Verdum - end of BJJ at the top MMA level

[RealFedor]

...considering last night loss, where he basically spent most of the fight on the ground not being able to do literally anything - and honestly, I don't think that Volkov is even close to top level competition; Jacare Souza getting the fight to the ground (vs Bobby Knuckles), the same outcome; Maya not even getting the fight to the ground... 3 BJJ powerhouses at the end of their careers, read through by top level MMA competition...

And don't mention Ortega, the guy KO'ed Frankie Edgar, didn't even try to put him on the ground..

 

[MadDogMahoney]

wut

 

[Headkicktoleg]

Defensive BJJ is easier than subs. Anyone who doesn't practice BJJ is goiing to get subbed. Lets please not do one of these dumb threads again.

 

[SCTwins]

But... fighters will still be using BJJ techniques in almost every fight at the elite level.

I don't understand.

 

[BigMuffler]

Werdum, Maia and Jacare are all 40 or almost 40.

When a 40 yo Wonderboy, Conor, Whittaker etc. can no longer strike well will striking be dead?

 

[SomniumRabidum]

Why not mention Ortega? Werdum has a few nice KOs on his record, as does Jacare...

We're not seeing the end of BJJ at the top level, we're seeing old guys getting older.

 

[superpunch]

Anyone trying to use BJJ at the top level is fighting an uphill battle. It doesn't encourage aggression or competent takedowns. They're ground specialists and you can be world champion without being able to take it to the ground!!

Its ruleset is so unrealistic. It's falling into the same trap that TMAs did: unrealistic rulesets and unrealistic competition leading to unrealistic techniques and unrealistic training. It just hasn't adapted with the times.

 

[MMonk]

Bobby has phenomenal TDD, defended against wrestling and BJJ phenom.

Maia has weak takedowns, got old and Woodley - powerfull wrestling and defense.

Werdum - got old also, and Volkov really prepared his defensive BJJ.

All 3 are past thier primes, got beat by younger, stronger competition.

 

[chinarice]

The top guys of BJJ now have evolved to being threats by striking off their back.

Tony and Ortega have the better ground games for MMA in 2018, IMO.

 

[Headkicktoleg]

Anyone trying to use BJJ at the top level is fighting an uphill battle. It doesn't encourage aggression or competent takedowns. They're ground specialists and you can be world champion without being able to take it to the ground!!

Its ruleset is so unrealistic. It's falling into the same trap that TMAs did: unrealistic rulesets and unrealistic competition leading to unrealistic techniques and unrealistic training. It just hasn't adapted with the times.

Put any blue belt against someone not trained in jiu jitsu they will sub them in like 20 seconds.

 

[The Accuser]

Werdum just got old. The guy is 40 and has a lot of mileage. Since he is my second most favorite fighter all time, I hate to say this but his time at the top is over. That has nothing to do with BJJ or Volkov (whose lack of tdd will grant Stipe an easy title defense), but everything with age.

Thanks for the good fights, great submissions and for always being a good sport, top 3 HW GOAT Werdum.

 

[superpunch]

Put any blue belt against someone not trained in jiu jitsu they will sub them in like 20 seconds.

Put any aikido guy against someone untrained and they will toss them on their ass in 5 seconds.

We're looking at trained martial artists here. BJJ is becoming increasingly irrelevant because it doesn't train realistically and its competitions don't have realistic rules.

 

[BigMuffler]

Put any aikido guy against someone untrained and they will toss them on their ass in 5 seconds.

We're looking at trained martial artists here. BJJ is becoming increasingly irrelevant because it doesn't train realistically and its competitions don't have realistic rules.

Pure boxing doesn't train realistically or have realistic rules.

 

[Headkicktoleg]

Put any aikido guy against someone untrained and they will toss them on their ass in 5 seconds.

We're looking at trained martial artists here. BJJ is becoming increasingly irrelevant because it doesn't train realistically and its competitions don't have realistic rules.

Thats just not true. Jiu Jitsu is the foundation of all the ground fighting in MMA. You kidding yourself if you don't think Bobby Knuckles or Volkov wouldn't tear most guys a new one in jiu jitsu competitions.

 

[moreorless87]

Werdum just got old. The guy is 40 and has a lot of mileage. Since he is my second most favorite fighter all time, I hate to say this but his time at the top is over. That has nothing to do with BJJ or Volkov (whose lack of tdd will grant Stipe an easy title defense), just with age.

Thanks for the good fights, great submissions and for being a good sport, top 3 HW GOAT Werdum.

Physical decline I think is actually more of an issue with sub grappling than any other part of MMA.

Compared to pure BJJ/ADCC MMA submission success has always tended to be based on fighters showing a lot of speed and agility. Slowing building position is far harder to achieve, taking sub openings or chances to quickly gain position or sweeps are far more important. Just look at Nog and the difference between the first and second Werdum fight.

Wrestling and striking I think theres actually more room to switch to a less physically demanding style, sub grappling though is I'd say more difficult when the speed/agility declines.

If BJJ is in decline in MMA its due to fewer high level BJJ guys moving to MMA seriously the way Werdum, Nog, Jacare, etc did in the past.

 

[blaseblah]

Put any aikido guy against someone untrained and they will toss them on their ass in 5 seconds.

We're looking at trained martial artists here. BJJ is becoming increasingly irrelevant because it doesn't train realistically and its competitions don't have realistic rules.

Literally every fighter in the UFC trains BJJ. You're going full retard.

 

[The Natural Born Runner]

Did you not see the whole card where BJJ was continuously a theme of success?

Wake up, watch all the fights.

 

[JackSchtotll]

That's a poor way of looking at it.

BJJ actually has made it through the entire sport, that everybody uses it as a base for their training. BJJ is everywhere: the days of a BJJ against someone with no clue about it is over.

 

[superpunch]

Literally every fighter in the UFC trains BJJ. You're going full retard.

Age I think is actually more of an issue with sub grappling than any other part of MMA.

Compared to pure BJJ/ADCC MMA submission success has always tended to be based on fighters showing a lot of speed and agility. Slowing building position is far harder to achieve, taking sub openings or chances to quickly gain position or sweeps are far more important. Just look at Nog and the difference between the first and second Werdum fight.

Wrestling and striking I think theres actually more room to switch to a less physically demanding style, sub grappling though is I'd say more difficult.

I don't mean that it's becoming useless. That was hyperbole. I mean that it's an accessory martial art, not a base anymore. No one will successfully be able to specialize in it anymore. It's just not that effective like boxing, wrestilng, etc. are.

 

[DustinBeaver]

Werdum, Maia and Jacare are all 40 or almost 40.

When a 40 yo Wonderboy, Conor, Whittaker etc. can no longer strike well will striking be dead?