395 metabolic ward experiments show dietary cholesterol raises blood cholesterol

[Tycho- Taylor's Version]

you talkin about the paper in the OP right?

you click on the link, and to the right there are two links under "Full text links"

He meant to say "will not look at" the methods.

This thread is why we can't have science in Mayberry anymore.

 

[BJ@LW&WW]

He meant to say "will not look at" the methods.

This thread is why we can't have science in Mayberry anymore.

didnt wanna say it, but anyone who doesnt know how to navigate an ncbi page has never read a scientific paper before.

 

[cincymma79]

 

[Midnighter]

didnt wanna say it, but anyone who doesnt know how to navigate an ncbi page has never read a scientific paper before.

They're the lucky ones.

 

[Madmick]

https://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/08/06/advice-from-a-vegan-cardiologist/

Literally "advice from a vegan cardiologist".

Just stop it with these threads. You're a hack layman abusing science in the worst possible fashion. You're a political vegan, and THAT is your driving motive; not to seek the best dietary nutritional guidelines, but to plunder whatever you can to support your confirmation bias in a disingenuous effort to get us to embrace your political ideology based on an argument for our health...but you don't care about our health.

Because of this everybody knows that you're not a trustworthy source to become better informed, and you are rightly dismissed out of hand. Listening to your feeble denials of our omnivorous evolutionary roots is as bad as listening to Steven Crowder pontificate about environmental science and global warming.

 

[Der Eisbär]

Literally "advice from a vegan cardiologist".

Just stop it with these threads. You're a hack layman abusing science in the worst possible fashion. You're a political vegan, and THAT is your driving motive; not to seek the best dietary nutritional guidelines, but to plunder whatever you can to support your confirmation bias in a disingenuous effort to get us to embrace your political ideology based on an argument for our health...but you don't care about our health.

Because of this everybody knows that you're not a trustworthy source to become better informed, and you are rightly dismissed out of hand. Listening to your feeble denials of our omnivorous evolutionary roots is as bad as listening to Steven Crowder pontificate about environmental science and global warming.

There is a massive wealth of evidence supporting the fact that veganism is the healthiest diet, I've posted a GREAT DEAL of information supporting that position. You're too conditioned by society to question such a massive tradition and sector of the economy. The number of doctors, cardiologists and organizations supporting a vegan diet are huge and growing every year. You literally just have 0 clue what you're talking about, or who you're talking to.

Here, Madmick, is the largest professional organization of dietitians not a legitimate authority on the health benefits? Do you know more than the agency that accredits nutritionists?
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19562864

It is the position of the American Dietetic Association that appropriately planned vegetarian diets, including total vegetarian or vegan diets, are healthful, nutritionally adequate, and may provide health benefits in the prevention and treatment of certain diseases. Well-planned vegetarian diets are appropriate for individuals during all stages of the life cycle, including pregnancy, lactation, infancy, childhood, and adolescence, and for athletes. A vegetarian diet is defined as one that does not include meat (including fowl) or seafood, or products containing those foods. This article reviews the current data related to key nutrients for vegetarians including protein, n-3 fatty acids, iron, zinc, iodine, calcium, and vitamins D and B-12. A vegetarian diet can meet current recommendations for all of these nutrients. In some cases, supplements or fortified foods can provide useful amounts of important nutrients. An evidence- based review showed that vegetarian diets can be nutritionally adequate in pregnancy and result in positive maternal and infant health outcomes. The results of an evidence-based review showed that a vegetarian diet is associated with a lower risk of death from ischemic heart disease. Vegetarians also appear to have lower low-density lipoprotein cholesterol levels, lower blood pressure, and lower rates of hypertension and type 2 diabetes than nonvegetarians. Furthermore, vegetarians tend to have a lower body mass index and lower overall cancer rates. Features of a vegetarian diet that may reduce risk of chronic disease include lower intakes of saturated fat and cholesterol and higher intakes of fruits, vegetables, whole grains, nuts, soy products, fiber, and phytochemicals

No, you obviously aren't more credible than the academy of nutrition and dietetics and you don't know more than they do. You're just yammering on because you're mad that the WHO and UN have listed red meat and processed meat including bacon as class 1 and 2 carcinogens. Cry me a fucking river. Either debate the facts and the studies or piss off. These appeals to "muh political veganism" are retarded.

Oh hey bud, look at this, vegans are the longest living dietary group with the lowest rates of cancer and disease, HUUURRRRR DURRRRRR "MUH POLITICAL VEGANISM"
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4191896/

 

[PubliusVentidius]

Literally "advice from a vegan cardiologist".

Just stop it with these threads. You're a hack layman abusing science in the worst possible fashion. You're a political vegan, and THAT is your driving motive; not to seek the best dietary nutritional guidelines, but to plunder whatever you can to support your confirmation bias in a disingenuous effort to get us to embrace your political ideology based on an argument for our health...but you don't care about our health.

Because of this everybody knows that you're not a trustworthy source to become better informed, and you are rightly dismissed out of hand. Listening to your feeble denials of our omnivorous evolutionary roots is as bad as listening to Steven Crowder pontificate about environmental science and global warming.

First of all he only went vegan in 2003 and he's in his 60s, if he's advocating a vegan diet it's because of the evidence that it's indeed the best diet to follow for your heart health, not because he's in some shadowy cabal that want to convince others to go vegan just out of tribalism. This is like being pissed finding out that your oncologist doesn't smoke.

This is where he explains why he went vegan btw: https://www.medpagetoday.com/Cardiology/Prevention/46860 ;

''Physicians want to influence their patients to make lifestyle changes that will improve their health, but sometimes the roles are reversed and we are inspired by patients. It was a patient's success reversing an alarming condition that motivated me to investigate a vegan diet.

Just before the American College of Cardiology's (ACC) annual meeting in 2003 I learned that my LDL cholesterol level was 170. It was clear that I needed to change something. Six months earlier, I had read a nuclear scan on a patient with very-high-risk findings -- a severe three-vessel disease pattern of reversible ischemia.

The patient came back to the nuclear lab just before that 2003 ACC meeting. She had been following Dean Ornish, MD's program for "Reversing Heart Disease," which includes a plant-based diet, exercise, and meditation. She said that her chest pain had resolved in about 6 weeks, and her scan had become essentially normalized on this program.

When I got that LDL result, I looked up the details of the plant-based diet in Ornish's publications -- 1- and 5-year angiographic outcomes and marked improvement on PET perfusion scanning -- small numbers of patients, but outcomes that reached statistical significance.

I thought I had a healthy diet -- no red meat, no fried foods, little dairy, just chicken breast and fish. But a simple Web search informed me that my chicken-breast meals had more cholesterol content (84 mg/100 g) than pork (62 mg/100 g). So I changed that day to a cholesterol-free diet, using "meat substitutes" commonly available in stores and restaurants for protein. Within 6 weeks my LDL cholesterol level was down to 90.''

 

[AnGrYcRoW]

In other words: We took people already eating a modern diet high in cholesterol, fed them cholesterol and oh look at that! No change in cholesterol detected.

Meta analysis of 395 studies showing a link > your One study where baseline cholesterol and ascvd risk were not assessed

Funny I watched a vid yesterday where they outed that trick

 

[AnGrYcRoW]

So do I eat the fucking egg yolks or not?

Don't eat eggs period

 

[AnGrYcRoW]

To my knowledge heart disease is still #1 in America.

It looks like Cancer is #2 according to the CDC.

Here's a great lecture tying the 15 leading causes of death to animal product consumption via published research.

Dr Gregor is a great resource

 

[Der Eisbär]

Funny I watched a vid yesterday where they outed that trick

a favorite trick by studies funded by the meat and dairy industries

 

[AnGrYcRoW]

a favorite trick by studies funded by the meat and dairy industries

Choose the right control group you can get any result you like

 

[cincymma79]

 

[Cool Hand Luke]

*veganitis

 

[Madmick]

First of all he only went vegan in 2003 and he's in his 60s, if he's advocating a vegan diet it's because of the evidence that it's indeed the best diet to follow for your heart health, not because he's in some shadowy cabal that want to convince others to go vegan just out of tribalism. This is like being pissed finding out that your oncologist doesn't smoke.

This is where he explains why he went vegan btw: https://www.medpagetoday.com/Cardiology/Prevention/46860 ;

''Physicians want to influence their patients to make lifestyle changes that will improve their health, but sometimes the roles are reversed and we are inspired by patients. It was a patient's success reversing an alarming condition that motivated me to investigate a vegan diet.

Just before the American College of Cardiology's (ACC) annual meeting in 2003 I learned that my LDL cholesterol level was 170. It was clear that I needed to change something. Six months earlier, I had read a nuclear scan on a patient with very-high-risk findings -- a severe three-vessel disease pattern of reversible ischemia.

The patient came back to the nuclear lab just before that 2003 ACC meeting. She had been following Dean Ornish, MD's program for "Reversing Heart Disease," which includes a plant-based diet, exercise, and meditation. She said that her chest pain had resolved in about 6 weeks, and her scan had become essentially normalized on this program.

When I got that LDL result, I looked up the details of the plant-based diet in Ornish's publications -- 1- and 5-year angiographic outcomes and marked improvement on PET perfusion scanning -- small numbers of patients, but outcomes that reached statistical significance.

I thought I had a healthy diet -- no red meat, no fried foods, little dairy, just chicken breast and fish. But a simple Web search informed me that my chicken-breast meals had more cholesterol content (84 mg/100 g) than pork (62 mg/100 g). So I changed that day to a cholesterol-free diet, using "meat substitutes" commonly available in stores and restaurants for protein. Within 6 weeks my LDL cholesterol level was down to 90.''

First, this is irrelevant to my point that he has embraced the writings of a personal subscriber as an anecdote. Second, this is exactly the point.

A plant-based diet is most sensible for older people, especially men, who may already have cardiovascular problems, or high risk factors. Look at Bill Clinton. He's not a perfect vegan, but that's essentially what he embraced when the doctors finally told him in stark terms over a decade ago, "Mr. President, if you don't change your diet, you are probably going to die young." That's fine.

I'm not interested in tedious PubMed nutritional debates in the Berry. If I wanted that I would wade back into D&S from whence I originally came. Eisbar doesn't go there because this isn't about nutrition or health to him, and because those guys are more than willing spend all day pointing out all of the iceberg he doesn't want you to see. I believe he tried for years, and got tired of getting chewed up. That's why he comes here. It's about politics.

Here's the Cliff Notes:


Heart 411: The Only Guide to Heart Health You'll Ever Need

For any guys who want to learn the boring traditional science-- the medical community's lagging but established consensus-- there is no more succinct or reliable source. Nutrition isn't the sole focus. This is written by two of the top cardiovascular surgeons at the #1 Cardiology department in the world.

 

[Der Eisbär]

First, this is irrelevant to my point that he has embraced the writings of a personal subscriber as an anecdote. Second, this is exactly the point.

A plant-based diet is most sensible for older people, especially men, who may already have cardiovascular problems, or high risk factors. Look at Bill Clinton. He's not a perfect vegan, but that's essentially what he embraced when the doctors finally told him in stark terms over a decade ago, "Mr. President, if you don't change your diet, you are probably going to die young." That's fine.

I'm not interested in tedious PubMed nutritional debates in the Berry. If I wanted that I would wade back into D&S from whence I originally came. Eisbar doesn't go there because this isn't about nutrition or health to him, and because those guys are more than willing spend all day pointing out all of the iceberg he doesn't want you to see. I believe he tried for years, and got tired of getting chewed up. That's why he comes here. It's about politics.

Here's the Cliff Notes:


Heart 411: The Only Guide to Heart Health You'll Ever Need

For any guys who want to learn the boring traditional science-- the medical community's lagging but established consensus-- there is no more succinct or reliable source. Nutrition isn't the sole focus. This is written by two of the top cardiovascular surgeons at the #1 Cardiology department in the world.

I love how you get to decide for me why I'm vegan and why I promote it. I promote it because it's a win win win: better for health, better for the environment, and better for the animals. You don't get to tell me why I'm a vegan you ass. The scientific consensus is that dietary cholesterol and saturated fat elevated blood lipids and cause heart disease.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saturated_fat_and_cardiovascular_disease

Most medical, scientific, heart-health, governmental, and professional authorities agree that saturated fat is a significant risk factor for cardiovascular disease, including the World Health Organization,[
the Food and Nutrition Board of the National Academy of Medicine,[2] the American Dietetic Association,[3] the Dietitians of Canada,[3] the British Dietetic Association,[4] American Heart Association,[5] the British Heart Foundation,[6] the Heart and Stroke Foundation of Canada,[7] the World Heart Federation,[8] the British National Health Service,[9] the United States Food and Drug Administration,[10] and the European Food Safety Authority.[11] All of these organizations recommend restricting consumption of saturated fats to reduce that risk.

However, some meta-analyses of clinical trials and cohort studies have provided evidence against the recommendation for reduced intake of saturated fat,[12][13][14][15][16] and some health journalists,[17] scientists,[18] and one trade association[19] continue to reject the recommendation to reduce consumption of saturated fat.

See, you and your position are in the minority as nearly all major authorities and organizations on the subject support the lipid hypothesis and the reduction of saturated fat and cholesterol in the diet. No amount of sticking your head in the sand changes these facts.

https://academic.oup.com/eurheartj/article/38/32/2459/3745109

Separate meta-analyses of over 200 prospective cohort studies, Mendelian randomization studies, and randomized trials including more than 2 million participants with over 20 million person-years of follow-up and over 150 000 cardiovascular events demonstrate a remarkably consistent dose-dependent log-linear association between the absolute magnitude of exposure of the vasculature to LDL-C and the risk of ASCVD;


MUH SCIENCE DENIALISM
MUH POLITICAL VEGANISM

 

[MoparOrNoCar]

This is like Teixeira vs. Maldonado

Eisbar is showing a ton of heart but only standing because the cage is holding him up. The end is near.

 

[Der Eisbär]

This is like Teixeira vs. Maldonado

Eisbar is showing a ton of heart but only standing because the cage is holding him up. The end is near.

Perceptions are a funny thing. In mine, posting a book as your source from 2 random cardiologists and denying the scientific consensus is the equivalent of getting battered against the cage.

 

[Der Eisbär]

Yeah, that fat internet moron is a great source for science.

Here's a thorough breakdown of how he's wrong on almost everything he says -