$5 billion for Border Wall?

[Ortegoat]

Nope

And Mexico isn't paying for it. You guys got cucked.

Deal with it bro, I know it’s hard

 

[PainIsLIfe]

what?

enforce laws that say you cannot hire illegals. then the magnet that draws illegals here will disappear. the wall is not needed. the wall is a physical monument to pandering.

This is the truth. We already know where most of these people work but the SSA isn't allowed to tell the IRS that those are bogus ss#.

It's just a game we play. On the positive side they pay into social security and can't claim any of it so in a way they are suporting our social safety net.

 

[ObamaPhoneLady]

If we don’t know how many there are how do we know that enough are claiming benefits to make a $5 billion spend worthwhile?

Well this article claims they cost the US over 100 Billion annually. And that's just the 12.5 million we know about.

 

[ObamaPhoneLady]

Why not do both? Build the wall AND target employers hiring illegals.

Because they're being disingenous. Liberals want as many illegals as possible in the hopes they will breed more Democrats.

 

[D3thr0n3d K1ng]

Yeah, its not supposed to stop an invading military force. And really? the Berlin wall?? Last time I checked one was effective. The wall around Israel seems to be doing just fine as well.

Like I said, if employers still wanna hire Mexicans it won't stop zhit. Also the cartels on the northern border are wealthy if they wanna go through it nothing stopping them either. It will just be a colossal waste of money to placate idiots like you and the right wing business owners will still bring people over.

 

[gassius_clay]

Like I said, if employers still wanna hire Mexicans it won't stop zhit. Also the cartels on the northern border are wealthy if they wanna go through it nothing stopping them either. It will just be a colossal waste of money to placate idiots like you and the right wing business owners will still bring people over.

Lol yeah its right-winger business owners faults

Perhaps goof ball left-winger progressive retards like you need to stop telling these people its okay to break the law. After all this is the new democratic voting base.

Make sure to reference some more instances where a wall didn't stop an invading army centuries ago. That the exact same scenario we're dealing with right now

 

[JonnyRingo84]

Why not do both? Build the wall AND target employers hiring illegals.

imo, if we do the latter, then the former is just a waste of money. we can always try and reassess before we spend billions. ongoing billions btw. maintenance and staffing (staffing already being difficult due to low pop. at border).

 

[oleDirtyBast4rd]

imo, if we do the latter, then the former is just a waste of money. we can always try and reassess before we spend billions. ongoing billions btw. maintenance and staffing (staffing already being difficult due to low pop. at border).

I fail to see how a border wall is a waste of money. Do you believe slowing illegal immigration and drug trafficking is the only purpose of a border wall? Do you believe the wall would have no impact?

You're just like the people crying about debt, and then when I propose a 10% cut across the board, suddenly dig in their heels with spending as long as it's their side doing it.

 

[computer fogie]

Why don't we just hire illegal Mexicans to build the wall? At the wages they get, that $5 billion will build a lot more wall than if Americans build it.

 

[JonnyRingo84]

I fail to see how a border wall is a waste of money. Do you believe slowing illegal immigration and drug trafficking is the only purpose of a border wall? Do you believe the wall would have no impact?

to me, it just seems more trouble than its worth in so many ways. i also suspect that many of our leaders want the wall more for identity politics, than they do as a real immigration strategy.

You're just like the people crying about debt, and then when I propose a 10% cut across the board, suddenly dig in their heels with spending as long as it's their side doing it.

how am i like that?

 

[Prutfis]

But I thought Mexico was going to pay for it?

 

[woodguyatl]

Well this article claims they cost the US over 100 Billion annually. And that's just the 12.5 million we know about.

The 12.5 million is actually the high end of conservative estimates. Most other estimates put the number at 10-11 million.

The $100 billion number is from a FAIR report in 2017 where they included 16 million people, 4 million of which are US citizens (American born children of illegal immigrants.) There are a number of other flaws in how they came up with the number.

Other studies put the net cost of illegal immigration at $5 to $15 billion in the short run but those tend to run a but optimistic I think.

An interesting aside is that the children (who are citizens) of illegal immigrants pay more taxes, on average, than the children of US citizens because they are both more likely to employed and less likely to to use government benefits.

 

[ObamaPhoneLady]

The 12.5 million is actually the high end of conservative estimates. Most other estimates put the number at 10-11 million.

The $100 billion number is from a FAIR report in 2017 where they included 16 million people, 4 million of which are US citizens (American born children of illegal immigrants.) There are a number of other flaws in how they came up with the number.

Other studies put the net cost of illegal immigration at $5 to $15 billion in the short run but those tend to run a but optimistic I think.

An interesting aside is that the children (who are citizens) of illegal immigrants pay more taxes, on average, than the children of US citizens because they are both more likely to employed and less likely to to use government benefits.

So am I the only one required to cite sources or...

 

[woodguyatl]

So am I the only one required to cite sources or...

Regarding $100 Billion. Here is a link to the "FAIR Report"
https://fairus.org/press-releases/illegal-immigration-113-billion-year-drain-us-taxpayers

Note that $52 billion is for education of children of illegal immigrants. Education is almost exclusively paid for through property taxes which illegal immigrants pay either directly through owning property or indirectly through the property owners from whom they rent.

Here is a fact-check analysis of that report.

https://www.azcentral.com/story/new...documented-immigrants-cost-economy/691997002/

"In addition to those groups, FAIR included in their cost estimates the nearly 4.2 million U.S. citizens who are the children of undocumented immigrants. By adding the citizen children to their undocumented population estimate of 12.5 million, FAIR looked at the total cost of roughly 16.7 million people."

Here is a the CATO analysis of that report which offers the lower numbers I cited. Note that I think they erred on the low side.

https://www.cato.org/blog/fairs-fiscal-burden-illegal-immigration-study-fatally-flawed

Here is an interesting look at the fact that immigrants and their children use less welfare than people who have been in the US for 3 generation or more.

https://www.cato.org/blog/immigrant...ess-welfare-third-higher-generation-americans

Here is the National Academy of Science Report showing that the adult children of immigrants pay more taxes than most other people.

https://www.nap.edu/catalog/23550/the-economic-and-fiscal-consequences-of-immigration

You have to buy the actual report but here is an article that summarizes some of the key point.

http://www.governing.com/topics/finance/gov-new-research-immigrants-good-for-economy.html

 

[ObamaPhoneLady]

Regarding $100 Billion. Here is a link to the "FAIR Report"
https://fairus.org/press-releases/illegal-immigration-113-billion-year-drain-us-taxpayers

Note that $52 billion is for education of children of illegal immigrants. Education is almost exclusively paid for through property taxes which illegal immigrants pay either directly through owning property or indirectly through the property owners from whom they rent.

Here is a fact-check analysis of that report.

https://www.azcentral.com/story/new...documented-immigrants-cost-economy/691997002/

"In addition to those groups, FAIR included in their cost estimates the nearly 4.2 million U.S. citizens who are the children of undocumented immigrants. By adding the citizen children to their undocumented population estimate of 12.5 million, FAIR looked at the total cost of roughly 16.7 million people."

Here is a the CATO analysis of that report which offers the lower numbers I cited. Note that I think they erred on the low side.

https://www.cato.org/blog/fairs-fiscal-burden-illegal-immigration-study-fatally-flawed

Here is an interesting look at the fact that immigrants and their children use less welfare than people who have been in the US for 3 generation or more.

https://www.cato.org/blog/immigrant...ess-welfare-third-higher-generation-americans

Here is the National Academy of Science Report showing that the adult children of immigrants pay more taxes than most other people.

https://www.nap.edu/catalog/23550/the-economic-and-fiscal-consequences-of-immigration

You have to buy the actual report but here is an article that summarizes some of the key point.

http://www.governing.com/topics/finance/gov-new-research-immigrants-good-for-economy.html

So in the long run a $5B wall would save money. Good to know.

 

[SaiWa]

So in the long run a $5B wall would save money. Good to know.

so what you should have gotten from that is that illegal immigrants are an overall benefit to us citizens. They generally pay their fair share considering they receive few of those benefits.

 

[*Z*]

5 billion isn't even close to what they need to complete a wall. Either it's going to be a fence or they are just doing this to try to regain some voters they likely lost.

 

[ObamaPhoneLady]

so what you should have gotten from that is that illegal immigrants are an overall benefit to us citizens. They generally pay their fair share considering they receive few of those benefits.

Well except for all the crime.

 

[woodguyatl]

5 billion isn't even close to what they need to complete a wall. Either it's going to be a fence or they are just doing this to try to regain some voters they likely lost.

On what evidence do you base that statement? How much immigration will a $5 billion dollar wall stop.

Note that about 40% of all illegal immigrants entered the country legally and overstated their visas. So the wall will have no impact on that.

https://www.factcheck.org/2018/06/illegal-immigration-statistics/

If Trump wanted $20 billion last time we might assume he is only getting 25% of the wall he wanted. Does that mean that immigration will be reduced by 25% at the Mexican border meaning a net 10% reduction in immigration due to the wall?

This numbers start to look iffy because you can only the cost savings as the result of a 10% reduction in future immigration, not those already here.

 

[SaiWa]

Well except for all the crime.

based on percentage of population illegal immigrants over 50% less likely to commit crimes.

glad I was able to educate you. you are welcome.