37 Palestinians and counting dead, 1600 injured bc of Israel

[InternetHero]

Well ... kind of how one would expect for a people being held captive and deprived of basic human right, goods and services for generations by a ruthless enemy who sees them as subhuman.

Not sure if this relates to civilization though. You?

I'm sure the Saudi's or Iranian's will rush in to rebuild Gaza into a petrol and natural gas fueled paradise any day now.

Or perhaps militarizing Hamas has been easier and more politically fun?

Oh, well what about Lebanon...

Iran has been a client state of Lebanon for a long time and we can clearly not see how Lebanon's civic, social, or overall welfare has been raised rather than further militarizing Hezbollah, taking political power from the people, crushing dissident and plurality, and reminding everyone that while Israel often sucks, the regional neighbors actively blow.

 

[jeffk]

As has been asked multiple times to those who say this, PLEASE SHOW ME ON A MAP WHERE YOU WILL BE PLACING A CONTIGUOUS PALESTINE.

The Clinton Parameter or what Olmert proposed.

Abbas agrees to some swaps of land. Olmert wanted to swap around 6% and Abbas wanted to limit it to about 2%

What Omert proposed in 2008

 

[Islam Imamate]

I'm sure the Saudi's or Iranian's will rush in to rebuild Gaza into a petrol and natural gas fueled paradise any day now.

Or perhaps militarizing Hamas has been easier and more politically fun?

Oh, well what about Lebanon...

Iran has been a client state of Lebanon for a long time and we can clearly not see how Lebanon's civic, social, or overall welfare has been raised rather than further militarizing Hezbollah, taking political power from the people, crushing dissident and plurality, and reminding everyone that while Israel often sucks, the regional neighbors actively blow.

Israel has had its own fair share of fuckery in Lebanon though. Ask Lebanese who they think is a greater threat to their country and I bet most would say Israel over Iran given the fact that the former has actually invaded them multiple times and has also threatened them countless times since.

 

[jeffk]

With regards to terrority, the Clinton Paramters called for: for sake of ease I copied wikipedia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Clinton_Parameters


The Clinton Parameters proposed a Palestinian state comprising between 94–96% of the West Bank and the entire Gaza Strip. Israel would annex the remaining land, which would include Israel settlements, containing 80% of the settler population, mainly in major settlement blocs. Israel would cede 1–3% of land to the Palestinians in land swaps to compensate for the annexations. The Palestinian state would have to be contiguous, and annexed areas along with the number of Palestinians affected would be as minimized as possible.

 

[jeffk]

Lebanon has treated Palestinian refugees like dirt.

 

[InternetHero]

Israel has had its own fair share of fuckery in Lebanon though. Ask Lebanese who they think is a greater threat to their country and I bet most would say Israel over Iran given the fact that the former has actually invaded them multiple times and has also threatened them countless times since.

That's certainly fair historically, but it also depends on asking Muslims or Christians in Lebanon.

Not that Lebanese or Syrian or Egyptian Christians are fans of Israel either, most are not, but a lot more will see the danger of Saudi Arabia and Iran, who are active in destroying their ancient communities in Syria and Egypt through hidden hand payments from the Saudi's, Iranians, and Turkish payments to ISIS, other radical groups, the Muslim Brotherhood, and other bad actors willing to use community intimidation and when that fails open violence to cause trouble.

Cyprus is another troubling place to look, depending which side of Cyprus one ended up on.

Israel is also unfair to Muslims and Christians (arbitrary taxes, harassment, bureaucratic red tape) but, if you were a Christian would you rather live in or under the aegis of Israel or are most of the neighbors not that great?

 

[Islam Imamate]

That's certainly fair historically, but it also depends on asking Muslims or Christians in Lebanon.

Not that Lebanese or Syrian or Egyptian Christians are fans of Israel either, most are not, but a lot more will see the danger of Saudi Arabia and Iran, who are active in destroying their ancient communities in Syria and Egypt through hidden hand payments from the Saudi's, Iranians, and Turkish payments to ISIS, other radical groups, the Muslim Brotherhood, and other bad actors willing to use community intimidation and when that fails open violence to cause trouble.

Cyprus is another troubling place to look, depending which side of Cyprus one ended up on.

Israel is also unfair to Muslims and Christians (arbitrary taxes, harassment, bureaucratic red tape) but, if you were a Christian would you rather live in or under the aegis of Israel or are most of the neighbors not that great?

That's fair I'd say.

If I were a Christian I would rather be born in Lebanon than the occupied territories tbh. That's pretty much the only exception. Egypt is a complete shit hole and that's doubly so for the Copts. Which is such a shame given this is what the Prophet had to say about the Copts:

The Copts are the noblest of foreigners; the gentlest of them in action; the most excellent of them in character, and the nearest of them in kinship to the Arabs generally, and to the tribe of Kuraish in particular.

God will open Egypt to you after my death. So take good care of the Copts in that country; for they are your kinsmen and under your protection. Cast down your eyes therefore, and keep your hands off them

It is unfortunate that the Muslims in Egypt today do not heed this command of the Prophet.

 

[oleDirtyBast4rd]

That's not true. For one, native Jews could own and purchase land. To the extent that they couldn't it wasn't because they were Jewish but because Ottoman law only classified some land as private property and thus liable for the free sale and purchase whereas a lot of land was classified as state lands, some of which could be leased but not sold as private property, or were communally owned by villages.

Second, foreigners(Jews included) were allowed to purchase land in 1858 on paper and in practice in 1867 and indeed Zionists did start purchasing land in Palestine in the 2nd half of the 19th century. The Ottomans were weary of this and did try to limit it but that was primarily because many of the Jews emigrating and settling were Russian Jews so the suspicion of the Ottomans had more to do with their nationality than their religion given the antagonism between the Ottomans and the Russians.

The reason Jewish ownership expanded rapidly is because the Zionist movement started to pick up more steam in the wake of antisemitic pogroms in Tsarist Russia in the late 19th century up through WWI. In addition British rule was more favorable to Zionists because of Zionist influence over the British government.

Thanks for the info. What are your thoughts about that map going around?

 

[Islam Imamate]

Thanks for the info. What are your thoughts about that map going around?

I've seen it passed around a lot on various sites. I tend to be skeptical of images and infographs that aren't sourced relating to this conflict since its such a heated issue with a lot of misinformation but it looks generally accurate based on what I know of the situation except that it seems to understate the extent of Jewish land ownership a little. I would think that the Jews would have owned a little more land by 1947 but that said, I don't have the exact relevant figures off the top of my head so its hard for me to say either way.

 

[InternetHero]

It is unfortunate that the Muslims in Egypt today do not heed this command of the Prophet.

True, true, but I don't blame the rank and file Muslims so much. Most certainly want to live and let live.

Most educated regional Muslims, despite state propaganda or brutish street sentiment, would probably be with the Prophet and ask "why would anyone bother the Copts?," but are busy working hard in a harsh world, and know going against the angry voices will cause trouble.

As for "the street?" their feelings are being poisoned at the well water by bad leadership, poor kings.

The leaders, they should know better than to fire up the zealots and patriots for bad ends, they know what they are doing and the zealots and patriots should know but once the mob is riled, the mob will act in primitive and stupid fashion, universally.

The "Blood and soil!" crowd easily forgets history, all history and that killing or oppressing innocents for the dreams of the day has always been an evil.

Whether it's a Muslim bomber in a Coptic church, a Serbian Christian who massacred Muslim peasants, or farther removed, and yet not quite so far... a SJW or Alt-Righter.

The same rage for "US" against "THEM" is warned about over and over again by religion, thousands of years, and people still do not want to see what has been written on their hearts for millennia.

In fact, rushing to take an eraser to everything, because "I WANT" my perfect world, my paradise, my social justice, my people to "win."

Let's do our best to remind the excitable among us why we chose to walk away from these things.

 

[oleDirtyBast4rd]

I've seen it passed around a lot on various sites. I tend to be skeptical of images and infographs that aren't sourced relating to this conflict since its such a heated issue with a lot of misinformation but it looks generally accurate based on what I know of the situation except that it seems to understate the extent of Jewish land ownership a little. I would think that the Jews would have owned a little more land by 1947 but that said, I don't have the exact relevant figures off the top of my head so its hard for me to say either way.

I was speaking more of the fact the map suggests 95% of the land belonged to the Palestinians. This at a time when Palestinian was referring to both Jews and arabs

 

[Ultra O’Dia]

Someone has posted the vid of the ‘dead Palestinian’ actors wriggling under the sheet, right.

Too drunk to check.


Thanks.

Fuck you HomerThompson and ..... damn.... who is that other total idiot....

 

[Islam Imamate]

I was speaking more of the fact the map suggests 95% of the land belonged to the Palestinians. This at a time when Palestinian was referring to both Jews and arabs

Its a little complicated because as you point out the distinction isn't always clear. The native Muslims made a distinction between the native, Arab Jews(called awlad al-balad or "sons of the land") and the foreign Zionists who were displacing them. The British might've made the same distinction, being able to tell between the mostly Eastern European Zionists and the Arabs but not so much between the Arab Muslims, Jews, and Christians.

The info graph is probably referring to the land owned by the Zionist settlements and not necessarily native Arab Jews whom the British would've likely referred to as Palestinians like their Muslim and Christian neighbors.

 

[LuchaBear]

Someone has posted the vid of the ‘dead Palestinian’ actors wriggling under the sheet, right.

Too drunk to check.


Thanks.

Fuck you HomerThompson and ..... damn.... who is that other total idiot....

It's not accurate




This video was posted on YouTube 5 years ago

 

[Ultra O’Dia]

It's not accurate




This video was posted on YouTube 5 years ago

Thanks. Fuck me, I’m glad that is cleared up.
Hard to trust much nowadays.
I will be more careful

 

[Muay o Muay]

Considering Jews weren't allowed to purchase land under the ottoman empire, who controlled the land before the mandate, this fact means next to nothing.

Let me ask you this... who even are the Palestinians? Do you suggest they are more then just arabs? Do arabs not have Jordan?

Jews were allowed to purchase land, and when the Ottomans registered land ownership a lot of the Arab farmers who had lived and worked on land for generations didn't realise the importance of registering it and it was registered instead by non resident arabs, often these were the ones who sold land to zionist organisations, meaning the original inhabitants who neglected to register ended up evicted.

 

[Muay o Muay]

Putting aside arguments about the land, the pretence that Israel is some western democracy needs to stop. Shooting of protesters should result in major international outcry, condemnation and sanctions, instead there will be a few disapproving groans and otherwise a pass given.

 

[Bloodworth]

Blaming the victim is easy and fun.

Oh yes- I forgot Poor jews. A single tear for you.

So you are siding with the Palestinians on this one.

Line drawn pick your side so there can be one winner and one loser after battle.

 

[Bloodworth]

Putting aside arguments about the land, the pretence that Israel is some western democracy needs to stop. Shooting of protesters should result in major international outcry, condemnation and sanctions, instead there will be a few disapproving groans and otherwise a pass given.

They are not as innocent as you make them seem. They are Showing up to their border to cause trouble.

Palestinians want death to Israel 24/7.

Through their actions and decision making they have not evolved as fast as other civilizations and have been left behind.

And since day 1 those civilizations have been wiped out by the more successful.

 

[ProBoxingInsidr]

delete