50-0: The Best Ever
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I'm no Floyd fan, but his record is absolutely amazing. Tons of champions and title holders, titles in 5 categories, a long period of dominance.
Only 1 of the JDs he ever got is questionable, and he won the rematch against Castillo with ease. This side of a few timing issues (the time he took to fight Pacquiao could be blamed on both sides, there might be a case for pre-Margarito Cotto) that are pretty common in boxing, as Seano pointed out with Leonard, the only fighters he "ducked" were Margarito and Paul Williams, who were good but not great. Floyd beat soundly 3 guys who beat Marg, and I assume he'd have had a good chance of beating P-Will if Quintana did so.
If you mix titles, quantity and quality of wins, and skills, Floyd is absolutely top 10 - 12, top 5 is a matter of subjectivity.
To me he's in the same league as SRR, Greb, Armstrong, Ali, Louis, SRL, Langford, Pep, Duran, Roy Jones, Saddler and Benny Leonard. A case could be made to put him above some of these deserving fellows.
Only 1 of the JDs he ever got is questionable, and he won the rematch against Castillo with ease. This side of a few timing issues (the time he took to fight Pacquiao could be blamed on both sides, there might be a case for pre-Margarito Cotto) that are pretty common in boxing, as Seano pointed out with Leonard, the only fighters he "ducked" were Margarito and Paul Williams, who were good but not great. Floyd beat soundly 3 guys who beat Marg, and I assume he'd have had a good chance of beating P-Will if Quintana did so.
If you mix titles, quantity and quality of wins, and skills, Floyd is absolutely top 10 - 12, top 5 is a matter of subjectivity.
To me he's in the same league as SRR, Greb, Armstrong, Ali, Louis, SRL, Langford, Pep, Duran, Roy Jones, Saddler and Benny Leonard. A case could be made to put him above some of these deserving fellows.
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J
Julius_Caesar
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So Ali's resume
vs
Floyd being undefeated. The way Floyd defeated opponents (only had problems with Castillo and Maidana who he came back and defeated more clearly in the rematches). Floyd dominating 5 weight classes (Ali only 1). Highest accuracy percentage in boxing history at 46% compared to the 16% his opponents have landed on him (mayweather's overall plus/minus number is plus-30 percent—subtracting the amount a fighter is hit from the amount a fighter lands punches—far ahead of any other top fighter, regardless of weight class). All on top of Floyd having a good resume himself.
The only argument for Ali being better is his resume which IMO is not that much better than Floyd's.
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Completely agree. Ducked all the top black fighters of his era.
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People let their hate of Floyd and his arrogance cloud their judgement. He's an ATG. I don't care for him or his defensive style, but I call a spade a spade. I still say only a handful of guys in history have more "quality" wins on their records than Floyd. Look at Sugar Ray Leonard as an example... he beat Hearns, Hagler, Duran and Benitez. But he also lost to Duran and should have lost to Hearns in the rematch. He was also younger than Floyd when he was beaten by Norris and about Floyds age when he was TKO'ed by Camacho. Granted the Hagler and Hearns wins were huge. If people try to claim Floyd waited for Manny and Mosley to get old, same could be said for SRL's win over Duran, he was forced to fight when he wasn't ready.
He's in the mix, and you can say that because of his longevity, punch connection statistics and technical skills.
But as has already been said, resume is the final proof. And even resumes only tell part of the story.
People have short memories. 20 years from now, all they will remember is that he beat pacquiao, mosely, de la hoya, marquez and cotto. They wont remember the timing of the fights or that none of these guys were prime.
Floyd also wasnt at his prime, but in pacquiao's case for example, a shorter opponent with high output fighting style, age tilted it to mayweathers favour.
It cant compare with leonard, who fought in his own prime against other ATG prime-ish fighters.
But as has already been said, resume is the final proof. And even resumes only tell part of the story.
People have short memories. 20 years from now, all they will remember is that he beat pacquiao, mosely, de la hoya, marquez and cotto. They wont remember the timing of the fights or that none of these guys were prime.
Floyd also wasnt at his prime, but in pacquiao's case for example, a shorter opponent with high output fighting style, age tilted it to mayweathers favour.
It cant compare with leonard, who fought in his own prime against other ATG prime-ish fighters.
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What years do you guys consider to be Floyd's prime? I kinda feel like the older methodical Mayweather was better than his more hungry younger self, even with the knockouts not being as frequent.
Thats a great question.
Physical prime was anytime up to around Gatti?
Mental prime maybe around Canelo. That was one of my favorite floyd performances, masterful.
I guess the physical and mental primes dovetail somewhere inbetween, around the time he fought De La Hoya.
Gatti until Hatton possibly.
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Not a fan, but Floyd is the epitome of perfection.
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Being undefeated is a novelty. It means you were consistently performing but it shouldn't get you these extra points, it doesn't mean you would be able to accomplish the same feats that other fights did. Climbing to the top of a steep hill 10 times is not more impressive than climbing a mountain, even if you fail to reach the top of other mountains and hills at different points in time.
Floyd has an ATG resume and some very impressive performances but he simply lacks the big wins to propel him to top 15 status. He's arguably not even the greatest fighter in his own era, with Hopkins and Pacquiao and DLH having resumes that easily compete with his.
Floyd has an ATG resume and some very impressive performances but he simply lacks the big wins to propel him to top 15 status. He's arguably not even the greatest fighter in his own era, with Hopkins and Pacquiao and DLH having resumes that easily compete with his.
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Leonard's wins totally eclipse Floyd's. The fact he lost to a better fighter than Floyd ever faced can't be held against him when comparing him to Floyd. Losses don't erase accomplishments and Leonard certainly accomplished more. The list of fighters with better resumes than Floyd is more than just a handful. Floyd is an ATG because of his depth, but he lacks a lot of prime quality single wins, and plenty of ATG's have both.
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So Pac and DLH, who Floyd both beat, are better fighters than him in this generation?
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He beat both of them well past their prime. Pacquiao was more his contemporary though so that argument holds less weight even though he was stopped dramatically.
De La Hoya's resume has just as much depth and has better single wins.
ATG Pernell Whitaker (giving him his 1st loss in 9 years and 2nd overall)
ATG Prime Trinidad (robbery)
HOF Prime Fernando Vargas
ATG Mosley 2 (robbery) 7 years before Mayweather fought him
HOF Hector Camacho
Ike Quartey
A still game Julio Cesar Chavez
Oba Carr
An undefeated Genaro Hernandez 3 years before Mayweather fought him
Strum at 160 where DLH had no business competing
Ricardo Mayorga
Yori Boy Campas
Jesse James Leija
Gatti 4 years before Mayweather fought him
Miguel Angel Gonzales
Rafael Ruelas
John John Molina
Top to bottom it's quality champions and contenders. He went above and beyond taking risks, fought everybody, and won more titles in more divisions than Floyd did. A competitive SD loss past his prime doesn't erase the quality of that resume.
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DLH does have a strong resume. That being said, a loss is a loss and the Trinidad and Mosley fights aren't wins. Otherwise it goes both ways and you should discard the Whitaker and the Sturm wins.
Floyd beat a pretty good version of DLH and more other future or potential hall of famers than him : Pacquiao, Cotto, Alvarez, Corrales, Castillo x2, Gatti, Hatton, Marquez, Mosley.
And beyond the top dogs there's density : Maidanax2, Berto, Guerrero, Ortiz, Baldomir, Judah, Mitchell, Hernandez, Manfredy, Ndou, Corley.
On top of this he has won his 50 pro fights until the age of 40 while DLH is 39-6 and retired earlier.
I do give a lot of credit to Oscar, but he didn't achieve as much as Floyd did.
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Trying to think of the best resume to compare with Floyd, maybe Holyfield? He's got wins over Tyson 2x, Bowe, Douglas, Foreman, Holmes, Mercer, Moorer, Dokes, Qawi 2x, and a BS draw with Lewis which he clearly lost.
That's a great resume, but Floyds is still quite a bit better IMO.
That's a great resume, but Floyds is still quite a bit better IMO.
A
AusMMAfan
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I don't know how someone can go 50-0 in 5 divisions and dominate over 20 years and not be GOAT?
Am I missing something?
Am I missing something?
