A-Level Athlete Anders.

Discussion in 'UFC Discussion' started by ThEiCeMaN6791, Feb 4, 2018.

  1. djason1988

    djason1988 Brown Belt

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    This.

    "Athleticism" is a part of MMA, but just one part of many. Toughness, creativity, fight IQ, and the multitude of skills required are all just as important.
     
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  2. djason1988

    djason1988 Brown Belt

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    Anders started his ammy career in 2012 and had 22 fights to his credit in that. That's way longer than most guys spend as an amateur. And machida has been on a downslide for years and lost 3 straight brutally. And current GOAT contenders not being athletic? Jones' brothers are both NFL linemen and Cormier was an Olympic wrestler. It doesn't get much more "athletic" than that
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2018
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  3. cherryzero

    cherryzero Green Belt

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    Dude... Machida is older, he’s clearly lost a step, and him calling out Bisping is tantamount to admitting his career is almost over.

    I doubt Anders would have made it though the first with prime Machida.

    Point being there is a weird tendency around here to call out older fighters as never being that good in the first place. Aging is a real thing. It diminishes your physical skills.
     
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  4. Franc Mittelo

    Franc Mittelo Banned Banned

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    I am just going with what was posted on Wikipedia. That is why I mentioned "according to Wikipedia." I am very deliberate with the words I use (most times).

    However, using the argument of "he had many amateur fights" is moving the goal post. I remember a thread were a poster questioned why the UFC was promoting Cody Garbrandt as "10-0 and undefeated" when there was footage of Cody get KO'd stiff. LOL

    Many hardcore MMA fans made the argument that "Cody's amateur record doesn't count. So, that stiff arm KO never really happened." LOL

    The thread was probably Wastelanded by a triggered and cringed Beta Nerd Moderator. So, I will give Anders the same benefit of the doubt all those hardcore MMA fans afforded to Cody Garbrandt. LOL

    Being consistent is important.
     
  5. ThEiCeMaN6791

    ThEiCeMaN6791 Purple Belt

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    He’s 39. I’m his prime he would have destroyed him.
     
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  6. Headkicktoleg

    Headkicktoleg Gold Belt

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    Dude couldn't even get to the level of Schaub or Mitrione in football. Let that sink in.
     
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  7. ThEiCeMaN6791

    ThEiCeMaN6791 Purple Belt

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    Probably because of skill, not athleticism. That’s probably why those two didn’t make it either. Football is about much more than just being athletic.
     
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  8. ThEiCeMaN6791

    ThEiCeMaN6791 Purple Belt

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    I though with six months of training any A level athlete would be UFC champion?
     
  9. josh345

    josh345 Purple Belt

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    I agree that he's past his prime. No doubt. But I'm still pumped he got a win. He had some good moments last night.
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2018
  10. rjmbrd

    rjmbrd Gold Belt

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    No, because we have an enormous amount of data that shows this isn't the case for many positions.

    Anders was a linebacker.

    You can use something as simple as the 40 yard dash to predict your likelihood to be drafted. The speediest guys have a 100% placement rate. Now consider a multi multi billion dollar industry completely predicated on objective success in the game, with decades of development and enormous scouting budgets, has still determined that the fastest guys literally all get drafted.

    I suppose you could cast aspersions on everyone in the scouting and coaching system as dummies, but you are just a jabroni on the internet.

    All elite athletes have a higher probability of making it into the NFL, although not all are skilled enough or cut out to be there.

    Anders appears to be a skilled football player who reached his potential in college football. Something in the course of 1.5% of college players get drafted.

    He was not among those elite. Now he's in MMA, where the starting pay is 15k/15k.

    That is why we don't get elite athletes for guys the size of 185/205/265.

    Both of Jon Jones brothers are multi-year starting players in the NFL. They are just guys though, not stars of the league.

    When one guy of that athletic caliber trips and falls into MMA, we literally call him the greatest of all time. Other professional sports are quite entirely populated with Jon Jones'.

    @Squintz
     
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  11. ThEiCeMaN6791

    ThEiCeMaN6791 Purple Belt

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    I never saw him play but it’s entirely possible that he was a shitty tackler, or couldn’t read blocks well, or had some other skill deficiencies.

    People use Jones as an example of a decent athlete dominating MMA completely ignoring his wrestling background. Same with Brock.

    Speaking of Brock, he put up great combine numbers, but he didn’t have the skill to make it in the NFL.
     
  12. Wormwood

    Wormwood Purple Belt

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    And Brunson could have won in Brazil...
     
  13. grimballer

    grimballer Silver Belt

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    Did it ever cross your mind that if he was truly an elite athlete he would have been approach by many teams before draft, be invited to the nfl combine, post crazy numbers n been drafted on athleticism alone?
     
  14. fightfan70

    fightfan70 Green Belt

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    this is a great example in the difference between mma and wmma. according to experience machida should have beat him down like the bullet did in her fight
     
  15. NationWideNinja

    NationWideNinja Brown Belt

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    You Americans are obsessed with your own definition of athleticism, which is football/basketball players. Theres more to sports than just being very big and explosive.

    For example, Melvin Guillard is one of the most explosive LWs ever, didnt matter when he lacked in so many other departments such as fighting IQ, timing, distance control, etc.
     
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  16. grimballer

    grimballer Silver Belt

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    He’s explosive, but not expositive enough for nfl/Nba
     
  17. grimballer

    grimballer Silver Belt

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    Yup

    Usually those that are good college players, but can’t cut it in the pros tend to understand the game well, but simply don’t have athleticism for the next level

    He also played lb in college, but is fighting at 185?

    That’s corner/safety size.

    He was simply undersized/not athletic nuff for nfl
     
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  18. emax

    emax Black Belt

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    Anders was a starter in a major Div 1 football team, the difference between that and guys who make it to the NFL is often a difference in skills specific for football, and every position has its own unique skills it requires, and relatively small differences in the specific types of athleticism the NFL needs. Often there isn't a massive athleticism gap between NCAA Div 1 starters in college football and the ones who make the NFL cut. So this was a former Div 1 starter who wasn't able to make it past a near 40 year old Machida whose best fighting years are way behind him. That suggests that the difference between Anders and a guy who could make the NFL cut, which would be a difference in skills and athleticism unique to football, would not by itself be sufficient to make an incoming MMA fighter go on a complete UFC tear.

    That said, without any doubt there is a set of NFL guys who could enter the UFC and go on as big a tear or an even bigger one than Jon Jones. It would not necessarily be the current biggest stars in the NFL. It could be a set of starters or even backups who have had extensive amateur wrestling and or boxing or kickboxing experience since their middle school years and who also have Jon Jone's natural fight IQ. With Jon Jones, his intelligence when fighting, and his willingness to see himself as a perpetual student of fighting who always had more to learn, was as important as his unique athletic gifts.
     
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  19. Slatersan

    Slatersan Green Belt

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    Ufc fighters are c-d level athletes. Look what happened when b level athlete jon jones came in. He mopped the floor with every one and he barely trained ufc. Yoel Romero could be considered an a level athlete in his youth and is still dominate as a senior citizen.
     
  20. rjmbrd

    rjmbrd Gold Belt

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    Brock underlines the point how low average athleticism is in heavyweight MMA.

    He tried to make the NFL, with the Vikings, but wasn't worth the effort to develop into a player. Had he started younger, he likely had NFL athletic qualities.

    He entered MMA with zero experience and became a world champion a few fights later. Lets really stop and unpack that for a moment - a guy with even LESS experience in MMA (zero) then he had in football (youth level), in the NFL he wasn't even worth keeping on a practice squad.

    In MMA he casually walked into the sport and won the heavyweight championship.

    Regarding Jones, we know from his siblings, he has elite genetics. It isn't random chance you have 3 brothers who are all elite athletes. We rarely get guys of that caliber in MMA, with such an easy case study to read, and Jones is one of the greatest of all time.

    He entered MMA and simply ran roughshod over everyone. In other professional sports, Jon Jones is the standard, not the greatest ever.
     

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