Anders’ Cornermen Doing Him a Disservice

[HaulParris]

When they were trying to carry him back to their corner, and he kept collapsing (whether from exhaustion, damage, or both), they should have called the fight off themselves, instead of hoping that the ref wouldn’t notice and trying to sneak Eryk onto the stool.

This was reminiscent of Raquel Pennington (in the Nunes fight) telling her coach that she was done, and him convincing her to go back out and take more unnecessary punishment.

What were they hoping for? To do CPR on him when no one was looking? Cast magic spells? That he was going to recharge his power bar like a video game character? That he had a “puncher’s chance” that was going to catch Santos unaware?

Likely, this was the product of MMA’s unfortunate culture of viewing quitting as a sign of weakness, rather than a wise decision that takes into account the fighter’s chances of winning the fight, weighed against the cost of taking more unnecessary damage and shortening his career / life.

What do you guys/gals think?

 

[filthynumber1]

Meh..didnt think it was that bad.

 

[boss429]

When they were trying to carry him back to their corner, and he kept collapsing (whether from exhaustion, damage, or both), they should have called the fight off themselves, instead of hoping that the ref wouldn’t notice and trying to sneak Eryk onto the stool.

This was reminiscent of Raquel Pennington (in the Nunes fight) telling her coach that she was done, and him convincing her to go back out and take more unnecessary punishment.

What were they hoping for? To do CPR on him when no one was looking? Cast magic spells? That he was going to recharge his power bar like a video game character? That he had a “puncher’s chance” that was going to catch Santos unaware?

Likely, this was the product of MMA’s unfortunate culture of viewing quitting as a sign of weakness, rather than a wise decision that takes into account the fighter’s chances of winning the fight, weighed against the cost of taking more unnecessary damage and shortening his career / life.

What do you guys/gals think?

Ref should have stopped the fight when his corner had to lift him up as he was half conscious in a half seated position using the refs legs to keep him from falling to his back. It was obvious at that point it was over and I couldn't figure out why the ref was letting it continue.

 

[Azure]

Corner should know their fighter well enough to have figured out that he couldn't continue. I thought the ref did stop the fight?

 

[Khabib Fan]

It looked to me as though they were calling in the doctor after the second collapse.

 

[ufc_vs_pride]

Wasn't that bad, Anders was more rocked than Gassed.

 

[HelloJapan]

Just breeeeeeeeeath.

 

[Calipwnia]

When they were trying to carry him back to their corner, and he kept collapsing (whether from exhaustion, damage, or both), they should have called the fight off themselves, instead of hoping that the ref wouldn’t notice and trying to sneak Eryk onto the stool.

This was reminiscent of Raquel Pennington (in the Nunes fight) telling her coach that she was done, and him convincing her to go back out and take more unnecessary punishment.

What were they hoping for? To do CPR on him when no one was looking? Cast magic spells? That he was going to recharge his power bar like a video game character? That he had a “puncher’s chance” that was going to catch Santos unaware?

Likely, this was the product of MMA’s unfortunate culture of viewing quitting as a sign of weakness, rather than a wise decision that takes into account the fighter’s chances of winning the fight, weighed against the cost of taking more unnecessary damage and shortening his career / life.

What do you guys/gals think?

i'm sure Eryk would want someone that would help him continue to compete instead of saying "OK LET'S GIVE UP!"

 

[DarkneT]

It was awful

If you don't agree with that, you are a savage

 

[HaulParris]

i'm sure Eryk would want someone that would help him continue to compete instead of saying "OK LET'S GIVE UP!"

That’s an excellent point - as a high-level athlete/competitor, Anders probably would want to continue.

However, if it’s not in his best interest to continue (meaning the risk of needless damage far outweighs the miniscule chance of a comeback victory), then it’s up to his coaches/teammates to protect him from himself.

He may be angry with them in the moment, but living to fight another day beats dying in a vain attempt at glory. Just my opinion.

 

[Reign009]

Maybe they would have stopped it in the corner. We really don't know.

 

[Pakman]

When they were trying to carry him back to their corner, and he kept collapsing (whether from exhaustion, damage, or both), they should have called the fight off themselves, instead of hoping that the ref wouldn’t notice and trying to sneak Eryk onto the stool.

This was reminiscent of Raquel Pennington (in the Nunes fight) telling her coach that she was done, and him convincing her to go back out and take more unnecessary punishment.

What were they hoping for? To do CPR on him when no one was looking? Cast magic spells? That he was going to recharge his power bar like a video game character? That he had a “puncher’s chance” that was going to catch Santos unaware?

Likely, this was the product of MMA’s unfortunate culture of viewing quitting as a sign of weakness, rather than a wise decision that takes into account the fighter’s chances of winning the fight, weighed against the cost of taking more unnecessary damage and shortening his career / life.

What do you guys/gals think?

To the death mate. To the fuckin death #JUSTBLEED

 

[Pakman]

That’s an excellent point - as a high-level athlete/competitor, Anders probably would want to continue.

However, if it’s not in his best interest to continue (meaning the risk of needless damage far outweighs the miniscule chance of a comeback victory), then it’s up to his coaches/teammates to protect him from himself.

He may be angry with them in the moment, but living to fight another day beats dying in a vain attempt at glory. Just my opinion.

Not if you’re Spartan. Didn’t you watch the movie 300?

 

[Alxair]

MMA’s unfortunate culture of viewing quitting as a sign of weakness

What is giving up if not a sign of weakness?

Anyway, on the rest of the point - while I think they should've thrown the towel, fighters are usually with their corner in that regard and support them not giving up. There's a balance here that has to be struck - protect your fighter but don't make him feel like you doubt his ability.

 

[Calipwnia]

That’s an excellent point - as a high-level athlete/competitor, Anders probably would want to continue.

However, if it’s not in his best interest to continue (meaning the risk of needless damage far outweighs the miniscule chance of a comeback victory), then it’s up to his coaches/teammates to protect him from himself.

He may be angry with them in the moment, but living to fight another day beats dying in a vain attempt at glory. Just my opinion.

Easy to look in hindsight and say to throw the towel

 

[Rvd Slmr]

I think it's just that they were not expecting him to be that hurt. It's not like he was knocked out flat in the middle of the octagon right at the buzzer, he was in a position with limited visibility where he choose to be in the first place.

 

[BjPenn2017]

I think it's just that they were not expecting him to be that hurt. It's not like he was knocked out flat in the middle of the octagon right at the buzzer, he was in a position with limited visibility where he choose to be in the first place.

Pretty much what I thought too. His corner probably couldn't see that well from where they were, those were hard shots landing at a weird angle that was hard to see, you don't see many fights ended in positions like that or many guys with the power to do it like Santos did. It honestly looked like Anders was just trying to hide his head and survive till the next round.

I don't think anyone is neccesarily at fault in this one, especially considering the right decision was made in the end anyway. This isn't a Herb/CB Dolloway corner situation, that was blatantly bad as could be.

 

[The Natural Born Runner]

When they were trying to carry him back to their corner, and he kept collapsing (whether from exhaustion, damage, or both), they should have called the fight off themselves, instead of hoping that the ref wouldn’t notice and trying to sneak Eryk onto the stool.

This was reminiscent of Raquel Pennington (in the Nunes fight) telling her coach that she was done, and him convincing her to go back out and take more unnecessary punishment.

What were they hoping for? To do CPR on him when no one was looking? Cast magic spells? That he was going to recharge his power bar like a video game character? That he had a “puncher’s chance” that was going to catch Santos unaware?

Likely, this was the product of MMA’s unfortunate culture of viewing quitting as a sign of weakness, rather than a wise decision that takes into account the fighter’s chances of winning the fight, weighed against the cost of taking more unnecessary damage and shortening his career / life.

What do you guys/gals think?

I tend to disagree with you.

You cannot give up at the first sign of failure, especially in the Pennington scenario - if anything I thought she was being a bit of a quitter in that break between rounds 4 and 5. Look, I'm not the fighter and I'm not the one in the cage so forgive me for playing armchair quarterback, but I think we all have to do it when analyzing a fight. Her coaches looked her in the eye and knew she wasn't done, she was taking the easy way out. Like it or not, going the distance doesn't mean much when you lose every round, but quitting on your stool sticks with you forever, they didn't want her to quit. Amanda did her some serious damage in Round 5 so we all want to look back in retrospect and blame the corner, when really Raquel didn't throw everything she had at Nunes, she limped out there for Round 5 and accepted the beating. If Raquel was so done then she should have told the referee she was done, the corner are there to protect the fighter but they didn't ignore her being beaten to a pulp, they simply encouraged her to dig deep between rounds, I have no issue with their actions.

In terms of Anders' corner, the whole thing happened so quick. Anders was in that fight, even though he may have been down 2-1 or even 3-0 on the scorecards. They knew their man was tired so they may have just thought it was exhaustion. How many times have you seen a fighter wobble and stumble back to the corner, it's happened many times before and the fighter sometimes clears the cobwebs and continues. By the time Anders fell the second time Goddard was waving it off, it's not like the corner got him to the stool, looked him in his glazed over eyes and sent him back out for Round 4.

I think being a cornerman/woman is tougher than it looks.

 

[Morris88]

I tend to disagree with you.

You cannot give up at the first sign of failure, especially in the Pennington scenario - if anything I thought she was being a bit of a quitter in that break between rounds 4 and 5. Look, I'm not the fighter and I'm not the one in the cage so forgive me for playing armchair quarterback, but I think we all have to do it when analyzing a fight. Her coaches looked her in the eye and knew she wasn't done, she was taking the easy way out. Like it or not, going the distance doesn't mean much when you lose every round, but quitting on your stool sticks with you forever, they didn't want her to quit. Amanda did her some serious damage in Round 5 so we all want to look back in retrospect and blame the corner, when really Raquel didn't throw everything she had at Nunes, she limped out there for Round 5 and accepted the beating. If Raquel was so done then she should have told the referee she was done, the corner are there to protect the fighter but they didn't ignore her being beaten to a pulp, they simply encouraged her to dig deep between rounds, I have no issue with their actions.

In terms of Anders' corner, the whole thing happened so quick. Anders was in that fight, even though he may have been down 2-1 or even 3-0 on the scorecards. They knew their man was tired so they may have just thought it was exhaustion. How many times have you seen a fighter wobble and stumble back to the corner, it's happened many times before and the fighter sometimes clears the cobwebs and continues. By the time Anders fell the second time Goddard was waving it off, it's not like the corner got him to the stool, looked him in his glazed over eyes and sent him back out for Round 4.

I think being a cornerman/woman is tougher than it looks.

I think you raise an interesting point there. From a cornerman's perspective, it's a judgement call, and the balancing act is not putting your fighter in harm's way unnecessarily, but also not allowing them to give up prematurely (on the basis that after 2/3 rounds they are no longer thinking beyond the fight, their bodies may be urging them to quit and they may have lost sight of the fact that their opponent probably feels exactly the same if not worse).

Like referees they will make these judgement calls based on the information they have available and will not always get it exactly right.

 

[The Natural Born Runner]

I think you raise an interesting point there. From a cornerman's perspective, it's a judgement call, and the balancing act is not putting your fighter in harm's way unnecessarily, but also not allowing them to give up prematurely (on the basis that after 2/3 rounds they are no longer thinking beyond the fight, their bodies may be urging them to quit and they may have lost sight of the fact that their opponent probably feels exactly the same if not worse).

Like referees they will make these judgement calls based on the information they have available and will not always get it exactly right.

Thanks for your response man, and I'm glad you agree somewhat.

We have enough examples available to us where a fighter is severely hurt between rounds and goes on to win. His name is failing me now but recently a guy had a very bad leg injury but went out there and won the fight in the next round via stoppage. Sean O'Malley hurt his leg during a round but I didn't see his corner throwing in a towel because he was unable to stand. Georges St. Pierre told Greg Jackson that he couldn't see and in another fight told him that he tore his quad, what did Greg do? Sent him straight back out there and he won both fights.

Sometimes it's just over, sometimes it's not.