50-0: The Best Ever

[Seano]

There are a multiple number of flaws that I personally perceive based on the way I understand boxing:

1. 'Bonus points for name notoriety'- beating the very best ever, in their primes/near their primes is an unbelievable feat. Sugar Ray Leonard beat boxing's absolute best, in the many different styles. 'Name notoriety' is not the accurate way to perceive them.

Hearns wasn't great when Ray beat him. If Canelo isn't a great win for Floyd, then why is Hearns a great win for Leonard? Beating the best is what Floyd did.

2. Bernard Hopkins was around 49 years old, beating 'super world champion' Beibut Shumenov. Is Bernard Hopkins the greatest ever because he has gone a full 10 years fighting beyond Mayweather, with 17 more fights, too! Appealing to age as the biggest factor is not how analysing boxing history works because there's more to longevity than your actual age. Ring age is what is most important.

Longevity is a huuuuuuge part of Hopkins' legacy. It'll be a major factor when historians are trying to figure out where to rank him.

3. Beating Hagler was a brilliant feat because, although past prime, Ray Leonard himself was also past prime coming up in weight. Ray Leonard got the W (an ultimately even fight) with Hagler.

Hagler was "past his best" or "not in his prime"- whatever it is that makes Pacquiao not a great win for Floyd. Ray himself admits he waited for Hagler to get old. See, this is how it works. You apply a standard to one, then you have to apply it to the other.

4. 'Floyd's win over Marquez is bogus because he came up in weight?' - Marquez put on the weight wrong, he even admitted to this. There's a massive difference between his abilities as the one who turned up against Mayweather (who outweighed him by 6lbs at the weigh in incidentally which is an even bigger diabolical shambles against someone who is already 2 weight classes below you as it is).

Right. Marquez. Wrong weight. Well, Duran had to poop so that win doesn't count for Leonard either. Can't be at your best when you have to poop. Duran doesn't count for Hagler either. Wrong weight.

Can you imagine Rigondeaux coming up to 130 to fight Lomachenko, where Lomachenko weighs in at Lightweight because he simply can't be bothered making weight, all whilst Rigondeaux putting on bulk ineffectively? Rigo is a bigger talent than Marquez anyway so maybe that wasn't even the right example.

He is coming up in weight to fight Lomachenko. Some people are calling it a great fight.

5. Hagler proved that he is one of the best ever. I'm not completely sure though if Hagler is a Top 50 ATG, he definitely isn't Top 40 in my ranking in terms of overall greatness (which isn't solely ability remember), so the point your making has no significance.

I agree Hagler is great, except when you apply stupid, unreasonable standards to the guy like people do with Floyd.

6. Duran had nothing to lose, everything to gain going into that fight. He lost 16 times but he's someone who's unanimously seen as greater than Mayweather can ever dream of being - guess why? It's not because of nostalgia, it's because true boxing heads don't analyse greatness in a simplistic way that you do, running to semantics when it suits you.
Beating a 147lb version of Duran in that manner, is astonishing. Yes, to me Duran wasn't in prime condition, but this isn't Marquez.

lol at that description. Duran the swashbuckler. You just admitted that people rate him for reasons other than accomplishment.

7. You favour stats but cite 'quality of opposition' - lol are you not getting it?
Beating one of the best ever is greater than beating two 'good' names because multiple fighters can beat 'good names' if they're very good, but virtually none of these 'multiple' fighters can beat one of the very best ever. That's a logic you need to understand in these discussions.

I don't agree that it is. Floyd dominated when Leonard was getting wrecked by Camacho. He beat more ranked fighters. Held more titles. etc. Pretty much every way to gauge greatness aside from the Duranomometer, Floyd has him beat.

 

[Sunfish]

Stop throwing out names from before anyone had film. You can't argue it so it's pointless.

Mayweather is the greatest fighter since Leonard. Sugar Ray, not Benny either.

He's also the greatest fighter below welteright since Duran. Those are two names I'd put above Mayweather.

All of those other newspaper decision fighters can sit on their own list.

Lol, tam you aren't going to get sensible answers, you'll get stupid answers from people looking at boxrec.

I would try and put a ten together but it's more fun watching people make a fool of themselves. I can get to about 8 without making a fool of myself, beyond that, not so much.

 

[Sunfish]

Sorry, I don't think Clinton woods or kubrat Pulev went 50-0

 

[10000 Days]

Question: Is Joe Calzaghe in anybody's top 15 all-time list?

 

[Hagler]

Question: Is Joe Calzaghe in anybody's top 15 all-time list?

Mostly among his relatives.

 

[10000 Days]

Mostly among his relatives.

 

[XThe GreatestX]

Question: Is Joe Calzaghe in anybody's top 15 all-time list?

No

 

[tekkennlee]

Many people on here are not rating him high cause they are making excuses about his opponents using age or green when they will give credit to other fighters that they love that have fought these same fighters and beat them at close to same age and those so called older champions beat young Monster prim fighters and were themselves still champions at the time Mayweather beat them.

But Floyd didn't just beat them he made it look easy no matter if they where younger when he fought them, That outcome would of been worse for them cause his hands would of been better and he would of tried to stop them and that's what people forget .

People seem to forget he was old himself he wasn't prime when he beat Mosley Pac and others .

Now lets get to why he is the Best ever. Pound for Pound

Its Ring IQ Skill, Mayweather is the smartest most adaptable fighter in the history of boxing his ring IQ is off the charts.

Mayweather is not the fastest strongest the hardest puncher at all even many boxers he went up against where faster stronger and punched harder.

We come back to Ring IQ. hes a defensive master counter puncher that can fight you inside outside and can use his legs. He could stand right in the pocket and make you miss every punch, then hit you 8 times and them move out of the way. He could dance and box you like Ali for 12 rounds . He could fight you toe to toe and still make you miss 99% of your punches you would be hitting arms and shoulders. He could take you totally out of your game and he wont get tired. that's how good he is and you never see fighters that can do it all never.

He can basically fight you fighting like James Tony, Roy Jones, Ali, Sugar Ray, Pernnell Whitaker. and many more fighters I could name.

Hes the only fighter i have ever seen that can beat any style of boxing and make it look easy.

Most champions lose to or look real bad going up against some of the other styles of boxing.

May weather fought every style invented inside pressure fighters Coralles , Costillo twice, Ricky Hatton ,Maidana and beat them not only were these guys good but champions and had a hard style for a boxer to beat.

Mayweather beat boxers counter punchers Mosley, Canelo, Cotto Marquez . and others, all champions ajusting to them if needed and then making it look easy.

Mayweather beat southpaws Pac, Zab Judah, V. Ortiz and others all champions adjusting to them then making it look easy.

Mayweather can adapt to any fighting style invented cause of ring IQ you would see him hurt and he would adapt and after he adjusted make it look easy.

He is pound for pound the best boxer ring IQ wise in the history of the sport because he could use it and adapt to any style and make it look flawless doing it. Hes the only fighter that i have ever seen be able to do this in all of the history of the sport. when other fighters had flaws he had none he even had a solid Chin.

 

[tekkennlee]

All other fighters named on here that people say are better had huge flaws going up against other styles or conditioning or low ring IQ or couldn't re-adjust to adjustments being made by other trainers.

Hell all Mayweathers trainers told him was keep doing what you are doing. he made the adjustments himself. He adjusted to every adjustment and trouble and style he got dealt with.

Roy jones low ring IQ got by with Superhuman reflexes speed dad was his trainer. when his reflexes speed started to leave got caught and knocked out couldn't adjust to losing reflexes low ring IQ. Roy Jones Jr had absolutely NO jab and the ones he did throw he wasn't trying to land poor defense.

Sugar ray L. couldn't fight on the inside lost to Duran cause of it, no way in hell he fights Hagler on the inside had to box him to get a close win.

James tony had trouble with boxer movers like Roy and M. Nun and was lazy. lost to Roy and others cause of it slow feet . Food 200 pound quarterback in high school.

Chavez only had one style couldn't change his style to adjust to boxers only used attrition to were boxers down and beat them. when he couldn't were them down lost to good boxers movers . Low ring IQ.

Pernnel had trouble against stronger taller fighters fighting in the pocket. When he couldn't use his legs. Trinidad. But Sweet-pee was on Cocain at the time.

Hearns had trouble with conditioning and inside fighters and boxers. Lenard went on the inside with him beat him cause Hearns got tired

Hagler had trouble with boxers movers with a higher ring IQ.

Sugar Ray R. had flaws with his hands down pulling back slipping punches that's how he go knocked out and he didn't like when fighters took away his movement .

Duran had trouble with boxer movers that's how Lenard beat him. low ring IQ.

Joe Louis had trouble with boxer movers lost to Wallcot cause of this.

Ali had trouble with inside pressure fighters that took his legs away . Norton Frazier, Left hooks.

G. Foreman low ring IQ conditioning couldn't box when needed.

 

[XThe GreatestX]

All other fighters named on here that people say are better had huge flaws going up against other styles or conditioning or low ring IQ or couldn't re-adjust to adjustments being made by other trainers.

Hell all Mayweathers trainers told him was keep doing what you are doing. he made the adjustments himself. He adjusted to every adjustment and trouble and style he got dealt with.

Roy jones low ring IQ got by with Superhuman reflexes speed dad was his trainer. when his reflexes speed started to leave got caught and knocked out couldn't adjust to losing reflexes low ring IQ. Roy Jones Jr had absolutely NO jab and the ones he did throw he wasn't trying to land poor defense.

Sugar ray L. couldn't fight on the inside lost to Duran cause of it, no way in hell he fights Hagler on the inside had to box him to get a close win.

James tony had trouble with boxer movers like Roy and M. Nun and was lazy. lost to Roy and others cause of it slow feet . Food 200 pound quarterback in high school.

Chavez only had one style couldn't change his style to adjust to boxers only used attrition to were boxers down and beat them. when he couldn't were them down lost to good boxers movers . Low ring IQ.

Pernnel had trouble against stronger taller fighters fighting in the pocket. When he couldn't use his legs. Trinidad. But Sweet-pee was on Cocain at the time.

Hearns had trouble with conditioning and inside fighters and boxers. Lenard went on the inside with him beat him cause Hearns got tired

Hagler had trouble with boxers movers with a higher ring IQ.

Sugar Ray R. had flaws with his hands down pulling back slipping punches that's how he go knocked out and he didn't like when fighters took away his movement .

Duran had trouble with boxer movers that's how Lenard beat him. low ring IQ.

Joe Louis had trouble with boxer movers lost to Wallcot cause of this.

Ali had trouble with inside pressure fighters that took his legs away . Norton Frazier, Left hooks.

G. Foreman low ring IQ conditioning couldn't box when needed.

A lot of these you have just made up. But if we want to do one for Floyd we can .

Floyd had trouble with inside pressure fighters, who threw a lot of punches and worked a lot to the body

Every fighter has flaws. Floyd is no different

 

[breadfighter]

Floyds a can crusher.

 

[tekkennlee]

A lot of these you have just made up. But if we want to do one for Floyd we can .

Floyd had trouble with inside pressure fighters, who threw a lot of punches and worked a lot to the body

Every fighter has flaws. Floyd is no different

But Floyd could adjust to them and most of them were hitting just shoulders arms when he was on the ropes he would use the shoulder roll and most of those fights were wen he was young still learning or didn't fear the power of Nadu and other fighters at those weights. Like when he fought Chop Chop and it was strategy to get fighters to punch themselves out and get their timing. Then start his attack and counter them he was doing this to Costillo, Nadu, Chop Chop. Costillo he was hitting Floyd on the shoulders and arms.

He did this to Hatton to tier him out and then went on the attack body shots, strait rights and check hooks timing him then the KO.

Maidana tried this but he was missing Floyd or hitting him low or on the top of the head or back of the head arms and shoulders. Floyd tired him out and then attacked him boxing him.

But Floyd could fight you off the ropes. Watch Cotto fight

Floyd would use his elbow if you tried to head but him hold and hit him.

The main thing is Floyd adjusted and made adjustments to every style and won the fight by making the right adjustments, that's the point i was trying to make.

They say Duran beats Floyd but they fail to realize he couldn't cut the ring off against, Lenard when he boxed him what makes you think he could cut the ring off against Floyd when he can move and box the same way as Lenard and fight on the inside and off the ropes.

When he wanted to he could use his legs, but people forget Coralles.

Its ring IQ strategy adjustments setting traps foot placement, body placement, head placement a slight head movement makes all the difference, angles. If he needed to, movement counter punching sliding off the ropes.

I never said Floyd didn't have some trouble in some fights, if he did he would make adjustments and still win and sometimes make it look easy, but most of the time made it look easy.

When other fighters would lose hope or get frustrated and quit or give up trying, run out of gas or couldn't adjust to them.

 

[Sunfish]

Floyds a can crusher.

You dksab fuckface.

 

[breadfighter]

You dksab fuckface.

Your mom dksdab.

 

[Hagler]

You dksab fuckface.

Your mom dksdab.

Maybe both dksab.

 

[Sunfish]

Maybe both dksab.

My mom definitely dksab. What's his excuse?

 

[10000 Days]

^
damn!