6 cops shot in 3 cities overnight

Good post. The old .45 vs 9mm argument. Like the old 5.56 vs 7.62 argument. I would still go with the .45 for stopping power at close range. .45 will actually kill someone with one good shot to the chest. The problem with the 9mm is too much penetration resulting in through and through shots.

"The .45-caliber round is the bigger bullet, so it has the 'knock down power' to neutralize any adversary with one shot; while pistols that fire 9mm rounds are generally more accurate and can carry more bullets. Where a bullet hits the human body is also a major factor on whether it inflicts a mortal wound. Even though the .45-caliber cartridge has more propellant, the 9mm round usually has more penetrating power because the smaller round faces less air resistance on its nose as it flies through the air."

.45 on the right.

The idea of stopping power is really kind of crap from what research I've put into it. The difference in kinetic energy put into the target is rather miniscule between a 9mm Luger and 45 ACP.

So if you shoot someone in the chest and miss all the vital areas, there's no significant difference in the stopping capability between the two cartridges. Neither are large enough to really produce a temporary cavity of significance. The permanent wound channel sizes are pretty much the same between either round. If you shoot someone in the chest and they go down instantly, they'd almost certainly go down from any round from 9mm Luger to 45ACP.

There's just really no science behind the myth of stopping power when talking about 9mm Luger and 45 ACP. You'd have to get into a comparison between rifle and pistol to have a measurable difference. The kinetic energy of a bullet is about the same as getting punched. It's completely about the damage to vital areas and both rounds perform the same.

What really matters is shot placement. The best way to ensure good shot placement is a manageable firearm, good training, and plenty of ammunition to send downrange. I would argue that the 9mm is usually lighter and has less recoil, which often makes for a more manageable firearm. Obviously it's for comparing similar sized models. With training, ammo is cheaper and a more manageable firearm is more fun to shoot so you'll be more likely to practice more. And of course, real firefights result in piss-poor performance. Statistics seem to indicate that around 70% of shots miss their target with pistols in close quarters. That makes capacity extremely valuable.


http://soldiersystems.net/2014/09/25/fbi-9mm-justification-fbi-training-division/

It just seems like the whole stopping power debate is based on ego other than science and statistics. Guys think a bigger round is akin to a bigger dick. It's not really necessary, it's how you use it that matters. I've been making the transition away from 40 SW and 45 ACP over the last year to the 9mm Luger and I've yet to see a single scientific reason to go back to a bigger round. Modern 9mm Luger hollow point ammunition is more than sufficient for self defense.
 
Statistics seem to indicate that around 70% of shots miss their target with pistols in close quarters. That makes capacity extremely valuable.

Good post. I personally don't like handguns. Puny to me. I've always enjoyed rifles. .22LR all the way up to a 30-06. Depending on the rifle, you can pack more rounds, and the longer barrel makes it for an easier bullet to target shot. Not to mention stopping power and range. Of course you can forget about concealment...
 
Good post. I personally don't like handguns. Puny to me. I've always enjoyed rifles. .22LR all the way up to a 30-06. Depending on the rifle, you can pack more rounds, and the longer barrel makes it for an easier bullet to target shot. Not to mention stopping power and range. Of course you can forget about concealment...

Yeah there's the old military joke about using your M9 to fight your way back to your rifle for a reason! If you're going to a fight you definitely want a rifle. Pistols are pretty shit at killing, but they make up for it with being easily concealable.

Or you could be like this guy

 
You don't understand what statistics means? Far more people die in the fishing industry, its a fact. Sorry its not an emotional trigger for you.

Statistics aside, if you die as a fishing guide, it's typically not a person trying to kill you. Take your head out of your ass.
 
Statistics aside, if you die as a fishing guide, it's typically not a person trying to kill you. Take your head out of your ass.
I'm pretty sure that when you're dead you don't really give a fuck what it is that killed you. Police officer isn't even in the top 10 of most dangerous or deadly jobs, the fishing industry is #1. We also don't get this bullshit hero treatment that you shit-flinging monkeys give to cops. We also don't get their cushy pension.

So while you're throwing around dogshit about how I should take my head out of my ass, maybe stop being a lying crybaby idiot and take a look at yourself and wonder why you're driven by emotion instead of facts.
 
Good post. The old .45 vs 9mm argument. Like the old 5.56 vs 7.62 argument. I would still go with the .45 for stopping power at close range. .45 will actually kill someone with one good shot to the chest. The problem with the 9mm is too much penetration resulting in through and through shots.

"The .45-caliber round is the bigger bullet, so it has the 'knock down power' to neutralize any adversary with one shot; while pistols that fire 9mm rounds are generally more accurate and can carry more bullets. Where a bullet hits the human body is also a major factor on whether it inflicts a mortal wound. Even though the .45-caliber cartridge has more propellant, the 9mm round usually has more penetrating power because the smaller round faces less air resistance on its nose as it flies through the air."

.45 on the right.
This is an ancient argument rendered moot by modern ballistics.
 
I'm pretty sure that when you're dead you don't really give a fuck what it is that killed you. Police officer isn't even in the top 10 of most dangerous or deadly jobs, the fishing industry is #1. We also don't get this bullshit hero treatment that you shit-flinging monkeys give to cops. We also don't get their cushy pension.

So while you're throwing around dogshit about how I should take my head out of my ass, maybe stop being a lying crybaby idiot and take a look at yourself and wonder why you're driven by emotion instead of facts.

Who gives a fuck if you guys die more on the job, you aren't doing a civil service. You typically don't have to worry about someone murdering you or dying in general unless you're a dumb fuck of a guide, which it sounds like you are. Get a different job if people aren't kissing your ass enough, pussy.
 
Who gives a fuck if you guys die more on the job, you aren't doing a civil service. You typically don't have to worry about someone murdering you or dying in general unless you're a dumb fuck of a guide, which it sounds like you are. Get a different job if people aren't kissing your ass enough, pussy.
You don't know the first thing about me, scrotum. My ass is kissed just enough, thank you very much. Why you so butthurt Snowflake? You sound angry an unhinged... You a cop? I sure hope not.
 
https://www.yahoo.com/gma/6-police-...es-friday-042707228--abc-news-topstories.html

I feel like what's happening here is a lapse in threat assessment due to the media and public crucifying police officers for using deadly force. Their job is to serve and protect, and they can do neither if they're dead.

Follow procedure and you'll be fine, regardless of who sits for the national anthem.

Possibly, but unlikely. Look at Betty Shelby, she shot Terence Crutcher (I think reasonably) at the height of the BLM protests, because as she explained on 60 Minutes, she would rather risk going to court than being murdered. The media can't put officers in jail, and juries are not putting cops in jail either, even in the Philando Castile case, which was a tragically terrible decision by the cop. Bad guys can put good cops in the grave, and I don't think bad press is enough for officers to put themselves at risk of not going home to their families.
 
Look at Betty Shelby, she shot Terence Crutcher (I think reasonably) at the height of the BLM protests, because as she explained on 60 Minutes, she would rather risk going to court than being murdered. Bad guys can put good cops in the grave.

I was in Tulsa when that happened, September 16, 2016. 4 cops on the scene (picture below). No gun found on suspect. 1 cop shoots, 1 cop tasers, and the other 2 cops are standing by ready to taser. No need for Shelby to pull the trigger. In my opinion police are relying entirely too much on their weapons. How can 4 cops not be able to apprehend 1 unarmed man? Shelby panicked, end of story. Lazy and poorly trained. Shoot Crutcher in the legs. Why did the other 3 male officers not have their guns drawn? Bad cops can put good guys in the grave. This is the kind of shit that triggers the 'Black Lives Matter' protests. Also, read about the Tulsa race riot of 1921. Seems like things have not changed all that much. Cops are killing people with 75% ambiguity.

"Police stated that Crutcher kept reaching into his pocket, refused to show his hands, walked towards his vehicle despite being told to stop, and then angled towards and reached into his vehicle. Critics have disputed this, as video and photographic evidence seems to contradict this, showing Crutcher's blood streaking the driver's side window from top to bottom after the shooting and indicating it was closed. Turnbough tased Crutcher, and Shelby shot him. Approximately two minutes after the shot, an officer checked Crutcher's pockets, and approximately 45 seconds later, someone crouched to offer aid. Police said Crutcher died in the hospital later that day. Tulsa police chief Chuck Jordan said no weapon was recovered from Crutcher's body or vehicle."

There is video of the whole incident, but I'm not going to post it here. You can find it yourself. I'm a white male by the way and don't support the 'BLM' movement.

 
I'm pretty sure that when you're dead you don't really give a fuck what it is that killed you. Police officer isn't even in the top 10 of most dangerous or deadly jobs, the fishing industry is #1. We also don't get this bullshit hero treatment that you shit-flinging monkeys give to cops. We also don't get their cushy pension.

So while you're throwing around dogshit about how I should take my head out of my ass, maybe stop being a lying crybaby idiot and take a look at yourself and wonder why you're driven by emotion instead of facts.
is it often for fisherman to get assassinated just for being a fisherman?
 
is it often for fisherman to get assassinated just for being a fisherman?
Happens all the time.





Is it often for police to get assassinated just for being cops? In reality - far, far more fisherman and their families are affected by the danger of the job than police are killed. So sorry your narrative is complete bullshit.
 
Happens all the time.





Is it often for police to get assassinated just for being cops? In reality - far, far more fisherman and their families are affected by the danger of the job than police are killed. So sorry your narrative is complete bullshit.
so please explain to me why police agencies all over the countries are having a hard time recruiting people? my department offers $15k sign on bonus + cushy pension + 70K starting salary. yet, we still have a problem meeting our recruiting goal?

The economy is THAT good now?
 
You don't know the first thing about me, scrotum. My ass is kissed just enough, thank you very much. Why you so butthurt Snowflake? You sound angry an unhinged... You a cop? I sure hope not.

I know you're a dipshit that no one respects. I'm glad your ass is kissed enough at your job. So what's your problem? We don't want you dropping dead at your job and inflating the statistics of standing on the side of a river, so take a breather champ.
 
so please explain to me why police agencies all over the countries are having a hard time recruiting people? my department offers $15k sign on bonus + cushy pension + 70K starting salary. yet, we still have a problem meeting our recruiting goal?

The economy is THAT good now?
What the fuck does that have to do with anything?
 
I was in Tulsa when that happened, September 16, 2016. 4 cops on the scene (picture below). No gun found on suspect. 1 cop shoots, 1 cop tasers, and the other 2 cops are standing by ready to taser. No need for Shelby to pull the trigger. In my opinion police are relying entirely too much on their weapons. How can 4 cops not be able to apprehend 1 unarmed man? Shelby panicked, end of story. Lazy and poorly trained. Shoot Crutcher in the legs. Why did the other 3 male officers not have their guns drawn? Bad cops can put good guys in the grave. This is the kind of shit that triggers the 'Black Lives Matter' protests. Also, read about the Tulsa race riot of 1921. Seems like things have not changed all that much. Cops are killing people with 75% ambiguity.

"Police stated that Crutcher kept reaching into his pocket, refused to show his hands, walked towards his vehicle despite being told to stop, and then angled towards and reached into his vehicle. Critics have disputed this, as video and photographic evidence seems to contradict this, showing Crutcher's blood streaking the driver's side window from top to bottom after the shooting and indicating it was closed. Turnbough tased Crutcher, and Shelby shot him. Approximately two minutes after the shot, an officer checked Crutcher's pockets, and approximately 45 seconds later, someone crouched to offer aid. Police said Crutcher died in the hospital later that day. Tulsa police chief Chuck Jordan said no weapon was recovered from Crutcher's body or vehicle."

There is video of the whole incident, but I'm not going to post it here. You can find it yourself. I'm a white male by the way and don't support the 'BLM' movement.


Oh yeah, I have seen the video multiple times (there was a thread about it here when it happened) and I watch the 60 Minutes episode where they interviewed Shelby, and I think Shelby firing when she did was reasonable. I don't think you have a sound understanding of the case.




Crutcher was high on PCP (while driving), was acting bizarrely, and was not acknowledging Shelby's commands to stop, and instead continued toward his vehicle without acknowledging anything she was saying. Shelby was the first officer on the scene at ground zero, making a real time decision that her life was at risk based on his behavior, and I don't fault her for the decision she made, same with the jury who listened to the case. She was very well trained, was in control, and was following her training. Dude decided to take PCP and drive his car, and ended up abandoning his running vehicle in the middle of the road and Shelby walked into the situation where Crutcher was totally out of control and totally out of touch with reality. It sucks he died, but dude put himself and officer Shelby in that situation. Civilization requires one to be civilized, and Crutcher was acting like a total psycho and didn't listen to a cop with her gun drawn.
 
why the fuck do you think people don't want to be cop anymore VS say 10-20 years ago despite good pay, sign on bonuses, and nice pension?


Think about it
I can think of lots of reasons I wouldn't want to be a cop, and the fear of assassination isn't really anywhere near the top 10.

- Stress
- You're hated and unappreciated but the citizens you're charged with protecting
- For the most part your only friends will be cops
- You detach from society and end up resenting the citizens you're charged with protecting
- Shit pay
- Gay uniforms
- Eating lots of spit
- Tons of driving around
- Shift work
- Shit command
 
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