50/50 strategies

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by Armwrap, Jun 18, 2017.

  1. Armwrap Orange Belt

    Armwrap
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    Hi. A lot of matches in the Worlds ended up in 50/50 and it was the number one sweeping position. I want to hear your opinions on strategy and concepts of the 50/50.

    What are you concentrating on (concept-wise) when you end up in 50/50?
     
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  2. davou White Belt

    davou
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    I goto 50-50 when I have confidence that I know the position better than the other person, OR if I have a strong confidence that the other person wants to smash me and is large enough to impose it easily.

    when I get into 50-50 I focus on isolating the other persons legs from each other, either by passing one across my lap, or by using my elbow to split and driving the outside foot away.

    In no gi attack heelhook immediately. In gi, try to control for a toe hold and threaten cloverleafsif the person triangles poorly.

    If my feet are in danger, in gi I go for 50-spider, and in no gi I try to get an underhook and pull them chest to chest with me. If I can get them close its usually easy to stomp out of whatever they were mucking about on my feet. I'll usually try to threaten a straight armlock here as I fall back to go after the other persons feet.

    If they try to stand up, stomp out, under hook the outside leg and pass it over. If I can get one of their legs on each side, I'll attack Achilles locks and go belly down if I can close my grips.

    Hope that helps
     
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  3. Was at Pride GP 2000 Brown Belt

    Was at Pride GP 2000
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    I try to never do 50 50
     
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  4. DVD review guy Green Belt

    DVD review guy
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    The 50/50 guard is stuck in it's infancy. There's so much room for evolving the position. Forget the leg attacks. The upper body attacks are endless.

    Speaking of 50/50, does anyone know if, or, when, Ryan Hall is going to fight again?
     
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  5. Dana_is_your_GOD Platinum Chram deal with it

    Dana_is_your_GOD
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    5050 back take is nice. Also 5050 a ft armbar. Knee bar too and basic sweep
     
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  6. ArtemV Silver Belt

    ArtemV
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    I like to ankle lock/heel hook; these are my main go to techniques from 50/50; however, I rarely get into this position.
     
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  7. Uchi Mata Gold Belt

    Uchi Mata
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    I don't care at all about developing strategies for IBJJF rule sets at this point, as such my 50/50 game is based on heel hooking or otherwise finishing the guy with a lower body sub while putting myself in as little danger as possible to be hit or submitted myself. A lot of what I do is based on Hayden's 80/20 positioning system, though I use pieces from Cavaca, Roli, Panza, the DDS guys, and my 50/50 guru @ijustwannasurf
     
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  8. ijustwannasurf Brown Belt

    ijustwannasurf
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    @Uchi Mata and I have spent a lot of time micro-drilling 50/50. From a conceptual standpoint, the first thing to worry about is your knees. You do not want to accept an actual 50/50; you want your body turned inside, with your inside knee below uke's inside knee and thigh. You want to be more perpendicular to their leg than parallel. From there, a good clamp with your knees keeps their legs and hips 'above' yours, and gives you a structural advantage to attack.

    As Uchi mentioned, we don't sweep. Even in the gi, we try for kneebars, toeholds, or my favorite- the footlock on their outside leg. At the very least, solid attacks will land you in a better position. If you want to focus on IBJJF, get your knees in the right position and attack the outside foot. Watch Renato Cardoso or Cavaca.
     
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  9. SubmissionarY White Belt

    SubmissionarY
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  10. Badger67 Taxidea taxus

    Badger67
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    Heel hooks.
     
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  11. trustdoesntrust Green Belt

    trustdoesntrust
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    You really need to understand how to control the position. In a shorthand sense, if you sit up and turn out (with opponent's knee out) then you can attack positionally (with a stepover, unhooking pass, armbar, back take, etc.), but if you're turned in then you can attack the legs. You don't ever want to be just flat on your back, and you need to be aware of how to keep your feet safe while you maneuver. As was already mentioned, the goal is to be almost perpendicular when you attack, which greatly increases leverage for your leglocks and greatly increases space for your positional attacks. If the gi, I personally try to get a near side spider hook as soon as possible
     
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    Last edited: Jun 24, 2017
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  12. Steve08 American Fedor Belt

    Steve08
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    I haven't trained in more than a year but when I did find myself in leg spaghetti positions one thing I'd do besides leglock is try to wind up on top during the scrambles. Probably not offering anything new in this. Oh well.
    Explain?
     
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  13. closequarters Green Belt

    closequarters
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    If we wind up in 50/50 during a scramble, after attacking each other's feet for a minute or two, we usually just kind of disengage semi cooperatively just to keep the roll moving along. Bad habit, I know :(

    I need to practice actually escaping the position against someone trying to keep me there.
     
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  14. Dogstarman Old man jiu jitsu

    Dogstarman
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    When I can heel hook a guy.
     
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  15. Mikey Triangles Bending Joints the Wrong Way Since 1985

    Mikey Triangles
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    50/50 is pretty unique and totally changes based on the rules. It can be great for all kinds of submissions and ground and pound positions, but the entanglement makes it tough. I like it a lot if my opponent isn't well versed there, but since almost everyone with high level jiujitsu has a decent understanding of it these days I usually just abondone it.

    The cool thing about 50/50 is that it isn't quite as hard to abondone as people think. Most of the time to escape a leglock position you have to escape your knee line, which is not easy to do while your opponent tries their best to control your knee line, especially in 50/50 since you're so tangled. So I don't bother. I just help escape my opponents kneeline and kick them out. Way easier then trying to escape your own. 50/50 requires both kneelines trapped so it doesn't matter if it's yours or theirs that escapes.
     
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  16. MaxMMA Blue Belt

    MaxMMA
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    I try my best to stay out of this position, but sometimes its unavoidable, especially when you're trying to pass open guard standing.

    If I get there I try to remain standing and start dropping shots then try to smash the legs down when they go to cover up. Even if I go down, or get to that position in a scramble i'll try to stand and smash out, or put my knee to the ground and spin out.

    And I actually really love lower body attacks, just not from that position.
     
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  17. trustdoesntrust Green Belt

    trustdoesntrust
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    One big thing about 50/50 is there's a huge distinction between people who really understand how to play it, and people who just find themselves there and act like it's shit stuck to the bottom of their shoes. A guy who understands 50/50 would never just let you stand up and get your base to drop punches on him, and if you try to spin or smash out then you could get kneebarred pretty quickly. But certainly, against less familiar opponents who don't really want to be there, it's a great strategy to strong arm your way into a favorable scramble.
     
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  18. MaxMMA Blue Belt

    MaxMMA
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    You have to work on your boot, then work to get your other leg underneath you to get back up. Throwing punches while your ass is on the mat might not deter someone from attacking your legs, but if you get your free leg underneath you to create some posture, the blows become much harder to ignore.
     
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  19. Mikey Triangles Bending Joints the Wrong Way Since 1985

    Mikey Triangles
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    There are ways to use the position for ground and pound just as there are ways to use the position for submissions and sweeps. ground and pound tends to make the "bottom" opponent much more aggressive and occasionally does allow for the knee line to get cleared with a "spin". in an MMA context the position is quite different. Probably just as different as when you're not allowed to do heel hooks and have a Gi on. If you haven't used it much in an MMA context it may be difficult for you to imagine how, but to say "you can't escape like that against anyone good", is a bit close minded. That escape is certainly not my "go to", but it's not something you should completely brush off without exploring either. here is Alan Belcher doing something similar against Toquinho Palhares:

     
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    Last edited: Jul 1, 2017
  20. trustdoesntrust Green Belt

    trustdoesntrust
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    Belcher spun out of the heel hook, which Palhares overcommitted on. But to the other poster's point, 50/50 is controlled by the direction and position of the knee line. Doing ground and pound from 50/50 requires an opponent who is not focusing on keeping your knee controlled, because otherwise you would only be able to base away from him and throw hammerfists. I can say with 100% certainty that if you just try to get your base and stand while in 50/50 then I will turn your knee out, shoot my hips up and knock you back down. Spinning out has more potential, but it's a dangerous strategy if you try to force it when the position is still neutral. I don't do MMA, though I've trained a little in the past, but I feel like there'd be some interesting possibilities with using heel strikes to set up the kinds of positions you and the other poster suggest.
     
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