A special for Sinister on the old stance

Discussion in 'Standup Technique' started by Lucas Coradini, Dec 8, 2018.

  1. Lucas Coradini

    Lucas Coradini Blue Belt Professional Fighter

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    So the guy in the video says one of the reasons for the hands being low was because boxers of that era weren't as concerned with full force punching to the the head. They were afraid to injure their hands and that was also why they were able to have long careers and fight for that much rounds...

    @Sinister
     
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  2. MadSquabbles500

    MadSquabbles500 Steel Belt

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    I still be worried about shots to the tip of nose, and to the eye socket. Those still hurt bad.
     
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  3. Lucas Coradini

    Lucas Coradini Blue Belt Professional Fighter

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    I'm not exactly sold on this being true haha

    by THIS I mean the not throwing full force thing
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2018
  4. Sinister

    Sinister Doctor of Doom Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    Bare knuckle fighters were WAY more conscious of how hard they threw, that is true. I watched this a few days ago and I remembered that he had some partial facts but other things not so much. I'll give it a look again because I don't remember stuff that stood out to me as incorrect.

    EDIT: for one thing, the chin being up wasn't a requisite of the stance. These are photos. When in range to be hit the chin was always tucked. But the head was BACK, with the back straight. The head was to be kept furthest from the opponent.

    EDIT 2: the lead hand out was for distance control. It still is. And it's taken from boxing's roots in fencing.
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2018
  5. shincheckin

    shincheckin Brown Belt

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    i didnt know boxing has its roots in fencing? I kinda always just figured boxing came about from people figuring how to fight with their fists, meaning it was its own thing, not an off-shoot of something else. where comparing to MT, it is definitely an off-shoot. Krabi Krabong -> Muay Boran -> Muay Thai
     
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  6. shincheckin

    shincheckin Brown Belt

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    Me either.

    I mean maybe if you are bareknuckle boxing for a living, you may be more hesitant to drop bombs to the head, but every bareknuckle fight i have been in, i was not worried about injuring my hands, as much as I was worried about hitting the guy with my hands lol. Yeah I injured them, but you dont notice or feel it until after the fight (unless you completely break or shatter something)....so with that being said, I would kind of relate it shin damage in MT. Sure we are hesistant to throw a huge leg kick that might get checked, but injuring my shins is not what I am worried about during the fight, and yes after the fight we always have lumped up swollen shins/legs.
     
  7. thehighking

    thehighking Brown Belt

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    I think some people are way more prone to hand injuries than others. I'm sure technique plays a big part but some people just seem to hage hands made for punching and rarely injure them by punching. I'd like to think Jack Dempsey had these kind of hands because he sure didn't give a shit what way his fist landed on his opponents (not bare knuckle but those gloves were shitty! )
     
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  8. Sinister

    Sinister Doctor of Doom Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    No no no. Why would anyone fight with their fists when they can grip weapons? There were early forms of boxing that pre-date what WE know as boxing, but they didn't look like what we know as boxing, either. The earliest forms of boxing more resembled windmilling hammer-fists. What we know as boxing was taught by fencing instructors who realized that 1) dueling to the Death isn't always cool and 2) their stuff worked just as well if you removed the sword and balled a fist. There's some old posts around here where I've shown the similarities of stances and techniques.
     
  9. MadSquabbles500

    MadSquabbles500 Steel Belt

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    I wonder if this Bareknuckle guard like the notre dame fighting irish mascot uses can be applied to gloved boxing
     
  10. Lucas Coradini

    Lucas Coradini Blue Belt Professional Fighter

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    Yes, I can see that for sure. It may be that I'm self taught in english, but it seemed very strange to me to listen to him point that as a reason for hand positioning jaja I mean... not being concerned with hits to the head... in a boxing fight?!

    I remember for past threads and conversations that keeping the head the furthest from the opponent is one of the fundamentals of the stance as you teach it and of punching itself

    the whole pointing a knife at the opponent analogy, both the closer threat of attack and the first line of defense
     
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  11. Sinister

    Sinister Doctor of Doom Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    Well, it's not that they weren't concerned with hitting the head, it's just that it wasn't very easy to land punches. When people speak of old rules boxing it's often romanticized. The fact is the fights were not all that exciting by our standards. Rounds were not 3 minutes, they began and ended whenever a guy needed a break, or went down, things like that. When we hear of 100 round fights we picture guys throwing 80 punches a round for that long, yeah...no, that's physically impossible. The fights were very very very slow.

    Gloves changed EVERYTHING. And they were first insisted upon by John L. Sullivan. If I had to wager a guess as to why it's because even a thin layer of buckskin as hand protection went a long way and he was able to hit with more of his physical strength (his trainer was a Professional Wrestler, who was often insistent upon Sullivan's conditioning be equal to that of wrestlers). Hence his ability to knock men out in a more devastating fashion.
     
  12. Lucas Coradini

    Lucas Coradini Blue Belt Professional Fighter

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    gotchu

    but maybe where I wrote "not being concerned with hits to the head" it should have been "not being concerned with taking hits in the head", which of course they were, and that is why their stance kept the head back, no? If that is correct then their hand positioning has nothing to do with "not being concerned with taking hits in the head"...

    so, hands out, head back turns the head a harder target to land. Not that they didn't care because the other guy wouldn't punch hard, super afraid to break his hands

    but maybe the poor guy didn't event meant it like that and I'm making a huge mess, lol

    hahahha jesus christ, I'm writing this post for the last 10 minutes. Sorry, but I'm taking the TOEFL (english proficiency test) next month and as the anxious mofo that I am, my english seems to become sloppier as the hours go by
     
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  13. shincheckin

    shincheckin Brown Belt

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    I watched the video and thought to myself man, how cool would it be to have no rounds and no time limit and just fight until someone wins...........then what you said above crossed my mind lol
     
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  14. shincheckin

    shincheckin Brown Belt

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    im going to bet most on here are not going to understand that jaja is haha <Lmaoo>

    555 ;)
     
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  15. Lucas Coradini

    Lucas Coradini Blue Belt Professional Fighter

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    the 555 thing blew my mind when I finally find out

    but I'm sure there's no weirder virtual laughs than what we do here in Brasil... From kkkkkk to rsrsrsrrs to heuheueheuehe to aoksapokspokaops shit doesn't make any sense, don't even try to understand
     
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  16. MadSquabbles500

    MadSquabbles500 Steel Belt

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    Bareknuckle fights dont have to be slow and boring. Look at hockey fights. Imagine hockey fights on solid ground and in shoes. I thought Bareknuckles allowed to clinching like head locks, and even some takedowns like "back heels".

    When I think Bareknuckle fighting, I think

     
  17. FightGuyOpenMind

    FightGuyOpenMind Purple Belt

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    The guard was for distance control.

    There was no extra mass from the gloves to act as a defensive tool.
     
  18. FightGuyOpenMind

    FightGuyOpenMind Purple Belt

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    The internet is filled with exciting and fast paced bare knuckle fights.
     
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  19. Sinister

    Sinister Doctor of Doom Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    No, there's a reason this was movie. Movies aren't reality.

    No one did that for hours on end.
     
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  20. Sinister

    Sinister Doctor of Doom Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    Not fought by old-timey boxers who had to entertain crowds for money, with no time limits, and modified grappling allowed.
     
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