_____________ _______ ________________

False again.


Also, on Qur'an 3:28:

"Reference 2
Ibn Abbas also commented on the above verse, as narrated in Sunan al- Bayhaqi and Mustadrak al-Hakim, by saying:

"al-Taqiyya is the uttering of the tongue, while the heart is comfortable with faith."

Note: The meaning is that the tongue is permitted to utter anything in a time of need, as long as the heart is not affected; and one is still comfortable with faith."


What make you of this authoritative Hadith explanation?
Not sure what this is supposed to prove. I never said taqiyya wasn't lying. It is lying, specifically about one's faith when under religious persecution.
 
This thread is getting rough. @In The Name Of is the most Christian guy I refuse to put on ignore, because he writes too well and is a member of the movie club (holla). But his bias is often a frightening testament to the power of ideological thinking and motivated reasoning. Hopefully this thread tightens his game up a little.
He's pretty close to being the 2nd person on my ignore list.
 
What's your take on this (straight from A Shia Encyclopedia on the doctrine of taqiyya in Sunni Islam)?


"Reference 2
Ibn Abbas also commented on the above verse, as narrated in Sunan al- Bayhaqi and Mustadrak al-Hakim, by saying:

"al-Taqiyya is the uttering of the tongue, while the heart is comfortable with faith."

Note: The meaning is that the tongue is permitted to utter anything in a time of need, as long as the heart is not affected; and one is still comfortable with faith."

. . .


what's your take on what @Zankou said? that most Muslims don't even know what taqiya is & don't exercise it? it rings true to me because I've worked with Muslim folks over the course of 2 years on an environment that has no room for deceit (IRC). he too most likely has real world experiences, where you don't.
 
what's your take on what @Zankou said? that most Muslims don't even know what taqiya is & don't exercise it? it rings true to me because I've worked with Muslim folks over the course of 2 years on an environment that has no room for deceit (IRC). he too most likely has real world experiences, where you don't.

A) Don't you think Zankou would be here if he wanted to be here? You've defered to him several times seeking his blessing or something after attacking my person and reputation with lies like I've never been attacked on Sherdog before.

B) I addressed Zankou thoroughly in two posts already. I respect him and his opinions, but I've done my research too and have worked closely with two different Muslims since 2009. I also have had relationships with fellow student Muslims since about 2001. Prior to that I have family experience since the '70s with a brother having spent time in Jordan and parents in Nigeria as missionaries.

C) No I do not trust them, particularly when it comes to anything pertaining to Islam. Absolutely not. Interestingly, the first man I worked with was from Pakistan and his dad was swindled out of a large foreign investment by his uncle. That man I worked with would lie frequently, especially during Ramadan - taking time off for dubious, reused reasons year after year. Many, many issues. He'd hide his western items when his parents would visit, his wife and girls would don hijabs too out of fear of them.

The second man I work with also lies regularly. From Lebanon, he lied to obtain his student visa, he falsified documents to show his parents had a bank account to support him which they didn't. He lies about many things. He also went back to Lebanon to marry his first cousin (which 45% of Muslim marriages are- between first cousins). He said he felt like getting a gun and shooting everyone once, which I reported to HR and management but which he was assessed and deemed fit anyway (yes that is a true story despite what you may think).

The fellow students I went to college were the biggest cheaters in the class. Oh yes they were. One of my Thai project partners wouldn't have anything to do with them.

I could go on and on with straight up truthful anecdote.

__________

And what we saw in this thread was someone - me - standing up for truth about Islam and several Muslim apologists ( you being the principal one) descending with rabid fervor in a similar fashion (though obviously verbal) like what was done to this woman, in defense of Islam's honor (though afterward they were found out to be wrong on the issue):



Also, I've been noticing Muslim apologist's stance changing some as he's admitted to seeing the affects of Saudi influence enforcing stricter and stricter forms of Islam in SE Asia (particularly as it pertains to female coverings). But I'm not deferring to him, nor am I attempting to draw him into a discussion, pidgeon-holing him. It's just what I read from him when talking about the woman who went out for breakfast without a head-covering (and who's now being sought out by law) in Saudi Arabia.
 
Last edited:
like I said. give it time & your inner bigot will surface. I said days or weeks but Goddamn you bust your nut in a few hours.

I gave you reasons why I refer to Zankou's post - again, it rings true to me - wake up. I'm not trying to goad him into this, there's no need for that. you're misdirection tactics do no work on me. you're consistently leaving a trail of inconsistencies.

dude, serious question - do you take medication? anyone can see you have anger management issues & I genuinely believe you have some sort of disorder. let me know so I know not to keep triggering you & back off with pointing out your inadequacies.
 
everyone, please beware of these deceitful beings. they've even plagued our law enforcement.
 
A) Don't you think Zankou would be here if he wanted to be here? You've defered to him several times seeking his blessing or something after attacking my person and reputation with lies like I've never been attacked on Sherdog before.

B) I addressed Zankou thoroughly in two posts already. I respect him and his opinions, but I've done my research too and have worked closely with two different Muslims since 2009. I also have had relationships with fellow student Muslims since about 2001. Prior to that I have family experience since the '70s with a brother having spent time in Jordan and parents in Nigeria as missionaries.

C) No I do not trust them, particularly when it comes to anything pertaining to Islam. Absolutely not. Interestingly, the first man I worked with was from Pakistan and his dad was swindled out of a large foreign investment by his uncle. That man I worked with would lie frequently, especially during Ramadan - taking time off for dubious, reused reasons year after year. Many, many issues. He'd hide his western items when his parents would visit, his wife and girls would don hijabs too out of fear of them.

The second man I work with also lies regularly. From Lebanon, he lied to obtain his student visa, he falsified documents to show husband parents had a bank account to support him which they didn't. He lies about many things. He also went back to Lebanon to marry his first cousin (which 45% of Muslim marriages are- between first cousins). He said he felt like getting a gun and shooting everyone once, which I reported to HR and management but which he was assessed and deemed fit anyway (yes that is a true story despite what you may think).

The fellow students I went to college were the biggest cheaters in the class. Oh yes they were. One of my Thai project partners wouldn't have anything to do with them.

I could go on and on with straight up truthful anecdote.

__________

And what we saw in this thread was someone - me - standing up for truth about Islam and several Muslim apologists ( you being the principal one) descending with rabid fervor in a similar fashion (though obviously verbal) like what was done to this woman, in defense of Islam's honor (though afterward they were found out to be wrong on the issue):



Also, I've been noticing Muslim apologist's stance changing some as he's admitted to seeing the affects of Saudi influence enforcing stricter and stricter forms of Islam in SE Asia (particularly as it pertains to female coverings). But I'm not deferring to him, nor am I attempting to draw him into a discussion, pidgeon-holing him. It's just what I read from him when talking about the woman who went out for breakfast without a head-covering (and who's now being sought out by law) in Saudi Arabia.

The problem is that you're so consistently dishonest that few who aren't already inclined to agree with you are going to believe your anecdotes. Certainly I can't tell which is a lie and which isn't and you've drained my reservoir of trust so I don't really care to find out which is which.

You like to think you're exposing some truth but you're so very deceitful and hysterical when doing so that you just come off as a loon.
 
like I said. give it time & your inner bigot will surface. I said days or weeks but Goddamn you bust your nut in a few hours.

I gave you reasons why I refer to Zankou's post - again, it rings true to me - wake up. I'm not trying to goad him into this, there's no need for that. you're misdirection tactics do no work on me. you're consistently leaving a trail of inconsistencies.

dude, serious question - do you take medication? anyone can see you have anger management issues & I genuinely believe you have some sort of disorder. let me know so I know not to keep triggering you & back off with pointing out your inadequacies.

You have the gall to come into this thread unhinged after lecturing me with this from a few days ago:

http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/born-to-hate-jews.3416871/page-5

you're quite welcome.

yes, it's fine to get emotional, but you let yours get to you literally always. you don't know how to argue effectively (as @Gandhi pointed out) & resort to the ol' "I disagree with you so you're a moron" routine.

I've told you this before: you need to keep your bitterness to yourself & not shit on others, unless of course they shit on you first.

This was your first post to me making a homosexual slur, suggesting I'm gay in a negative light - to a mod nonetheless (and you of all people talking about a workplace code of conduct):

http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/t...-the-arabic-quran-derived-word.3420071/page-4

so what's the kicker in all of this? The TS is most likely homosexual (seriously) & probably came out to a Muslim dude who denied him. I'd bet he may have had a sort of relationship with him too

And then again later in the thread:

http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/t...-the-arabic-quran-derived-word.3420071/page-6

so which is it? a Muslim dude banged you & burned you? or are you a former Muslim because you're gay, but can't stop deceiving others?

And this isn't even touching on all the other personal attacks, misquoting me, slandering me and in a topic you have shallow knowledge of.

My background also includes undergraduate Religious Studies, so I do know what I'm talking about on this topic outside of just anecdote and personal study on the subject. Yes I have lots of education - over 12 years in Religious Studies, Sciences and Engineering. I've worked as an Engineer and in related fields for over twelve years. I didn't just fall out of a tree.
 
Last edited:
The problem is that you're so consistently dishonest that few who aren't already inclined to agree with you are going to believe your anecdotes. Certainly I can't tell which is a lie and which isn't and you've drained my reservoir of trust so I don't really care to find out which is which.

You like to think you're exposing some truth but you're so very deceitful and hysterical when doing so that you just come off as a loon.

Wrong. I haven't been dishonest in here, not even in the thread and quotes 22k tried to slander me with. I believe it was in that thread where he went off on me about a jihad scarf which he had never heard about before, as if it didn't exist. Interesting how I posted the video on page one of this thread, where the Jewish lecturer calls the keffiyeh the girl is wearing a "terrorist handkerchief" or scarf.

Actually, I do know what I'm talking about on these topics.
 
Wrong. I haven't been dishonest in here, not even in the thread and quotes 22k tried to slander me with. I believe it was in that thread where he went off on me about a jihad scarf which he had never heard about before, as if it didn't exist. Interesting how I posted the video on page one of this thread, where the Jewish lecturer calls the keffiyeh the girl is wearing a "terrorist handkerchief" or scarf.

Actually, I do know what I'm talking about on these topics.
Like I said, either you don't know or you do know and are intentionally dishonest. Increasingly I think its the latter and I think this shit show of a thread has evidence of that.
 
everyone, please beware of these deceitful beings. they've even plagued our law enforcement.


Here's a few hate-crimes you should be aware of - 21 Coptic Christians beheaded by Islamic State members in Libya:



Make a youtube search of all the Christians in Iraq and Syria who are being crucified and beheaded (children too). Google Islamic State putting hundreds of Christian children through bread-kneeding machines. Google the slaughter of Christians in Nigeria, in Somalia. Google the persecution of Christians straight across the Middle East.

Christians were about 1.2 million in Iraq before ISIS. Now there are between 250K and 300K.

How about the rape and pillaging of Christians in Pakistan. How about the rise in beheadings, machete attacks on anyone not a Muslim in Bangladesh. On and on and on.

And you don't have a Muslim background, no? Huh. Well you don't know what you are talking about on this subject.

Maybe this imam who spoke in Florida around the time of the nightclub slaughter has something to say you'd agree with (about homosexuals):

 
Like I said, either you don't know or you do know and are intentionally dishonest. Increasingly I think its the latter and I think this shit show of a thread has evidence of that.

Says the guy who never once quoted a Hadith we were discussing in this thread accurately, as it was written. Never once word for word. And you had a good 4 or 5 chances to.

I have been one of the few telling the truth here.

And this thread isn't a "shit show" as you describe it. It's what happens when rabid Muslim apologists sabotage a thread, take every angle at discrediting the TS without a shred of evidence or truth in what they're saying. And a few ignorant posters come in and see the bold character assassinating phrases and think, "whoa, there's something to this!"

Nope, there isn't.
 
Not only that @Kafir-kun, but you can't leave this thread alone and said several times toward the end that you agreed with dishonesty in several instances.
 
Says the guy who never once quoted a Hadith we were discussing in this accurately, as it was written. Never once word for word. And you had a good 4 or 5 chances to.
We've been through this point a f ew times, that you always dodge my questions when we go down this road has been shown clearly by this thread.
I have been one of the few telling the truth here.
Its clear to multiple people what kind of deceitful games you're playing here so you're really not fooling as many people as you think.
And this thread isn't a "shit show" as you describe it. It's what happens when rabid Muslim apologists sabotage a thread, take every angle at discrediting the TS without a shred of evidence or truth in what they're saying. And a few ignorant posters come in and see the bold character assassinating phrases and think, "whoa, there's something to this!"

Nope, there isn't.
It is a shit show though. Its centered around a huge copy pasta OP and some disingenuous conclusions by the TS. Who, for the duration of the thread, dodges simple and relevant questions and continues to push his demonstrably suspect conclusions.
Not only that @Kafir-kun, but you can't leave this thread alone
I'm torn between just putting you on ignore or keeping dog piling you ITT.
and said several times toward the end that you agreed with dishonesty in several instances.
Yes I did, I even used an analogy to demonstrate my point. Of course you avoided dealing with it because you knew an honest answer would undermine your naive moral standard that all lying is bad.
 
Do you think you can just lie and use ad hominem phrases to discredit what I've said and done here?

We've been through this point a f ew times, that you always dodge my questions when we go down this road has been shown clearly by this thread.

No I don't "dodge" your questions, don't mislead what's gone on. The fact is I'm not going to bow down and give you a yes or no answer whenever you demand it. You, actually weren't following through with conversation but were halting it to demand an answer from me. You did this before as you well know when asking me incessantly yes or no about you using taqiyya. That was ALL your invention, idea. I did not bring it up once. But you wouldn't let it go, asked me many times and finally I gave you a ball-park percentage which I initially said would happen.

Its clear to multiple people what kind of deceitful games you're playing here so you're really not fooling as many people as you think.

"It's clear" to Muslims and Muslim-apologists in here who are rabid that a fact-based topic was brought up in the War Room quoting no less, the sixth Imam (of Muhammad's own household),
"al-Imam Ja’far al-Sadiq (as) (The Sixth Imam of Ahlul-Bayt [family of the house of Muhammad]) said:

"al-Taqiyya is my religion, and the religion of my ancestors.”He (as)also said: "He who doesn’t practice al-Taqiyya, doesn’t practice his religion."

"It's clear" to the most pious religion on the planet who's whole ideology is based on their idea of works that will save them - the polar opposite of Christianity which says nothing we do will save us except for belief in Jesus Christ as God's Son come in the flesh, the sacrifice for sin for all who believe, the risen Lord. Muslims and Muslim apologists lose their minds everywhere they are exposed using their own "holy" texts (Hadith and Qur'an). They literally can't have any negative association with their belief or practices because they're all about outward piety, earning their salvation, proving the rest of the world are waste compared to them.

It is a shit show though. Its centered around a huge copy pasta OP and some disingenuous conclusions by the TS. Who, for the duration of the thread, dodges simple and relevant questions and continues to push his demonstrably suspect conclusions.

I doubt you read the first three posts because there were comments inserted throughout. It was an honest presentation of taqiyya - the Arabic, Qur'an-derived word. That was it, that was all. Then 22k came in unglued, having not read and/or understood the first 3 posts. This thread is an excellent one, and I'm quite fine with it exposing the lies.

I'm torn between just putting you on ignore or keeping dog piling you ITT.

Do what you think you should do! I'm not putting you on mine, I never have anyone nor do I plan to. But that's up to you if seeing what I write is too difficult.

Yes I did, I even used an analogy to demonstrate my point. Of course you avoided dealing with it because you knew an honest answer would undermine your naive moral standard that all lying is bad.

I never read you once quoting it word for word. Rather, you pressed a yes or no answer to prove a false narrative.

The point, is that there are many acceptable forms of lying in Islam, and when you combine them all, as I told you before, a cultural understanding of "truthfulness" immerges.

I'll just quote a definition straight from one of the Islamic links in the OP:

https://www.al-islam.org/shiite-enc.../al-taqiyya-dissimulation-part-1#introduction

"The word "al-Taqiyya”literally means: "Concealing or disguising one’s beliefs, convictions, ideas, feelings, opinions, and/or strategies at a time of eminent danger, whether now or later in time, to save oneself from physical and/or mental injury.”A one-word translation would be "Dissimulation."

Can you not see how when this is the combined understanding of terms that it's really saying "anything goes" and really, all you have to be is good at it? In fact, older English versions of the Qur'an used to call Allah "the greatest deceiver" (ironically, The Bible calls Satan "The Deceiver" - not a coincidence), newer versions use the word "planner."
 
Last edited:
@Kafir-kun

I actually think you are quite a decent poster overall. I also think your IQ is quite high. Dontsnitch is up there, but you are too.

I don't purposefully try to offend you, that's the truth.
 
Also, I don't care to have any bad blood between @22k and I. That's why in the last few threads prior, I've tried to patch it up with him. But, really, you see what happened in here. I mean his first several posts were dripping with vitriol and he did cross several etiquette lines, no doubt about it.

Regardless, I forgive him and just like everyone else, it's just a forum and thank God for free speech.
 
Do you think you can just lie and use ad hominem phrases to discredit what I've said and done here?
I haven't, I've just engaged with you on certain points and demonstrated some inaccuracy if not outright dishonesty in your argument.
No I don't "dodge" your questions, don't mislead what's gone on. The fact is I'm not going to bow down and give you a yes or no answer whenever you demand it. You, actually weren't following through with conversation but were halting it to demand an answer from me. You did this before as you well know when asking me incessantly yes or no about you using taqiyya. That was ALL your invention, idea. I did not bring it up once. But you wouldn't let it go, asked me many times and finally I gave you a ball-park percentage which I initially said would happen.
Why do you insist on lying? I asked you questions which you sometimes dodged by asking your own question in response but the difference is I actually answered your questions! Its you who has been committed to actually having a clear conversation while I've pursued it at every turn.
Yes or no, are families relatives?

Answer me this:

Are there three members in Hillary Clinton's family?

No, she has at least two brothers and their wives(her sister-in-laws) in addition to Bill, Chelsea, and her son-in-law.

I answered your question now answer mine; are families relatives?
You can still answer; are families relatives, yes or no?
"It's clear" to Muslims and Muslim-apologists in here who are rabid that a fact-based topic was brought up in the War Room quoting no less, the sixth Imam (of Muhammad's own household),
"al-Imam Ja’far al-Sadiq (as) (The Sixth Imam of Ahlul-Bayt [family of the house of Muhammad]) said:

"al-Taqiyya is my religion, and the religion of my ancestors.”He (as)also said: "He who doesn’t practice al-Taqiyya, doesn’t practice his religion."
Ah yes, Zankou the notorious Muslim apologist mod who is always stifling criticism of Islam.
"It's clear" to the most pious religion on the planet who's whole ideology is based on their idea of works that will save them - the polar opposite of Christianity which says nothing we do will save us except for belief in Jesus Christ as God's Son come in the flesh, the sacrifice for sin for all who believe, the risen Lord. Muslims and Muslim apologists lose their minds everywhere they are exposed using their own "holy" texts (Hadith and Qur'an). They literally can't have any negative association with their belief or practices because they're all about outward piety, earning their salvation, proving the rest of the world are waste compared to them.
Lol, everyone is a secret Muslim and it can't possibly be that your arguments are shit.
I doubt you read the first three posts because there were comments inserted throughout. It was an honest presentation of taqiyya - the Arabic, Qur'an-derived word. That was it, that was all. Then 22k came in unglued, having not read and/or understood the first 3 posts. This thread is an excellent one, and I'm quite fine with it exposing the lies.
But I've demonstrated that it wasn't accurate or really honest and you've just side stepped my arguments.
Do what you think you should do! I'm not putting you on mine, I never have anyone nor do I plan to. But that's up to you if seeing what I write is too difficult.
Its nothing to do with what you write being difficult, its that your posts are so utterly devoid of value and so permeated by dishonesty that its almost not even worth the space on the screen.
I never read you once quoting it word for word. Rather, you pressed a yes or no answer to prove a false narrative.
Its like you're plugging your ears and repreating yourself. Again, I never quoted it on purpose. You already did so I was just engaging with it, which can't be done with you because you're only here to copy and paste from wiki to support a poor and dishonest argument of yours without any intent to defend it.
The point, is that there are many acceptable forms of lying in Islam, and when you combine them all, as I told you before, a cultural understanding of "truthfulness" immerges.
Your point isn't very convincing though.
I'll just quote a definition straight from one of the Islamic links in the OP:

https://www.al-islam.org/shiite-enc.../al-taqiyya-dissimulation-part-1#introduction

"The word "al-Taqiyya”literally means: "Concealing or disguising one’s beliefs, convictions, ideas, feelings, opinions, and/or strategies at a time of eminent danger, whether now or later in time, to save oneself from physical and/or mental injury.”A one-word translation would be "Dissimulation."

Can you not see how when this is the combined understanding of terms that it's really saying "anything goes" and really, all you have to be is good at it? In fact, older English versions of the Qur'an used to call Allah "the greatest deceiver" (ironically, The Bible calls Satan "The Deceiver" - not a coincidence), newer versions use the word "planner."
No I can't, not based off your argument at least. Even there its said that taqiyya is to be used when in eminent danger, I see nothing wrong with that. A Jew lying ahead of the Nazi occupation about his faith to escape persecution is something I'd be totally fine with.
@Kafir-kun

I actually think you are quite a decent poster overall. I also think your IQ is quite high. Dontsnitch is up there, but you are too.

I don't purposefully try to offend you, that's the truth.
I know you're not trying to purposefully offend me but that doesn't change the view I view your arguments.
 
You have the gall to come into this thread unhinged after lecturing me with this from a few days ago:

http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/born-to-hate-jews.3416871/page-5



This was your first post to me making a homosexual slur, suggesting I'm gay in a negative light - to a mod nonetheless (and you of all people talking about a workplace code of conduct):

http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/t...-the-arabic-quran-derived-word.3420071/page-4



And then again later in the thread:

http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/t...-the-arabic-quran-derived-word.3420071/page-6



And this isn't even touching on all the other personal attacks, misquoting me, slandering me and in a topic you have shallow knowledge of.

My background also includes undergraduate Religious Studies, so I do know what I'm talking about on this topic outside of just anecdote and personal study on the subject. Yes I have lots of education - over 12 years in Religious Studies, Sciences and Engineering. I've worked as an Engineer and in related fields for over twelve years. I didn't just fall out of a tree.


gall?? please, more like I have the common sense to acknowledge you have none. you are disingenuous, so you will get no courtesies from me, you don't deserve it & because you have to earn it. you get what you give homeboy. you are not worthy of my respect, because you post nothing of merit.

my entire exchange with you in this thread exposes your inadequacies in upholding your gimmick - you're all over the place. everything I've predicted about how poorly you handle yourself on has been exhibited. others are saying the exact same about you, yet you still regard yourself highly & somehow proud of it? you can't even see how deluded you are. please change your name to: In the name of Hubris.

yes, more lies of your "religious studies" which is pure bullshit/ you reference shill websites & propaganda constantly, have been schooled over & over again in countless threads for years! literally years! you are an armchair enthusiast you pathological liar.

finally, thanks for falling into my trap. I posted the vid of the Muslim NYPD officer to see how you'd react. what'd you do? post more videos of Islamic extremists. that means you could give two shits about Muslim women being harassed !! you're such a joke. you just prove my point you don't care for women.

so please, when I shit on you, it's because you've earned it. you crying about it just means I hit a nerve which means my assessment of you isn't far off.

you are the equivalent of a Muslim Extremist, you know that right?
 
Last edited:
Back
Top