A fake news feeding frenzy: Jill Stein also now under investigation for Russian collusion.

jgarner said:
They aren't asking for all the Jill Stein's emails. They are asking for ones that were directed at Trump Jr, who admitted to illegally colluding with the Russian government which violates campaign finance laws.
Click to expand...

He didn't admit that at all. He admitted to taking a meeting.

What you typed is just wishful thinking.
 
HereticBD said:
He didn't admit that at all. He admitted to taking a meeting.

What you typed is just wishful thinking.
Click to expand...

As usual, you just don't know what the fuck you're talking about. Accepting a meeting from a foreign national with intent to receive goods or services such as "Opposition Research" is a violation of campaign finance law. When discussing funds and services, you don't need actual money to change hands. You only need intent to make it happen and the services only need to have value. Opposition Research is a service that costs money to campaigns. It's intelligent assessment of the law, not wishful thinking.

https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/FR-2002-11-19/pdf/02-28886.pdf#

§ 110.20 Prohibition on contributions, donations, expenditures, independent expenditures, and disbursements by foreign nationals (52 U.S.C. 30121, 36U.S.C. 510).
(a)Definitions. For purposes of this section, the following definitions apply:

(1)Disbursement has the same meaning as in 11 CFR 300.2(d).

(2)Donation has the same meaning as in 11 CFR 300.2(e).

(3)Foreign national means -

(i) A foreign principal, as defined in 22 U.S.C. 611(b); or

(ii) An individual who is not a citizen of the United States and who is not lawfully admitted for permanent residence, as defined in 8 U.S.C. 1101(a)(20); however,

(iii)Foreign national shall not include any individual who is a citizen of the United States, or who is a national of the United States as defined in 8 U.S.C. 1101(a)(22).

(4)Knowingly means that a person must:

(i) Have actual knowledge that the source of the funds solicited, accepted or received is a foreign national;

(ii) Be aware of facts that would lead a reasonable person to conclude that there is a substantial probability that the source of the funds solicited, accepted or received is a foreign national; or

(iii) Be aware of facts that would lead a reasonable person to inquire whether the source of the funds solicited, accepted or received is a foreign national, but the person failed to conduct a reasonable inquiry.

(5) For purposes of paragraph (a)(4) of this section, pertinent facts include, but are not limited to:

(i) The contributor or donor uses a foreign passport or passport number for identification purposes;

(ii) The contributor or donor provides a foreign address;

(iii) The contributor or donor makes a contribution or donation by means of a check or other written instrument drawn on a foreign bank or by a wire transfer from a foreign bank; or

(iv) The contributor or donor resides abroad.

(6)Solicit has the same meaning as in 11 CFR 300.2(m).

(7)Safe Harbor. For purposes of paragraph (a)(4)(iii) of this section, a person shall be deemed to have conducted a reasonable inquiry if he or she seeks and obtains copies of current and valid U.S. passport papers for U.S. citizens who are contributors or donors described in paragraphs (a)(5)(i) through (iv) of this section. No person may rely on this safe harbor if he or she has actual knowledge that the source of the funds solicited, accepted, or received is a foreign national.

(b)Contributions and donations by foreign nationals in connection with elections. A foreign national shall not, directly or indirectly, make a contribution or a donation of money or other thing of value, or expressly or impliedly promise to make a contribution or a donation, in connection with any Federal, State, or local election.

(c)Contributions and donations by foreign nationals to political committees and organizations of political parties. A foreign national shall not, directly or indirectly, make a contribution or donation to:

(1) A political committee of a political party, including a national party committee, a national congressional campaign committee, or a State, district, or local party committee, including a non-Federal account of a State, district, or local party committee, or

(2) An organization of a political party whether or not the organization is a political committee under 11 CFR 100.5.

(d)Contributions and donations by foreign nationals for office buildings. A foreign national shall not, directly or indirectly, make a contribution or donation to a committee of a political party for the purchase or construction of an office building. See11 CFR 300.10 and 300.35.

(e)Disbursements by foreign nationals for electioneering communications. A foreign national shall not, directly or indirectly, make any disbursement for an electioneering communication as defined in 11 CFR 100.29.

(f)Expenditures, independent expenditures, or disbursements by foreign nationals in connection with elections. A foreign national shall not, directly or indirectly, make any expenditure, independent expenditure, or disbursement in connection with any Federal, State, or local election.

(g)Solicitation, acceptance, or receipt of contributions and donations from foreign nationals. No person shall knowingly solicit, accept, or receive from a foreign national any contribution or donation prohibited by paragraphs (b) through (d) of this section.

(h)Providing substantial assistance.

(1) No person shall knowingly provide substantial assistance in the solicitation, making, acceptance, or receipt of a contribution or donation prohibited by paragraphs (b) through (d), and (g) of this section.

(2) No person shall knowingly provide substantial assistance in the making of an expenditure, independent expenditure, or disbursement prohibited by paragraphs (e) and (f) of this section.

(i)Participation by foreign nationals in decisions involving election-related activities. A foreign national shall not direct, dictate, control, or directly or indirectly participate in the decision-making process of any person, such as a corporation, labor organization, political committee, or political organization with regard to such person's Federal or non-Federal election-related activities, such as decisions concerning the making of contributions, donations, expenditures, or disbursements in connection with elections for any Federal, State, or local office or decisions concerning the administration of a political committee.

(j)Donations by foreign nationals to inaugural committees. A foreign national shall not, directly or indirectly, make a donation to an inaugural committee, as defined in 11 CFR 104.21(a)(1). No person shall knowingly accept from a foreign national any donation to an inaugural committee.

[67 FR 69950, Nov. 19, 2002, as amended at 69 FR 59780, Oct. 6, 2004]

http://thehill.com/homenews/adminis...-trump-jr-meeting-broke-campaign-finance-laws

http://www.businessinsider.com/donald-trump-jr-emails-illegal-campaign-2017-7

https://www.vox.com/world/2017/7/10/15950590/donald-trump-jr-new-york-times-illegal
 
Last edited:
jgarner said:
As usual, you just don't know what the fuck you're talking about. Accepting a meeting from a foreign national with intent to receive goods or services such as "Opposition Research" is a violation of campaign finance law. When discussing funds and services, you don't need actual money to change hands. You only need intent to make it happen and the services only need to have value. Opposition Research is a service that costs money to campaigns. It's intelligent assessment of the law, not wishful thinking.

https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/FR-2002-11-19/pdf/02-28886.pdf#

§ 110.20 Prohibition on contributions, donations, expenditures, independent expenditures, and disbursements by foreign nationals (52 U.S.C. 30121, 36U.S.C. 510).
(a)Definitions. For purposes of this section, the following definitions apply:

(1)Disbursement has the same meaning as in 11 CFR 300.2(d).

(2)Donation has the same meaning as in 11 CFR 300.2(e).

(3)Foreign national means -

(i) A foreign principal, as defined in 22 U.S.C. 611(b); or

(ii) An individual who is not a citizen of the United States and who is not lawfully admitted for permanent residence, as defined in 8 U.S.C. 1101(a)(20); however,

(iii)Foreign national shall not include any individual who is a citizen of the United States, or who is a national of the United States as defined in 8 U.S.C. 1101(a)(22).

(4)Knowingly means that a person must:

(i) Have actual knowledge that the source of the funds solicited, accepted or received is a foreign national;

(ii) Be aware of facts that would lead a reasonable person to conclude that there is a substantial probability that the source of the funds solicited, accepted or received is a foreign national; or

(iii) Be aware of facts that would lead a reasonable person to inquire whether the source of the funds solicited, accepted or received is a foreign national, but the person failed to conduct a reasonable inquiry.

(5) For purposes of paragraph (a)(4) of this section, pertinent facts include, but are not limited to:

(i) The contributor or donor uses a foreign passport or passport number for identification purposes;

(ii) The contributor or donor provides a foreign address;

(iii) The contributor or donor makes a contribution or donation by means of a check or other written instrument drawn on a foreign bank or by a wire transfer from a foreign bank; or

(iv) The contributor or donor resides abroad.

(6)Solicit has the same meaning as in 11 CFR 300.2(m).

(7)Safe Harbor. For purposes of paragraph (a)(4)(iii) of this section, a person shall be deemed to have conducted a reasonable inquiry if he or she seeks and obtains copies of current and valid U.S. passport papers for U.S. citizens who are contributors or donors described in paragraphs (a)(5)(i) through (iv) of this section. No person may rely on this safe harbor if he or she has actual knowledge that the source of the funds solicited, accepted, or received is a foreign national.

(b)Contributions and donations by foreign nationals in connection with elections. A foreign national shall not, directly or indirectly, make a contribution or a donation of money or other thing of value, or expressly or impliedly promise to make a contribution or a donation, in connection with any Federal, State, or local election.

(c)Contributions and donations by foreign nationals to political committees and organizations of political parties. A foreign national shall not, directly or indirectly, make a contribution or donation to:

(1) A political committee of a political party, including a national party committee, a national congressional campaign committee, or a State, district, or local party committee, including a non-Federal account of a State, district, or local party committee, or

(2) An organization of a political party whether or not the organization is a political committee under 11 CFR 100.5.

(d)Contributions and donations by foreign nationals for office buildings. A foreign national shall not, directly or indirectly, make a contribution or donation to a committee of a political party for the purchase or construction of an office building. See11 CFR 300.10 and 300.35.

(e)Disbursements by foreign nationals for electioneering communications. A foreign national shall not, directly or indirectly, make any disbursement for an electioneering communication as defined in 11 CFR 100.29.

(f)Expenditures, independent expenditures, or disbursements by foreign nationals in connection with elections. A foreign national shall not, directly or indirectly, make any expenditure, independent expenditure, or disbursement in connection with any Federal, State, or local election.

(g)Solicitation, acceptance, or receipt of contributions and donations from foreign nationals. No person shall knowingly solicit, accept, or receive from a foreign national any contribution or donation prohibited by paragraphs (b) through (d) of this section.

(h)Providing substantial assistance.

(1) No person shall knowingly provide substantial assistance in the solicitation, making, acceptance, or receipt of a contribution or donation prohibited by paragraphs (b) through (d), and (g) of this section.

(2) No person shall knowingly provide substantial assistance in the making of an expenditure, independent expenditure, or disbursement prohibited by paragraphs (e) and (f) of this section.

(i)Participation by foreign nationals in decisions involving election-related activities. A foreign national shall not direct, dictate, control, or directly or indirectly participate in the decision-making process of any person, such as a corporation, labor organization, political committee, or political organization with regard to such person's Federal or non-Federal election-related activities, such as decisions concerning the making of contributions, donations, expenditures, or disbursements in connection with elections for any Federal, State, or local office or decisions concerning the administration of a political committee.

(j)Donations by foreign nationals to inaugural committees. A foreign national shall not, directly or indirectly, make a donation to an inaugural committee, as defined in 11 CFR 104.21(a)(1). No person shall knowingly accept from a foreign national any donation to an inaugural committee.

[67 FR 69950, Nov. 19, 2002, as amended at 69 FR 59780, Oct. 6, 2004]

http://thehill.com/homenews/adminis...-trump-jr-meeting-broke-campaign-finance-laws

http://www.businessinsider.com/donald-trump-jr-emails-illegal-campaign-2017-7

https://www.vox.com/world/2017/7/10/15950590/donald-trump-jr-new-york-times-illegal
Click to expand...


1. That law has never been applied in a situation like this.

2. This is a great example of shifting the goalposts. The original claim was that Russian and the Trump team illegally colluded to hack the DNC and John Podesta. That's talking about violations of Logan Act and potentially espionage. Serious shit.
Now you are claiming that Trump Jr. may have violated a campaign finance law by receiving dirt from a foreign national. That's a fucking nothingburger law that gets broken all the time. The campaign would get like a $30k fine or something for that if they were found guilty.
 
klnOmega said:
1. That law has never been applied in a situation like this.

2. This is a great example of shifting the goalposts. The original claim was that Russian and the Trump team illegally colluded to hack the DNC and John Podesta. That's talking about violations of Logan Act and potentially espionage. Serious shit.
Now you are claiming that Trump Jr. may have violated a campaign finance law by receiving dirt from a foreign national. That's a fucking nothingburger law that gets broken all the time. The campaign would get like a $30k fine or something for that if they were found guilty.
Click to expand...

1. That doesn't make it legal or ethical. He fucking broke the law in an effort to collude with the Russian government. It's what we've been saying from the start. And do you really want to try and make the claim that people aren't prosecuted under Campaign Finance Laws.

2. Nobody is shifting the goal posts. We've been asking for a full investigation from the beginning. Trump and Friends have called it bullshit and lied the entire time. If they had been forthcoming about their interactions, I might believe what they say. Instead, they lied. You don't get to say what has or hasn't happened when the investigation is still ongoing and your "team" is lying at every chance possible. So you can kindly shut the fuck up and let them finish the investigation. If nothing comes of it at the end, that's fine. If they simply slap Trump Jr with a fine for violating campaign finance law, then that's fine.

I love the audacity you have to try and make breaking the law in an unethical manner to collude with a hostile nation OK. Grow a set of fucking balls and have respect for your country.
 
It would make perfect sense if the goal was to ensure that Hillary doesn't get elected. This Stein broad could certainly be more of a useful idiot as opposed to a nefarious actor if it really is the case. She was shitting on Hillary for the whole campaign it seemed and siphoned liberal votes from her.
 
sangreporsangre said:
It would make perfect sense if the goal was to ensure that Hillary doesn't get elected.
Click to expand...

It would make perfect sense to enlist the help of the Green Party candidate?

Also, are we just going to pretend that Stein wasn't talking mad shit about Trump as well during the campaign? Not to mention crowd funding a recount bid, that the Liberals endorsed.
 
HereticBD said:
It would make perfect sense to enlist the help of the Green Party candidate?

Also, are we just going to pretend that Stein wasn't talking mad shit about Trump as well during the campaign? Not to mention crowd funding a recount bid, that the Liberals endorsed.
Click to expand...

It would make perfect sense to try and pump up another left-wing candidate to try and siphon off some votes from the Democrats, yes. Or at least it seems that way to me.
 
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