Will BJJ eventually devolve into a TMA?

[chamcham]

UFC was originally owned and run by the Gracie family in the beginning up until it was sold to the Ferritas Brothers.

The original UFC tournaments were basically advertisements for Gracie BJJ. But i do recall Rickson Gracie’s discontent some years ago with BJJ moving from a self-defense focus to a sport focus.

We all know how IBJJF and Mundials are.
If the BJJ becomes more of a sport with rules that lead to jiu jitsu that is less effective for self defense, will BJJ eventually turn into a TMA?

Could we potentially come full circle? The Gracies proved that many TMA styles don’t work for real self-defense. But then what if BJJ eventually becomes a TMA itself due to growing BJJ sport.

Or will BJJ splinter into 2 different styles: one for sport and one for self-defense (similar to the difference between Sambo and Combat Sambo)?

 

[dirtroller]

Sport vs Self defense is not the problem. The problem with TMA is that it isn’t practiced regularly against opponents that are resisting.

 

[THEfightsAREfixed]

no, no , no

 

[Megatronlee]

I get what you’re saying, bjj already had that issue and still is going through it. But those who know. KNOW

 

[dirtroller]

Just look at Judo. The heavy emphasis on live sport competition is what keeps it from devolving into techniques that don’t actually work against an opponent with a pulse.

 

[blaseblah]

No, because any legit martial art involves sparring and the main issue with TMAs is that they are non contact and don't involve real sparring. I can't envision a future in which BJJ schools collectively cease sparring.

 

[Schmubby Schmecker]

Sport vs Self defense is not the problem. The problem with TMA is that it isn’t practiced regularly against opponents that are resisting.

What about Tae Kwon Do and Karate?

 

[dirtroller]

What about Tae Kwon Do and Karate?

Most of the TKD and Karate schools I’ve been to spend most of their time on Kata and unrealistic self defense techniques that never get applied in live sparring.

 

[Kinosis]

It basically already has.

 

[dirtroller]

I would like to see the rules tweaked to discourage guard pulling and butt scooting. Score a takedown like in wrestling and pulling guard should count as a takedown for your opponent.

 

[randomg1t]

It basically already has.

join a gym and roll with a blue belt, then come back here and tell me how it's a TMA.

they will twist you into a pretzel.

 

[Pierced7681]

join a gym and roll with a blue belt, then come back here and tell me how it's a TMA.

they will twist you into a pretzel.

What if they roll with a Royce Gracie blue belt?

 

[Milton_Gracie]

UFC was originally owned and run by the Gracie family in the beginning up until it was sold to the Ferritas Brothers.

The original UFC tournaments were basically advertisements for Gracie BJJ. But i do recall Rickson Gracie’s discontent some years ago with BJJ moving from a self-defense focus to a sport focus.

We all know how IBJJF and Mundials are.
If the BJJ becomes more of a sport with rules that lead to jiu jitsu that is less effective for self defense, will BJJ eventually turn into a TMA?

Could we potentially come full circle? The Gracies proved that many TMA styles don’t work for real self-defense. But then what if BJJ eventually becomes a TMA itself due to growing BJJ sport.

Or will BJJ splinter into 2 different styles: one for sport and one for self-defense (similar to the difference between Sambo and Combat Sambo)?

Hmmm...

All martial arts, regardless of effectiveness are TMA.

It is only when one liberates onself from the doctrines and crystallizations of style, that they become free of the burden of being a Traditional Martial Artist and truly become a student of JKD, a martial philosophy based on shattering the conventions of being a TMA’ist. But once you become a JKD’ist, you now become a TMA’ist and the circle and cycle continues

 

[superpunch]

No, because any legit martial art involves sparring and the main issue with TMAs is that they are non contact and don't involve real sparring. I can't envision a future in which BJJ schools collectively cease sparring.

Sport vs Self defense is not the problem. The problem with TMA is that it isn’t practiced regularly against opponents that are resisting.

TKD has sparring and is practiced regularly against resisting opponents. TKD still sucks.

Point karate has sparring and is practiced regularly against resisting opponents. It still sucks.

Both of them suck because they have unrealistic rulesets.

BJJ is going down that same classic TMA path of being completely unrealistic. As the sport of MMA has evolved, BJJ's lack of athleticism and complete lack of dynamic movement, takedowns, and TDD has resulted in wrestling becoming the predominant grappling art by a huge margin.

BJJ's ruleset promotes guys that pull guard, play from the bottom, look for too many submissions, completely lack athleticism, etc. That's a bad ruleset because all those things get you demolished as soon as the ruleset incorporates more realistic things like punching, scrambles, more takedowns, etc. Wrestling's ruleset and especially sambo encourage you to get into better positions for these things and get out of positions that put you into bad positions for them.

 

[Spath]

Sport vs Self defense is not the problem. The problem with TMA is that it isn’t practiced regularly against opponents that are resisting.

And one of the best things in BJJ is exactly that very quickly and often you get to practice against opponents that are resisting!

 

[Beastos]

Rickson is delusional a competitive purple belt would smash a black belt of 10 years ago . I've been training for 12 years so I know how much BJJ has evolved .

 

[Milton_Gracie]

TKD has sparring and is practiced regularly against resisting opponents. TKD still sucks.

Point karate has sparring and is practiced regularly against resisting opponents. It still sucks.

Both of them suck because they have unrealistic rulesets.

BJJ is going down that same classic TMA path of being completely unrealistic. As the sport of MMA has evolved, BJJ's lack of athleticism and complete lack of dynamic movement, takedowns, and TDD has resulted in wrestling becoming the predominant grappling art by a huge margin.

BJJ's ruleset promotes guys that pull guard, play from the bottom, look for too many submissions, completely lack athleticism, etc. That's a bad ruleset because all those things get you demolished as soon as the ruleset incorporates more realistic things like punching, scrambles, more takedowns, etc. Wrestling's ruleset and especially sambo encourage you to get into better positions for these things and get out of positions that put you into bad positions for them.

TMA is the stuff we enroll kids in to become responsible and disciplined members of the community.

Non TMA is stuff fantasy fighters like you and I enroll in because we have enough time to spend on the internets talking shit about other arts because you and I obviously aren’t training for a PPV event for Dana

 

[Spath]

BJJ's ruleset promotes guys that pull guard, play from the bottom, look for too many submissions, completely lack athleticism, etc. That's a bad ruleset because all those things get you demolished as soon as the ruleset incorporates more realistic things like punching, scrambles, more takedowns, etc. Wrestling's ruleset and especially sambo encourage you to get into better positions for these things and get out of positions that put you into bad positions for them.

What is this BJJ ruleset that you are talking about? There are many different rulesets. Some are more entertaining than others, but there certainly is different rulesets that different competitions are using. In what rules are people spamming submissions? Sounds interesting!

Also I think it’s a bit too much to say that BJJ completely lacks athleticism. You could say thay about (almost) any sport. Including punching in the rules doesn’t exactly promote athleticism. This just makes you sound anti-BJJ, which is totally fine since you are allowed to have whatever opinion you like.

 

[blaseblah]

TKD has sparring and is practiced regularly against resisting opponents. TKD still sucks.

Point karate has sparring and is practiced regularly against resisting opponents. It still sucks.

Both of them suck because they have unrealistic rulesets.

BJJ is going down that same classic TMA path of being completely unrealistic. As the sport of MMA has evolved, BJJ's lack of athleticism and complete lack of dynamic movement, takedowns, and TDD has resulted in wrestling becoming the predominant grappling art by a huge margin.

BJJ's ruleset promotes guys that pull guard, play from the bottom, look for too many submissions, completely lack athleticism, etc. That's a bad ruleset because all those things get you demolished as soon as the ruleset incorporates more realistic things like punching, scrambles, more takedowns, etc. Wrestling's ruleset and especially sambo encourage you to get into better positions for these things and get out of positions that put you into bad positions for them.

Maybe there are specific instances of full contact sparring in Karate but that is far from the norm from what I've seen.

 

[KONG-D'SNT-TAP]

Rickson is delusional a competitive purple belt would smash a black belt of 10 years ago . I've been training for 12 years so I know how much BJJ has evolved .

How come guys like Roger and Kron use what is essentially old school BJJ and have so much success. I know this is the tip of the iceberg because Roger is basically the best ever but you understand what I mean.

I’d imagine they try learn all the new stuff that comes out as well but their system is old school for the most part.

I think perhaps you have to go back further than 10 years ago. But once again I’m talking about the best guys on the other side of the spectrum.