Fighters who are Jack-of-All Trades Master of None lose to the lower weight class fighter

Combat Wombatt

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First off, I'm not saying this is a 100% thing that happens every time, I couldn't fit "many times" in the short title slot. But when you look at top fighters it has happened.

The most famous two that come to mind are HW champ Stipe Miocic losing to LHW champ Daniel Cormier and LHW Forrest Griffin losing to MW Anderson Silva.

I said this in the past before both fights happened, Forrest Griffin and Stipe Miocic are Jack-of-All Trades Master of None fighters. They're like jobbers. They usually have great conditioning (which helps them wear down their opponents), decent chins, and are fairly decent at all facets of MMA, however they lack the lethal skill of either deadly striking or ground game. They aren't 1 hitter quitters with feared striking like Mark Hunt or BJJ wizards with fight ending subs like Demian Maia. Fighters aren't afraid to stand with them or go to the ground with them.

If a Jack-of-All Trades Master of None fought another Jack-of-All Trades Master of None from a lower weight class they would most likely since but since their lower weight class opponents have lethal skills they lose.

When you look at Forrest's and Stipe's record you don't see consistent 1 punch KO's or subs against high level opponents. (Sure you see Stipe's 1 punch KO of a stupid Werdum who ran chin first, hands down into Stipe's fist, but Henry Cejudo could have probably KO'd Werdum running into his fist that day). This is why Anderson beat Forrest, Forrest wasn't a great striker and didn't have 1 punch power but he chose to stand and bang with Anderson, but what else was he gonna do, take him down with his mediocre BJJ skills, and lose with 1 punch. And you saw Stipe lose to a smaller fighter who has more punching power than him. You could even throw Cain Velasquez in here. He doesn't have lethal ground skills or 1 proven 1 punch KO power and normally tires his HW opponents out, it's not hard to gas most HWs, before the inevitable TKO victory. His only 1 punch KO was a battle-worn Big Nog's who's chin was already gone. I also said earlier that if DC and Cain fought DC would win because he has a better chin, superior wrestling, and heavier hands. Once again a case where the lower weight class fighter would beat the heavier weight class fighter, DC the LHW beating Cain the HW. I will note that DC initially fought at HW but that was almost 1/2 a decade ago.

Look at GSP vs. Michael Bisping. GSP the WW beat the MW champ Bisping with a sub. GSP hasn't used a sub in a long time but he has a very good sub game and is lethal with it. Bisping, who's a great all around fighter with great conditioning does not have lethal 1 punch power or a great sub/GnP game and we saw what happened there, Bisping got sub'd in a dominant loss to a lower weight class fighter.

When you see high level fighters who lack a lethal skill such as proven 1 punch power or a lethal ground game you have a good chance of seeing them lose to a fighter from a lower weight class who has said lethal skills.

Agree/Disagree?
 
MMA is the definition of Jack of all trades?
 
Not attacking TS but I loved how back when Nog had his war with Couture it was all 'Minotauro is back!" and when he fought Cain, to discredit Cain it was "Big Nog is over the hill, Cain has pillow fists!"
 
Not attacking TS but I loved how back when Nog had his war with Couture it was all 'Minotauro is back!" and when he fought Cain, to discredit Cain it was "Big Nog is over the hill, Cain has pillow fists!"

Sadly Big Nog’s chin has already been cracked and he has been merc'd by the 1 punch KO machine elite striker Frank Mir when he lost to Cain.
 
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Keith @%@(* Jardine knocked out Forrest.

He was a nice guy and did some important things for the sport, but he was not a particularly athletic or skilled guy, so much as gutsy and around at the right time.

He was coming off a KO LOSS when he fought Anderson. It was a gimmie fight stunt booking to perpetuate the 'matrix' marketing of Silva.

Book exhibition level fights get exhibition level results.
 
could Frankie Edgar's toughness/footwork be considered a "lethal skill"? he had an impressive run at lightweight where everyone was bigger than him
 
Not attacking TS but I loved how back when Nog had his war with Couture it was all 'Minotauro is back!" and when he fought Cain, to discredit Cain it was "Big Nog is over the hill, Cain has pillow fists!"

did people really think Nogueira was back after his win over Couture?

anyone with a working set of eyes could see Nogueira wasn't the same even when he first came into the UFC.

fighters age like bread, not wine.
 
MMA is the definition of Jack of all trades?
True, but some MMA fighters have mastered a skillset. For example, Henry Cejudo won a gold medal in wrestling, so you can't call him a jack of all trades.
 
did people really think Nogueira was back after his win over Couture?

anyone with a working set of eyes could see Nogueira wasn't the same even when he first came into the UFC.

fighters age like bread, not wine.
A mod was really parading around for Nog and even saying how over rated Cain was and he had nothing for Noguiera. It was pretty funny.
 
Keith @%@(* Jardine knocked out Forrest.

He was a nice guy and did some important things for the sport, but he was not a particularly athletic or skilled guy, so much as gutsy and around at the right time.

He was coming off a KO LOSS when he fought Anderson. It was a gimmie fight stunt booking to perpetuate the 'matrix' marketing of Silva.

Book exhibition level fights get exhibition level results.

Jardine also dropped Liddell and soundly defeated him. Also had a damn competitive fight with Rampage that would probably have gone his way if it wasn't for a big punch landed by Quinton in the last round. So losing to Jardine isn't the barometer of shittiness that you're making it out to be.
 
Jardine also dropped Liddell and soundly defeated him.

Right. Liddell then goes on to get knocked out spectacularly over, and over, and over and over again.

Are you kidding with this?
 
Stipe KO'd the best strikers in his division. He's not a jack of all trades.
 
First off, I'm not saying this is a 100% thing that happens every time, I couldn't fit "many times" in the short title slot. But when you look at top fighters it has happened.

The most famous two that come to mind are HW champ Stipe Miocic losing to LHW champ Daniel Cormier and LHW Forrest Griffin losing to MW Anderson Silva.

I said this in the past before both fights happened, Forrest Griffin and Stipe Miocic are Jack-of-All Trades Master of None fighters. They're like jobbers. They usually have great conditioning (which helps them wear down their opponents), decent chins, and are fairly decent at all facets of MMA, however they lack the lethal skill of either deadly striking or ground game. They aren't 1 hitter quitters with feared striking like Mark Hunt or BJJ wizards with fight ending subs like Demian Maia. Fighters aren't afraid to stand with them or go to the ground with them.

If a Jack-of-All Trades Master of None fought another Jack-of-All Trades Master of None from a lower weight class they would most likely since but since their lower weight class opponents have lethal skills they lose.

When you look at Forrest's and Stipe's record you don't see consistent 1 punch KO's or subs against high level opponents. (Sure you see Stipe's 1 punch KO of a stupid Werdum who ran chin first, hands down into Stipe's fist, but Henry Cejudo could have probably KO'd Werdum running into his fist that day). This is why Anderson beat Forrest, Forrest wasn't a great striker and didn't have 1 punch power but he chose to stand and bang with Anderson, but what else was he gonna do, take him down with his mediocre BJJ skills, and lose with 1 punch. And you saw Stipe lose to a smaller fighter who has more punching power than him. You could even throw Cain Velasquez in here. He doesn't have lethal ground skills or 1 proven 1 punch KO power and normally tires his HW opponents out, it's not hard to gas most HWs, before the inevitable TKO victory. His only 1 punch KO was a battle-worn Big Nog's who's chin was already gone. I also said earlier that if DC and Cain fought DC would win because he has a better chin, superior wrestling, and heavier hands. Once again a case where the lower weight class fighter would beat the heavier weight class fighter, DC the LHW beating Cain the HW. I will note that DC initially fought at HW but that was almost 1/2 a decade ago.

Look at GSP vs. Michael Bisping. GSP the WW beat the MW champ Bisping with a sub. GSP hasn't used a sub in a long time but he has a very good sub game and is lethal with it. Bisping, who's a great all around fighter with great conditioning does not have lethal 1 punch power or a great sub/GnP game and we saw what happened there, Bisping got sub'd in a dominant loss to a lower weight class fighter.

When you see high level fighters who lack a lethal skill such as proven 1 punch power or a lethal ground game you have a good chance of seeing them lose to a fighter from a lower weight class who has said lethal skills.

Agree/Disagree?
Your example doesnt fit your argument though. Daniel Cormier, a wrestler, KO'd the "jack of all trades" stipe with his hands.

And Stipe lacks the deadly skills of striking? If the ref werent there hed have literally killed 5 contenders in a row with his strikes.

This isnt even circumstantial evidence since 1/2 of your examples contradict your conclusion
 
Stipe KO'd the best strikers in his division. He's not a jack of all trades.

Stipe doesn't have prove and consistent 1 punch KO that made people fear him. His opponents weren't afraid to stand and bang with him.

Mark Hunt's and Roy Nelson's opponent's were afraid to stand and bang with them.


Stipe has one 1 punch KO.......1. And that was of a dumb Werdum who ran right at him full-speed with his hands down.


If Stipe had more that one 1 punch KO than perhaps bu the doesn't. So no, Stipe hasn't KO'd the best strikers in the division. He does have a lot of TKOs and a few KOs from punches but only 1 one punch KO.

When Stipe fought Francis Ngannou everyone said Stipe better use his wrestling so Ngannou the striker doesn't knock his head off....so, there's that.
 
Technically, Frankie Edgar losing to Aldo. Although Frankie was fighting way closer to his natural weight at 145 and was still undersized there lol.
 
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