6 cops shot in 3 cities overnight

[cleetus]

That is fucking amazing! A cop in California can kill a man for throwing a punch. That's California for you. My mistake -- correction. The police here in Oklahoma killed two black men for doing nothing. One shot by accident. The other shot under 'suspicion' of having a gun. There was no gun. So, why do cops carry mace, a baton, and a taser? Blacks are being shot even when there are 5 police officers present to help apprehend. I'm white by the way. Much like war and the rest of life. You live with the consequences of your actions. Right or wrong.

We don't get paid to fight fair. When we are forced into a fight, we win by using whatever tools necessary. So if you are some guy that's going to be able to beat my ass in a bout of fisticuffs, I can use a baton on you. But since Rodney King, I won't carry a baton. So, if you attack me, you're taking your life into your hands if there's a good chance of me getting wrecked.

 

[FIMN]

Talking negatively about Obama is not a racial generalization. Democrats don't say terrible and inaccurate things about Trump?

This is mainstream in the left-wing circles. I could go on, and on, and on, and on with examples.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...e-than-authoritarianism-or-income-inequality/
Racism motivated Trump voters more than authoritarianism

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/dec/13/obama-says-racism-us-surfaces-violent-opposition-p/

Obama says racism evident in ‘violent opposition’ to programs to help minorities

Could you please address what I posted? Otherwise it seems like you're incapable.

 

[FIMN]

Fixed

The fact you have to change my post rather than address it is pretty telling.

 

[Toothless King]

That is fucking amazing! A cop in California can kill a man for throwing a punch. That's California for you. My mistake -- correction. The police here in Oklahoma killed two black men for doing nothing. One shot by accident. The other shot under 'suspicion' of having a gun. There was no gun. So, why do cops carry mace, a baton, and a taser? Blacks are being shot even when there are 5 police officers present to help apprehend. I'm white by the way. Much like war and the rest of life. You live with the consequences of your actions. Right or wrong.

I can't comment because i wasn't there when the cop in OK killed two dudes. Were you there?

and I'm a minority cop (aka not white) so I don't buy into that whole white guilt bullshit for doing my job.

 

[Toothless King]

This sort of blanket statement suggests that use of force is black and white. It's not. Each case should be judged individually because the circumstances surrounding each case are different.

Sometimes it's 100% reasonable to shoot an unarmed person. Again, it depends on the circumstances, including the knowledge available to the officer at the time of the shooting, exhaustion, size/strength difference, the nature of the suspected crime, etc etc etc.

Also, I'm not sure how they do it in the Army, but I'd like some elaboration on what you meant by your clarification that cops shoot "to kill, not to wound" because it seems like you're suggesting that it's acceptable by ANY department's standards to fire a gun just to wound somebody. If you aren't intending to use deadly force, you probably shouldn't be shooting at people, right...?

I don't know what kind of bullshit "Army training" Phr3121 received when he was in, but in the Army we don't shoot to wound enemy combatants. We shoot to stop the threat with 2 in the chest and 1 in the head

 

[Bargey]

The fact you have to change my post rather than address it is pretty telling.

Haha no need. What I fixed made your statement true. But it's not exactly controversial - I mean - don't most people think Obama was a can? Even some that can't stand Trump?

 

[Squarechoke]

So when you claimed that "more cops did not die during Obama's term" were you talking about while on duty, off duty, or both combined? Does that include dying in a car accident for example? We are talking specifically about police officers who have died from being attacked by a suspect, or suspects (not all possible causes). What statistics did you have available? I would have been nice if you had provided a source for the sake of reference and verification.

So the question becomes this. Were you being deliberately misleading or unintentionally vague in your wording?

As I like to say. Context matters.

........................................

http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/29/polit...enforcement-officers-memorial-fund/index.html

Police fatality report: Car accidents among top cause of death

"...A study by the National Law Enforcement Officers Memorial Fund examined the deaths of 684 police officers over a five-year period found that 272 officers died from being in an automobile crash or being struck by an automobile. A further look at these incidents found that "a large number of the crashes investigated were not related to either a call for service or a case of self-initiated activity," the report said...."

............................

http://www.policemag.com/channel/patrol/articles/2016/09/police-are-less-safe-under-obama.aspx

Police are Less Safe Under Obama


"...WP Wonkblog: Police are safer under Obama than they have been in decades." I'm not sure what "Police" the White House and blog author Christopher Ingraham were referring to, but their assertion certainly doesn't apply to law enforcement officers serving in the United States.

The blog referenced statistics regarding all causes of police fatalities to reach its false conclusion that officers are safer under Obama. It included statistics reflecting a reduction in vehicular related deaths. Nonetheless, Ingraham wrote, "Intentional attacks on police officers are at historically low levels under President Obama." Ingraham references ambush attacks against officers and contends the "numbers are a little murkier." He goes on to state, "These (ambushes) are generally rare, with the number of officers dying in these attacks each year in the single or double digits." And his next sentence is the grand contradiction of his blog's false title: "But they (ambushes) have become slightly more common."

Slightly? Here's a slice of historical truth. According to the National Law Enforcement Officers Memorial Fund (NLEOMF), 64 law enforcement officers were fatally ambushed in the eight years of President George W. Bush's administration. As of July 17, 94 officers have been fatally ambushed under President Obama's ongoing eight years of office..."

The source is FBI-LEOKA, although accessing the website for the direct statistics is terrible as it bans you if you watch a few pages in a short while. The shittiest official statistics page I've ever seen. So it's easier to show references to it, like this graph:

As you can see it's deaths as the result of crime, so accidents are not included and no single crime is being ripped out to try to skew the overall image of safety.

And again, the point I was refuting was that Obama created the worst situation for policemen since the 60s. It's an absurd statement and it goes pretty hilariously together with how Trump fans take every chance to give him all credit for positive statistics without context, but obviously clearly ignore them when it comes to Obama and just make shit up. I guess that's why the author of said statement haven't replied to me, as plenty of people here stop talking when they are proven wrong.

As I made clear I don't have any stakes in any American president and I'm not part of the horrible team mentality that's going on here, so I'm just refuting an absurd statement and I don't care which president it was about.

PS. I have perfect vision and I'm reading on a pretty large monitor so I don't need the huge text

 

[Phelly2]

I don't know what kind of bullshit "Army training" Phr3121 received when he was in, but in the Army we don't shoot to wound enemy combatants. We shoot to stop the threat with 2 in the chest and 1 in the head

haha, I hear you.
I didn't mean to put down the Army or its training, I was just hoping Phr3121's pride in his own Army experience would show itself because so far all I've heard from him is the political talking points common to those pundits who have no training or experience, but somehow seem to have all the answers.

I've never been in the military but I have been a Border Patrol agent for about 10 years and I've been in a few situations (for example, an uncooperative/passive resistant motorist with a gun hidden by his leg) where I would be dead if they wanted me dead, and it ain't a whole lot of fun.

 

[FIMN]

Haha no need. What I fixed made your statement true. But it's not exactly controversial - I mean - don't most people think Obama was a can? Even some that can't stand Trump?

Is there any point when you ignore my point and change my post?

The fact you are doing that is telling.

 

[Phr3121]

I can't comment because i wasn't there when the cop in OK killed two dudes. Were you there?

I don't know what kind of bullshit "Army training" Phr3121 received when he was in, but in the Army we don't shoot to wound enemy combatants. We shoot to stop the threat with 2 in the chest and 1 in the head

I watched on television the killing of the two black men here in Oklahoma. Dude, I've mentioned 3 times what I did in the U.S. Army. What part of it did you not understand? As an Infantry soldier I had the same kind of 'bullshit' Army training you had at the Ft. Benning school for boys - well, now the girls are joining the Infantry and fucking everything up. One shot to the chest with the old M1911 .45 pistol. The Beretta M9 is a piece of shit, that's why you need 1 to the head and 2 to the chest.

 

[DoomPatrol]

While I think President Obama had several notable failings during his 8 years as President of the United States, I think it's absolutely insane to pretend like he's the cause for an increase in violence against police. In fact, that's one of the most retarded things I've ever heard. You are seriously delusional as fuck if that's what you honestly believe.

 

[zebby23]

While I think President Obama had several notable failings during his 8 years as President of the United States, I think it's absolutely insane to pretend like he's the cause for an increase in violence against police. In fact, that's one of the most retarded things I've ever heard. You are seriously delusional as fuck if that's what you honestly believe.

Police culture is the reason for increased shootings

 

[DoomPatrol]

I watched on television the killing of the two black men here in Oklahoma. Dude, I've mentioned 3 times what I did in the U.S. Army. What part of it did you not understand? As an Infantry soldier I had the same kind of 'bullshit' Army training you had at the Ft. Benning school for boys - well, now the girls are joining the Infantry and fucking everything up. One shot to the chest with the old M1911 .45 pistol. The Beretta M9 is a piece of shit, that's why you need 1 to the head and 2 to the chest.

There's really not much of a terminal ballistic difference between a .45 ACP and a 9mm Luger. That's just old nut flexing that doesn't match the reality of modern ammo. 9mm hollow point ammunition is more than sufficient as a cartridge. The real issue is that pistols are just shit for killing people. The biggest determination in lethality is penetration depth, which 9mm Luger is typically better. The only other factor really is shot placement. You need to hit something like an artery or vein, vital organs, or cause CNS damage to really put a target down. All modern defensive cartridges perform equally well at causing damage inside the body.

This is pretty much resolved science at this point. Quantico has done tons of studies on this, and that's why the major law enforcement and military uses 9mm over 45 ACP now. Capacity and recoil management are way more valuable than a fractional increase in wound channel diameter. I used to be a proponent of the 45 ACP over 9mm Luger until I started doing actual research on the terminal ballistics and studies on effectiveness. When people miss about 70% of their shots in an actual situation, magazine capacity is extremely important. Most 9mm models can carry double the rounds of a 45 ACP in the 1911 format.

The M9 is a pretty shitty weapon in the military because most of them have been shot a million times. It's a pretty decent weapon if you find a new one. I'm interested in the new Sig they are adapting. I'm not a fan of striker fired guns, but if they can fix the drop safe issues with it, it seems like a decent option. I'm still a fan of the P226 though.

 

[nhbbear]

I owe @cleetus credit. I realized I left him out of my discussion as to the other officers that contributed in this thread. My bad, Cleet

 

[Stokanator]

One of my wife's friend's who she has just recently became reacquainted with fairly recently has a husband in law enforcement and works for the city of Phoenix. For those unfamiliar with the city, it has its safe areas with very expensive housing, and troubled areas with abandon homes, dark streets that you'd rather avoid if at all necessary.

His got 11 years under his belt and the department recently just switched to patrol a crappy neighborhood and he said its as if its a completely different job! If he want 37 and 9 years always from a pension he'd have quit shortly after being reassigned. Now he's trying to get into a training position.

 

[Lex Bigelow]

This must've been by the alt right. All I keep hearing on TV is that they are the biggest threat to peace in the world.

 

[Bargey]

Is there any point when you ignore my point and change my post?

The fact you are doing that is telling.

You gotta relax a bit...if you live somewhere that pot is legal, then it might be time to pick up the bong....

 

[FIMN]

You gotta relax a bit...if you live somewhere that pot is legal, then it might be time to pick up the bong....

It's a little frustrating when people display really limited knowledge, blinkered views and no interest in dealing with points raised. I know its f54 but cmon.

*rips huge bong hit*

 

[Phr3121]

There's really not much of a terminal ballistic difference between a .45 ACP and a 9mm Luger. The biggest determination in lethality is penetration depth, which 9mm Luger is typically better. All modern defensive cartridges perform equally well at causing damage inside the body.

Good post. The old .45 vs 9mm argument. Like the old 5.56 vs 7.62 argument. I would still go with the .45 for stopping power at close range. .45 will actually kill someone with one good shot to the chest. The problem with the 9mm is too much penetration resulting in through and through shots.

"The .45-caliber round is the bigger bullet, so it has the 'knock down power' to neutralize any adversary with one shot; while pistols that fire 9mm rounds are generally more accurate and can carry more bullets. Where a bullet hits the human body is also a major factor on whether it inflicts a mortal wound. Even though the .45-caliber cartridge has more propellant, the 9mm round usually has more penetrating power because the smaller round faces less air resistance on its nose as it flies through the air."

.45 on the right.

 

[LostSoul]

Cop killer appears to have been a radicalized Muslim convert. Shocked.

"But, but, but, white nationalists."

"Everett Glenn Miller changed his name to Malik Mohammad Ali, which is the name listed on Ali’s Facebook account. As seen on the Malik Mohammad Ali Facebook page, Malik has (Glenn Miller) in parenthesis in his Facebook header."