A fake news feeding frenzy: Jill Stein also now under investigation for Russian collusion.

[Ruprecht]

The fact that from the moment trump first expressed an offhand interest in american/russian cooperation on the campaign trail, his critics began scrabbling to find dots that could connect Trump to putin, to the extent that even seemingly mundane connections elicit responses of "WAAAH! COLLUSION! IMPEACHMENT! TANGERINE TURD! UNDERMINING DEMOCRACY! IT'S THE END OF THE WORLD! PANIC! PANIC!"

That's not really what happened though. The people he surrounded himself with were well known for their pro-Russian stance before they joined Trump's team, and had been criticised for it.
Davis-Manafort were being criticised for their pro-Russian agenda back when they worked for McCain, despite McCain's ostensible hostility.
It was the combination of surrounding himself with these people and his (admittedly flip flopping) rhetoric about Russia, NATO, nuclear proliferation etc that started the criticism, followed up by his exploitation of the DNC hacks and Russian propaganda (see RT) in a manner which mimicked the Russian "Firehose of Falsehood" propaganda technique.
Even the foreign policy adviser he considered for deputy Secretary of State admits the investigation is necessary, because there's too many questions raised which need answering.

 

[Cake4Breakfast]

The fact that from the moment trump first expressed an offhand interest in american/russian cooperation on the campaign trail, his critics began scrabbling to find dots that could connect Trump to putin, to the extent that even seemingly mundane connections elicit responses of "WAAAH! COLLUSION! IMPEACHMENT! TANGERINE TURD! UNDERMINING DEMOCRACY! IT'S THE END OF THE WORLD! PANIC! PANIC!"

No indivdual accusation sounds insane, but the context created by the overall climate of anti-trump hysteria, including silly bullshit like the "grab her by the pussy" video and the incredible case of the vanishing rape victims, makes legitimate criticisms hard to identify amidst the morass of obvious nonsense.

I didn't like Obama, but it was the same with him; when you have half the world railing on hysterically about the undercover kenyan agent of allah infiltrating the US government, and analysing photos of him eating bacon and eggs in an effort to confirm his adherence to taqiya and therefore his connections to the islamic world... Well, it just starts to sound insane and hard to take seriously.


In short, the part that sounds like lunacy is the lunatics.

I mean you can write some of it off to politics, but since the election, you have his foreign policy mentor and his controversial (with everyone from Christie to Obama telling him the guy is bad news) pick for national security advisor lying to the FBI and to the VP about his discussions with Russia about sanctions (along with how the White House treated Sally Yates in her attempts to bring Flynn's behavior to their immediate attention), you have Trump firing the FBI director due to how he was handling the Russia investigation (in Trump's words), you have the former head of the FBI stating, under oath, that Trump tried to get him to pledge his personal loyalty, and that Trump cleared the room to try to get him to drop the FBI's case on Flynn. You have Comey going out on a limb and leaking his memos to try to get a special counsel to make sure the investigation stayed alive. You have all of the Trump campaign elites involved in a meeting that they knew was with people connected with the Russian government, and you had Trump Jr. lying about anything and everything he could about the meeting. You have Kushner having undisclosed meetings (and him being on his third iteration of his disclosure of meetings, as more and more have been leaked) with a bank connected to the Russian government and him possibly trying to set up a back channel communication with the Russian government. You have a president who will not support the findings of his intelligence agencies, even when the heads of those agencies who are stating the findings are his appointees. And, you have the senate voting 98-2 to limit his ability to reduce sanctions against Russia because his ideas are egregiously in Russia's favor and do not reflect what a president would do if he supported the findings of US intelligence agencies. And you have Trump never releasing his tax returns (like every president has done in the past) and have reports of him and his legal team starting to talk about firing Mueller, and talk about pardoning his people, now that the probe is going to start looking into his personal finances. And then you have Jeff Sessions' inconsistencies regarding Russia, which are weird.

So, this investigation may not reveal what Trump haters hope it does, but to want to investigate the issue, especially given all of the hiding and lying that Trump's closest people have done regarding everything having to with Russia, is not a tin foil hat thing.

 

[AviatorShades]

I understood what you wrote. For starters, my point was that Trump still has not stated, unequivocally, that he believes that Russia did what every intelligence agency head has stated they did. You are making a straw man argument, that serious people are arguing that Trump is "Putin's puppet." The senate (and soon the house) though are going to do their best to prevent him from taking action that suits Russia's agenda.

Russia has attempted to influence most of our presidential elections.
Trump was accused of (and investigated for) direct links to the Russian state.

There is a very binary distinction between the two.

"Well Trump dismisses the idea that it affected the outcome" or "Well Trump questions whether the Russian State itself hacked the DNC" (etc.) are totally different topics.

The target keeps moving. "Putin's puppet"/impeachment has devolved bit my bit into it's sad current state: Micro-analyzing Trump's Russia tweets for the aforementioned semantics.

This requires the creation of a straw-man faction who deny entirely that Russia has interfered with US elections. That faction does not exist. Conservatives were fixated on Yuri Bezmenov and the "useful idiot" phenomenon long before the most liberals learned of Russia's existence and location (2016). While we are sometimes a bit too gung-ho with geopolitics, we are at least literate, and you are not. You are literate in "LGBT" and other shallow pool topics, so this was all very new, exciting and malleable.

Trump's stance during the elections was firm and clearly state: End the Cold War paradigm to adapt to the new mutual threats to the south and invest outside of a rapidly deteriorating western Europe. This is one of the main reasons he won my support. I believe the proxy wars between the US and USSR/ex-USSR have been the most destructive political phenomenon in modern human history. They are the ultimate reason we (and they) keep funding terrorists in the middle east, the reason for most of South America's own puppet-dictator/guerrilla paradigm, the reason western Europe, the greatest civilization in all human history, will be demographically erased within two generations.

This also made him incredibly vulnerable to reverse-McCarthyism. Any attempt to achieve such a feat will be sabotaged by the opposition party. Those petty sanctions were strategically timed. His campaign promises will be deliberately misinterpreted as as "sudden, suspicious pro-Putin shift" by left-allied (nearly all) media. Research Ted Kennedy's deliberate encouragement of Soviet nuclear proliferation in order to prevent Reagan's political ascension. It's the same scenario now.

The meat and potatoes of the 21st century DNC is radical racial politics. For some inexplicable reason, nominated a an elderly white woman with the closest thing to an aristocratic American surname. The DNC cannot mathematically expect to elect white presidential candidates by the end of this decade. The support is not there. This election is being treated by the media as the most passionate and schismatic ever -- but prior to Trump's election, voter apathy was abnormally high. Hillary appealed in no way to the Democrat party's completely radicalized base. Anyone we nominated would have beaten her. I believe Trump had among the lowest chances in the field.

Additionally, Trump wasn't considered a viable candidate until the DNC/Clinton campaign pumped millions of dollars into pro-Trump groups during the Republican primaries (this is one of the most overlooked and important leaks). Their plan was to sideline surefire winners like Cruz/Rubio or Jeb Bush or (thank God we dodged that bullet) by securing the nomination for a candidate too blunt and direct to win the generals. Hillary's own "Trump collusion" was far more concrete and influential than anything Putin is capable of. She has also been more clearly implicated in requesting opposition research from foreign organizations than Trump has (neither of which is distinctly legal/illegal).

Ultimately, what is the target? We have outgrown the "Putin's puppet" narrative. There will be no impeachment (at least not for that).

Get Trump to spit in Putin's face, ramp up "moderate rebel" (ISIS) funding in Syria and throw some sanctins around to "prove his loyalty"?

It will accomplish nothing. More proxy was and demographic chaos and Hillary will still be unelectable to her party's new base.

 

[Fawlty]

I mean you can write some of it off to politics, but since the election, you have his foreign policy mentor and his controversial (with everyone from Christie to Obama telling him the guy is bad news) pick for national security advisor lying to the FBI and to the VP about his discussions with Russia about sanctions (along with how the White House treated Sally Yates in her attempts to bring Flynn's behavior to their immediate attention), you have Trump firing the FBI director due to how he was handling the Russia investigation (in Trump's words), you have the former head of the FBI stating, under oath, that Trump tried to get him to pledge his personal loyalty, and that Trump cleared the room to try to get him to drop the FBI's case on Flynn. You have Comey going out on a limb and leaking his memos to try to get a special counsel to make sure the investigation stayed alive. You have all of the Trump campaign elites involved in a meeting that they knew was with people connected with the Russian government, and you had Trump Jr. lying about anything and everything he could about the meeting. You have Kushner having undisclosed meetings (and him being on his third iteration of his disclosure of meetings, as more and more have been leaked) with a bank connected to the Russian government and him possibly trying to set up a back channel communication with the Russian government. You have a president who will not support the findings of his intelligence agencies, even when the heads of those agencies who are stating the findings are his appointees. And, you have the senate voting 98-2 to limit his ability to reduce sanctions against Russia because his ideas are egregiously in Russia's favor and do not reflect what a president would do if he supported the findings of US intelligence agencies. And you have Trump never releasing his tax returns (like every president has done in the past) and have reports of him and his legal team starting to talk about firing Mueller, and talk about pardoning his people, now that the probe is going to start looking into his personal finances. And then you have Jeff Sessions' inconsistencies regarding Russia, which are weird.

So, this investigation may not reveal what Trump haters hope it does, but to want to investigate the issue, especially given all of the hiding and lying that Trump's closest people have done regarding everything having to with Russia, is not a tin foil hat thing.

Nothingburger -- $18.95

Wagyu beef, melted cheddar, ripe tomatoes, smokey bacon, crispy onion ring, tangy bbq sauce, and a lightly toasted bun. Comes with your choice of seasoned waffle fries, fresh red potato salad, or a sealed indictment. A House favorite!

 

[Hans Gruber]

Not really, whether a crime's been committed is precisely what the investigation is seeking to discover.
It's not illegal to be a "useful idiot", on the other hand...

RuPaul

Even if you believe that Trump Jr is an "useful idiot" it doesn't justify the mass hysteria and hyperventilating of the media nor does it justify a witch hunt that knows no bounds.

 

[OverCoronavirus Pressure]

Cast a wide enough net, you're bound to catch something.

Let's see how many more doors trump opens up and dares investigators to walk through.

 

[ultramanhyata]

If you watched any RT programming during the campaign you would have to be a complete idiot not to see that RT had a strong, first pro-Bernie, then pro-Stein, bias. All the while being decidedly anti-Clinton.

That's why I watched so much of it!

 

[The Prophet]

they think jill stein was part of a plot.

this is a joke.

 

[stellarborg]

her donations picked up considerably, shortly after that meeting.

she started constantly criticizing American abuses of human rights while also downplaying how Russia's human rights abuses

her foreign policy is essentially just a photocopy of what Russia would want America's foreign policy to be:



her Vice President said that Ukraine has always been Russian.

she said the US should stay out of Ukraine.

she claims that Ukrainians are the ones to have shot down a passenger plane as a false flag to make Russia look bad.

she said Trump would be better than clinton despite Trump's environmental record and her being the *Green* Party.

Green Party of Russia warned Americans not to vote for her because of her ties to Putin.

Green Party's debates were televised by Russia Today.

Jill Stein is a Russian agent

 

[Trotsky]

Jill Stein can officially fuck off.

Not because I legitimately think she conspired to elect Trump, but because she is (a) referring to the Russia investigation as a conspiracy when it clearly is not and (b) because she is using the Trump definition of "fake news" as a political tool rather than actual indictment of journalistic quality

 

[WorldofWarcraft]

Good. Keep pissing off the Green party so they'll vote Trump in 2020

 

[hillelslovak87]

If you watched any RT programming during the campaign you would have to be a complete idiot not to see that RT had a strong, first pro-Bernie, then pro-Stein, bias. All the while being decidedly anti-Clinton.

That's why I watched so much of it!

I cant support Russian state news, and a channel in which the majority of their supposedly independent talking heads behaved as if the invasion of Crimea was just nothing to be concerned about.

And anyone who finds Lee Camp funny needs to commit ritual suicide.

 

[Rematch]

Good. Keep pissing off the Green party so they'll vote Trump in 2020

It's called being unable to think past the Russia longshot.

 

[7437]

Oh please. Mueller and Comey are friends. Mueller loaded his massive team full of Clintonites.

With constant non-stop leaks (Even my Comey himself LOL) you believe this "investigation" is real!? Haha!

This "investigation" is nothing more than tax-payer funded opposition research leaked straight to the DNC.

Ah, so " fucking stupid" has arrived. Care to guess what political party Mueller is part of, and has been working for since 1987? Ill give you a hint, since you seem slow. Its Republican. He was literally appointed by Reagan and then served under every Republican president after that.

 

[The Prophet]

" Team Clinton, which created Russia narrative to cover their failures "




EXACTLY !!!!

 

[Thunderflash500]

I like how she used the term fake news. Both sides recognize the truth. #winning

 

[Letssnuggle]

Ah, so " fucking stupid" has arrived. Care to guess what political party Mueller is part of, and has been working for since 1987? Ill give you a hint, since you seem slow. Its Republican. He was literally appointed by Reagan and then served under every Republican president after that.

Reread my post mouth breather.

 

[DoomPatrol]

FAKE NEWS!

On Jun 3, 2016, at 10:36 AM, Rob Goldstone wrote:

Good morning

Emin just called and asked me to contact you with something very interesting.

The Crown prosecutor of Russia met with his father Aras this morning and in their meeting offered to provide the Trump campaign with some official documents and information that would incriminate Hillary and her dealings with Russia and would be very useful to your father.

This is obviously very high level and sensitive information but is part of Russia and its government's support for Mr. Trump - helped along by Aras and Emin.

What do you think is the best way to handle this information and would you be able to speak to Emin about it directly?

I can also send this info to your father via Rhona, but it is ultra sensitive so wanted to send to you first.

Best

Rob Goldstone

On Jun 3, 2016, at 10:53, Donald Trump Jr. wrote:

Thanks Rob I appreciate that. I am on the road at the moment but perhaps I just speak to Emin first. Seems we have some time and if it's what you say I love it especially later in the summer. Could we do a call first thing next week when I am back?

Best,

Don

From: Rob Goldstone

Sent: Monday, June 06, 2016 12:40 PM

To: Donald Trump J

Subject: Re: Russia - Clinton - private and confidential

Hi Don

Let me know when you are free to talk with Emin by phone about this Hillary info - you had mentioned early this week so wanted to try to schedule a time and day Best to you and family Rob Goldstone

On Jun 7, 2016, at 4:20 PM, Rob Goldstone wrote:

Don

Hope all is well

Emin asked that I schedule a meeting with you and The Russian government attorney who is flying over from Moscow for this Thursday.

I believe you are aware of the meeting - and so wondered if 3pm or later on Thursday works for you?

I assume it would be at your office.

Best

Rob Goldstone

Comment posted by Donald Trump Jr. on Twitter on July 11, 2017

To everyone, in order to be totally transparent, I am releasing the entire email chain of my emails with Rob Goldstone about the meeting on June 9, 2016. The first email on June 3, 2016 was from Rob, who was relating a request from Emin, a person I knew from the 2013 Ms. Universe Pageant near Moscow. Emin and his father have a very highly respected company in Moscow. The information they suggested they had about Hillary Clinton I thought was Political Opposition Research. I first wanted to just have a phone call but when that didn't work out, they said the woman would be in New York and asked if I would meet. I decided to take the meeting. The woman, as she has said publicly, was not a government official. And, as we have said, she had no information to provide and wanted to talk about adoption policy and the Magnitsky Act. To put this in context, this occurred before the current Russian fever was in vogue. As Rob Goldstone said just today in the press, the entire meeting was “the most inane nonsense l ever heard. And I was actually agitated by it.”



It's so fake! It's like the investigators keep finding new things and Trump's people keep lying about it, then the media has the audacity to act like it's a scandal or something!!

What fake news where Donald Trump Jr admits to violating Campaign Finance Laws by trying to acquire services from a foreign national in the Russian government.. The same government they claimed to not be colluding with.

 

[klnOmega]

FAKE NEWS!

On Jun 3, 2016, at 10:36 AM, Rob Goldstone wrote:

Good morning

Emin just called and asked me to contact you with something very interesting.

The Crown prosecutor of Russia met with his father Aras this morning and in their meeting offered to provide the Trump campaign with some official documents and information that would incriminate Hillary and her dealings with Russia and would be very useful to your father.

This is obviously very high level and sensitive information but is part of Russia and its government's support for Mr. Trump - helped along by Aras and Emin.

What do you think is the best way to handle this information and would you be able to speak to Emin about it directly?

I can also send this info to your father via Rhona, but it is ultra sensitive so wanted to send to you first.

Best

Rob Goldstone

On Jun 3, 2016, at 10:53, Donald Trump Jr. wrote:

Thanks Rob I appreciate that. I am on the road at the moment but perhaps I just speak to Emin first. Seems we have some time and if it's what you say I love it especially later in the summer. Could we do a call first thing next week when I am back?

Best,

Don

From: Rob Goldstone

Sent: Monday, June 06, 2016 12:40 PM

To: Donald Trump J

Subject: Re: Russia - Clinton - private and confidential

Hi Don

Let me know when you are free to talk with Emin by phone about this Hillary info - you had mentioned early this week so wanted to try to schedule a time and day Best to you and family Rob Goldstone

On Jun 7, 2016, at 4:20 PM, Rob Goldstone wrote:

Don

Hope all is well

Emin asked that I schedule a meeting with you and The Russian government attorney who is flying over from Moscow for this Thursday.

I believe you are aware of the meeting - and so wondered if 3pm or later on Thursday works for you?

I assume it would be at your office.

Best

Rob Goldstone

Comment posted by Donald Trump Jr. on Twitter on July 11, 2017

To everyone, in order to be totally transparent, I am releasing the entire email chain of my emails with Rob Goldstone about the meeting on June 9, 2016. The first email on June 3, 2016 was from Rob, who was relating a request from Emin, a person I knew from the 2013 Ms. Universe Pageant near Moscow. Emin and his father have a very highly respected company in Moscow. The information they suggested they had about Hillary Clinton I thought was Political Opposition Research. I first wanted to just have a phone call but when that didn't work out, they said the woman would be in New York and asked if I would meet. I decided to take the meeting. The woman, as she has said publicly, was not a government official. And, as we have said, she had no information to provide and wanted to talk about adoption policy and the Magnitsky Act. To put this in context, this occurred before the current Russian fever was in vogue. As Rob Goldstone said just today in the press, the entire meeting was “the most inane nonsense l ever heard. And I was actually agitated by it.”



It's so fake! It's like the investigators keep finding new things and Trump's people keep lying about it, then the media has the audacity to act like it's a scandal or something!!

What fake news where Donald Trump Jr admits to violating Campaign Finance Laws by trying to acquire services from a foreign national in the Russian government.. The same government they claimed to not be colluding with.

Ok, but what does that have to do with Jill Stein? Please stay on topic. We already have a thread for Don Jrs emails.

 

[DoomPatrol]

Ok, but what does that have to do with Jill Stein?

It has to do with allowing the investigation to go through it's procedures to find out the truth. Trump and Friends has been claiming "fake-news" since the beginning and look what's turned up since then. If the investigators want something that's relevant to their investigation, it's best to just shut the fuck up and let them look into it before decrying it as "fake-news" when that's clearly been bullshit up to this day.

They aren't asking for all of Jill Stein's emails. They are asking for ones that were directed at Trump Jr, who admitted to illegally colluding with the Russian government which violates campaign finance laws.