was egregious and sickening.

 

[faustian]

A reasonable person would conclude that there is no way to prove when he sustained the bulk of his brain damage and singling out the richest parties from a professional and amateur career reeks of a last minute cash grab for the estate of a broke, dead, murderer.

Fuck him, he was playing gangster long before his NFL career ended. Is his pop warner team to blame? High school? University of Florida?

I'm sure the family of Odin Lloyd is relieved that the true murderer has been found.

You can review footage of every game of his career and if you find any instances of him getting knocked out of a game exhibiting concussion symptoms and then returning, well now you've got a case. The "bulk of his brain damage" is irrelevant, any single instance of the NFL putting him back out there after a concussion only for him to take more damage is negligent. And then I'm sure it won't be too hard to find an expert witness on CTE to testify that said instance contributed to his CTE. You don't need to have 100% caused someone's injury to be liable for your role in contributing to it

And again, it's not about "NFL caused him to commit crimes", it's about "NFL either caused or contributed to his permanent brain damage"

You're not allowed to cause brain damage to someone, even if that someone is a criminal

 

[OverCoronavirus Pressure]

I think this is a good argument against parents who choose to have their young kids play football. But even still, all of this concussion and head damage research is very new, not thanks to the NFL and the doctors they colluded with literally for DECADES.

To answer your question, I think about now is a good time where adult football players bear responsibility. Not 20 years ago, not 10 years ago, not even 3. Right now because we see the horrific results of the NFL suppressing this information.

Medical doctors aren't salesman. They're not store clerks. They're very near to being public officials and are often held in the highest standards. They play arguably the most crucial role in modern society- and for good reason. We trust that they're the experts on our health and our most importantly our kids'. Think of how often you about peewee football losing enrollment(this is what it's all about), now consider how much sooner it would have happened if parents were more informed by these doctors years ago.

Football is an amazing sport that turns boys into men, builds lasting relationships, and gives kids hope in hopeless situations. But for me as a parent I have to think long and hard about how I will feel knowing my kid WILL get concussed, and how it could very well impact his health immediately and into the future. I don't know that I would think so hard about making this choice had I not known just how bad the ramifications are. Ramifications that parents knew nothing about for decades, all thanks to the NFL machine and corrupt doctors.

I went full on tangent but I've been following this story since those two homosexual(NTTAWWT) brothers from ESPN broke it open 2 or 3(or 4?) years ago. The NFL executives who had any knowledge and especially the doctors who took their money should all be publicly lynched as far as I'm concerned. Sure, they didnt hide the cure for cancer from the world, but what they did was egregious and sickening.

Well, some of it is new. But the idea that multiple concussions can lead to brain damage is certainly not. One example, Ali was mumbling for decades. I heard about football "making you stupid" DECADES ago.

 

[Prefect]

Agreed









***Long ass novel incoming so I'll highlight the main points***

No offense to anyone but the argument that "well he chose to play football" is a lazy one that probably stems from the fact that people (justifiably) loathe Hitmandez because he's a murderer

But moving beyond that and being objective here...

Hitmandez's final season was 2012:


https://www.si.com/nfl/nfl-concussion-protocol-policy-history

The point here is, these concussion protocols weren't in place when Hitmandez was playing. As an aside, lol at this new policy. We all saw that Canthers/Broncans game where Can Newton was absolutely rocked to the dome multiple times, yet never once removed from the game to be evaluated.

Before the current "concussion assessment guidelines", when Hitmandez was playing, common league-wide practice for the NFL was to simply have players take a few plays off to "walk off" obvious concussions. Then the ko'd player would be sent back out there to be exposed to further head trauma. To put this into perspective, imagine an MMA fight: fighter A gets ko'd by fighter B, ref temporarily stops the fight, fighter C comes in to fight fighter B for a round, then fighter C comes out and fighter A is sent back out there to continue vs fighter B. Fighter A takes further damage until the time clock expires, or perhaps fighter C briefly subs in for him again at some point after another obvious ko. Fighter A has suffered at least one concussion and been exposed to further brain trauma and who knows how many concussions. Once you suffer a concussion, any further brain trauma at that point -- especially within such a short proximity of time -- exponentially increases the degree and severity of brain damage incurred. Now imagine this happens in multiple events over an 18 week period for multiple years.

And we know for a fact that this analogous scenario has happened in the NFL, and the reasonable deduction to draw is that it very regularly happened. Numerous players have recounted how they've had their "bell rung" then got back in the game and performed heroics despite literally having zero memory of the rest of the game. Anyone who's ever been concussed can tell you that even though your brain has been broken and shutting down after suffering severe trauma, an emergency reserve part of your brain can then kick into auto-pilot mode based purely on reaction and survival instinct, and that, coupled with your body's muscle memory and training, take over. When I suffered my first concussion on a basketball court at age 13 I finished the game I was playing then literally either rode or walked my bike all the way back home just over a mile away having crossed two busy city streets while doing so. Then when I got home my mom asked me if I was ok and I asked her who she was. Then at the hospital a few hours later I couldn't answer the questions of my age or what year it was. This is why we as NFL viewers never thought twice when we saw a guy get knocked out of a game then come back to catch or throw a TD. Now think of all the players who got back into the game and didn't do anything heroic, but rather just went through the motions unnoticed. I don't think I'm being hyperbolic when I say it happened literally every game.

This is not what young men sign up for when "well he chose to play football"

Every Sunday football players choose to take the risk of being concussed, but once concussed, you no longer have the mental capacity to choose whether to re-enter the game and incur further, even more traumatic and potentially life-altering, brain damage. And I think one would be dishonest to suggest that anyone chose risking this kind of scenario. All NFL teams have doctors, and I think the reasonable expectation of any player is that the doctors will look out for their best interests if and when they get injured in a game. But that wasn't what happened in the NFL. Once you suffer a concussion, any further brain trauma at that point -- especially within such a short proximity of time -- exponentially increases the degree and severity of brain damage incurred. I repeat this point because it can't be stressed enough. And now our growing understanding of CTE is revealing that this brain damage is quite often permanent and debilitating.

And no football player ever signed up for CTE. We didn't even have our current rudimentary understanding and evidence of CTE and its implications until just very recently ffs

Hitmandez's brain, at age 27, showed the same level of permanent damage you'd expect to see in a retired player at age 60. And he only played 3 NFL seasons. Think about that. A reasonable person can only conclude that Hitmandez was involved in at least one of these previously described scenarios of repeated brain trauma suffered within the same game. Because NFL policy was to have doctors look the other way and send him back out there. And that is criminal let alone negligent.

Whether his CTE caused him to kill anyone is irrelevant. The NFL's policy of covering up concussions and sending concussed players out to have their battered brains finished off and permanently damaged is the issue here. This isn't about Hitmandez individually as much as it's about holding the NFL accountable. It's also irrelevant whether some of his CTE was incurred prior to entering the NFL. If it's indeed so that it did, then there's a case against either UF or the NCAA or both. But all that matters for the purposes of this case is whether the described scenario ever happened in the NFL, because if it did, it no doubt either caused or further contributed to his CTE (permanent brain damage).

I hope the Hitmandez estate succeeds in its suit and wins a landmark level of damages

I agree with everything minus the current rudimentary understanding and evidence of CTE. CTE had been studied and thought confined to just the sport of boxing. Dr.Omalu discovering CTE in Mike Webster's brain was only significant in that it showed that there was evidence that NFL players likely were suffering from CTE, as well. As silly as it sounds, no one had thought before to check the brains of NFL players for CTE. It took someone like Mike Webster ,who by all accounts was acting very strange and not himself, to cross paths with someone like Dr.Omalu, who was motivated enough to put in the time and energy to figure out why. There probably have been a bunch of NFL players prior that had died with similar symptoms and it was just explained away with he was always a little crazy or he was suffering from something like alzheimers or just got old. It is really hard to find something like CTE if no one bothers to look for it.

 

[xcvbn]

Well, some of it is new. But the idea that multiple concussions can lead to brain damage is certainly not. One example, Ali was mumbling for decades. I heard about football "making you stupid" DECADES ago.

Yep. And who had the "top" head doctors in their pockets telling every parent not to worry for DECADES?

 

[OverCoronavirus Pressure]

Yep. And who had the "top" head doctors in their pockets telling every parent not to worry for DECADES?

I feel like if you listen to people who have a vested interest in lying to you, you can consult other sources of information. A player can seek and obtain a second or third opinion.

Don't march yourself off a cliff for money and then blame gravity when you land hard.

 

[Drenalin]

I've heard he acted like a thug back in college. Maybe he already had severe CTE by then. Either way, CTE isn't an excuse to murder people, no matter how you twist it

 

[xcvbn]

I feel like if you listen to people who have a vested interest in lying to you, you can consult other sources of information. A player can seek and obtain a second or third opinion.

Don't march yourself off a cliff for money and then blame gravity when you land hard.

I see where you're coming from. At the end of the day, your health is your health. Doctors deserve all the recognition they get but they're not perfect, it's crucial for everyone to be conscious of their health and especially of their kids health.

However, the way I feel about what the NFL did along with those doctors I wouldn't bat an eye if a court took team ownership away from every owner, divided them among various ex-players families then locked the owners away in prison for good. Meanwhile the doctors on the NFL payroll would be the first human test subjects for any new head related treatment.

 

[faustian]

I agree with everything minus the current rudimentary understanding and evidence of CTE. CTE had been studied and thought confined to just the sport of boxing. Dr.Omalu discovering CTE in Mike Webster's brain was only significant in that it showed that there was evidence that NFL players likely were suffering from CTE, as well. As silly as it sounds, no one had thought before to check the brains of NFL players for CTE. It took someone like Mike Webster ,who by all accounts was acting very strange and not himself, to cross paths with someone like Dr.Omalu, who was motivated enough to put in the time and energy to figure out why. There probably have been a bunch of NFL players prior that had died with similar symptoms and it was just explained away with he was always a little crazy or he was suffering from something like alzheimers or just got old.

There were fewer than 50 cases of it confirmed since it was first observed in "punch drunk boxers" in the 1920s before Omalu discovered it in the autopsy of a football player. Omalu's findings were published in 2005. It wasn't seriously studied until 2008 whereupon the actual destructive effects it has on the brain (and which specific parts of the brain) are beginning to be discovered

 

[OverCoronavirus Pressure]

I see where you're coming from. At the end of the day, your health is your health. Doctors deserve all the recognition they get but they're not perfect, it's crucial for everyone to be conscious of their health and especially of their kids health.

However, the way I feel about what the NFL did along with those doctors I wouldn't bat an eye if a court took team ownership away from every owner, divided them among various ex-players families then locked the owners away in prison for good. Meanwhile the doctors on the NFL payroll would be the first human test subjects for any new head related treatment.

We definitely agree that there's shared responsibility on the players and teams/ the league.

 

[Makani]

Agreed









***Long ass novel incoming so I'll highlight the main points***

No offense to anyone but the argument that "well he chose to play football" is a lazy one that probably stems from the fact that people (justifiably) loathe Hitmandez because he's a murderer

But moving beyond that and being objective here...

Hitmandez's final season was 2012:


https://www.si.com/nfl/nfl-concussion-protocol-policy-history

The point here is, these concussion protocols weren't in place when Hitmandez was playing. As an aside, lol at this new policy. We all saw that Canthers/Broncans game where Can Newton was absolutely rocked to the dome multiple times, yet never once removed from the game to be evaluated.

Before the current "concussion assessment guidelines", when Hitmandez was playing, common league-wide practice for the NFL was to simply have players take a few plays off to "walk off" obvious concussions. Then the ko'd player would be sent back out there to be exposed to further head trauma. To put this into perspective, imagine an MMA fight: fighter A gets ko'd by fighter B, ref temporarily stops the fight, fighter C comes in to fight fighter B for a round, then fighter C comes out and fighter A is sent back out there to continue vs fighter B. Fighter A takes further damage until the time clock expires, or perhaps fighter C briefly subs in for him again at some point after another obvious ko. Fighter A has suffered at least one concussion and been exposed to further brain trauma and who knows how many concussions. Once you suffer a concussion, any further brain trauma at that point -- especially within such a short proximity of time -- exponentially increases the degree and severity of brain damage incurred. Now imagine this happens in multiple events over an 18 week period for multiple years.

And we know for a fact that this analogous scenario has happened in the NFL, and the reasonable deduction to draw is that it very regularly happened. Numerous players have recounted how they've had their "bell rung" then got back in the game and performed heroics despite literally having zero memory of the rest of the game. Anyone who's ever been concussed can tell you that even though your brain has been broken and shutting down after suffering severe trauma, an emergency reserve part of your brain can then kick into auto-pilot mode based purely on reaction and survival instinct, and that, coupled with your body's muscle memory and training, take over. When I suffered my first concussion on a basketball court at age 13 I finished the game I was playing then literally either rode or walked my bike all the way back home just over a mile away having crossed two busy city streets while doing so. Then when I got home my mom asked me if I was ok and I asked her who she was. Then at the hospital a few hours later I couldn't answer the questions of my age or what year it was. This is why we as NFL viewers never thought twice when we saw a guy get knocked out of a game then come back to catch or throw a TD. Now think of all the players who got back into the game and didn't do anything heroic, but rather just went through the motions unnoticed. I don't think I'm being hyperbolic when I say it happened literally every game.

This is not what young men sign up for when "well he chose to play football"

Every Sunday football players choose to take the risk of being concussed, but once concussed, you no longer have the mental capacity to choose whether to re-enter the game and incur further, even more traumatic and potentially life-altering, brain damage. And I think one would be dishonest to suggest that anyone chose risking this kind of scenario. All NFL teams have doctors, and I think the reasonable expectation of any player is that the doctors will look out for their best interests if and when they get injured in a game. But that wasn't what happened in the NFL. Once you suffer a concussion, any further brain trauma at that point -- especially within such a short proximity of time -- exponentially increases the degree and severity of brain damage incurred. I repeat this point because it can't be stressed enough. And now our growing understanding of CTE is revealing that this brain damage is quite often permanent and debilitating.

And no football player ever signed up for CTE. We didn't even have our current rudimentary understanding and evidence of CTE and its implications until just very recently ffs

Hitmandez's brain, at age 27, showed the same level of permanent damage you'd expect to see in a retired player at age 60. And he only played 3 NFL seasons. Think about that. A reasonable person can only conclude that Hitmandez was involved in at least one of these previously described scenarios of repeated brain trauma suffered within the same game. Because NFL policy was to have doctors look the other way and send him back out there. And that is criminal let alone negligent.

Whether his CTE caused him to kill anyone is irrelevant. The NFL's policy of covering up concussions and sending concussed players out to have their battered brains finished off and permanently damaged is the issue here. This isn't about Hitmandez individually as much as it's about holding the NFL accountable. It's also irrelevant whether some of his CTE was incurred prior to entering the NFL. If it's indeed so that it did, then there's a case against either UF or the NCAA or both. But all that matters for the purposes of this case is whether the described scenario ever happened in the NFL, because if it did, it no doubt either caused or further contributed to his CTE (permanent brain damage).

I hope the Hitmandez estate succeeds in its suit and wins a landmark level of damages

Damn Faust, that's some truth. You'd think someone just called out the '06 Heat or something.

 

[faustian]

I feel like if you listen to people who have a vested interest in lying to you, you can consult other sources of information. A player can seek and obtain a second or third opinion.

Don't march yourself off a cliff for money and then blame gravity when you land hard.

You can't get a 2nd and 3rd opinion in the middle of a football game after you've already been concussed

 

[Dizzy]

You can review footage of every game of his career and if you find any instances of him getting knocked out of a game exhibiting concussion symptoms and then returning, well now you've got a case. The "bulk of his brain damage" is irrelevant, any single instance of the NFL putting him back out there after a concussion is negligent. And then I'm sure it won't be too hard to find an expert witness on CTE to testify that said instance contributed to his CTE. You don't need to have 100% caused someone's injury to be liable for your role in contributing to it

And again, it's not about "NFL caused him to commit crimes", it's about "NFL either caused or contributed to his permanent brain damage"

You're not allowed to cause brain damage to someone, even if that someone is a criminal

Sure you are, look at boxing. It's a perfect example of participants being allowed to continue even while concussed.

So long as you can stand up and keep your balance before 10 seconds you're good to go.

Are the athletic commissions to blame for their assigned physicians allowing a fighter to continue fighting when he's likely suffered several concussions? Those are the agreed upon rules by all participants.

Anyway, if you're singling out two parties in your lawsuit as being liable for someone's death, then you'd better have some strong evidence that yes, the bulk of his brain damage was in fact due to them corroborating to keep his deteriorating brain a secret.

I'd feel much more comfortable with the lawsuit if they wanted to include the NCAA. They aren't though. They're going after the smallest part of his football career that just happens to be the most lucrative.

If, by some small chance they win anything, I'd hope there's a way for Odin Lloyd's family to take every cent in a civil suit.

 

[OverCoronavirus Pressure]

You can't get a 2nd and 3rd opinion in the middle of a football game after you've already been concussed

I'll grant ya that

 

[xcvbn]

You can't get a 2nd and 3rd opinion in the middle of a football game after you've already been concussed

An argument could be made that after or between games is a viable time to seek outside opinion.

Although I personally disagree. For instance, players are almost always discouraged from seeking medical help outside of team doctors(I think we all know why). It's a really sick rabbit hole.