fixing jaw can decrease knockouts? *VIDEO

[shortlefthook]

Rogan questions Julie on whether or not having her jaw aligned helped her take a punch better.
some sport's rehab doctors respond, and also mention some other factors that could associate with having a good chin.

for me the neck is probably the most important physical feature, strong traps, and strong neck flexors makes your head much harder to whip around and more stable, the sports docs seem to agree its a huge factor.

never really thought about the whole jaw alignment thing, not sure if i buy it, because sam alvey and lawler both got that slanted jaw going on, and they have great chins, but who knows take alvey to the doc to get his shits aligned.

the biggest factor to not getting kod is probably neurological though, its hard to tell just looking at someone who can take a punch or not.
you got baby faces like barao eating stephens uppercuts and not even wobbling, to rdas big solid dome getting cracked stiff from a stephens uppercuts.

 

[Nuber1Bull]

PEDs

 

[death_by_teeps]

I've always had a little obsession with slowing down video footage, seeing how far someones head is displaced in one frame, to get an idea of how hard someone was hit (using F=MA). In my judgement, the people who get knocked out simply have their heads move quickly (accelerate hard), and guys who are known for having "iron jaws", their heads don't move as much when they take a hit. Seems like the guys who supposedly have iron jaws are not getting their heads accelerated sharply. Mark Hunt, when he was ko'd by manholf, he didn't see punch and Hunt's head snapped real quickly. Seems to me everybody is about the same, some guys just can just sense when the strike is about to land and tense their neck appropriately. Similar to guys who always see low kicks coming and check well, they just react better to it defensively.

Ive never seen any footage, not ever, where a really severe punch or kick that snaps a dudes head does not go down. Like this axe kick KO I saw on youtube today, look at how bad this guys head accelerates. Is there anybody who would not be knocked out from such a jolt? Doubtful. There is nobody who could take such a jolt as here and stay conscious:

 

[Natesblackshirt]

I've always had a little obsession with slowing down video footage, seeing how far someones head is displaced in one frame, to get an idea of how hard someone was hit (using F=MA). In my judgement, the people who get knocked out simply have their heads move quickly (accelerate hard), and guys who are known for having "iron jaws", their heads don't move as much when they take a hit. Seems like the guys who supposedly have iron jaws are not getting their heads accelerated sharply. Mark Hunt, when he was ko'd by manholf, he didn't see punch and Hunt's head snapped real quickly. Seems to me everybody is about the same, some guys just can just sense when the strike is about to land and tense their neck appropriately. Similar to guys who always see low kicks coming and check well, they just react better to it defensively.

Ive never seen any footage, not ever, where a really severe punch or kick that snaps a dudes head does not go down. Like this axe kick KO I saw on youtube today, look at how bad this guys head accelerates. Is there anybody who would not be knocked out from such a jolt? Doubtful. There is nobody who could take such a jolt as here and stay conscious:

I'm a simple man, I saw axe kick KO and immediately clicked. Gawd damn!

 

[Lissove]

Neurological is a big factor I believe, chins get cracked and even fearsome domes as Bigfoot's or wrestling neck as Hendo's lose their ability to withstand a punch.

Maybe the other thing is mental fortitude. Some fighter take so much damage and big shots but still keep pushing, as if the way they take a punch is a result of how subconsciously they ready themselves and respond to it, in a way it is hard to describe it in sort of aporia.

 

[Lissove]

I've always had a little obsession with slowing down video footage, seeing how far someones head is displaced in one frame, to get an idea of how hard someone was hit (using F=MA). In my judgement, the people who get knocked out simply have their heads move quickly (accelerate hard), and guys who are known for having "iron jaws", their heads don't move as much when they take a hit. Seems like the guys who supposedly have iron jaws are not getting their heads accelerated sharply. Mark Hunt, when he was ko'd by manholf, he didn't see punch and Hunt's head snapped real quickly. Seems to me everybody is about the same, some guys just can just sense when the strike is about to land and tense their neck appropriately. Similar to guys who always see low kicks coming and check well, they just react better to it defensively.

Ive never seen any footage, not ever, where a really severe punch or kick that snaps a dudes head does not go down. Like this axe kick KO I saw on youtube today, look at how bad this guys head accelerates. Is there anybody who would not be knocked out from such a jolt? Doubtful. There is nobody who could take such a jolt as here and stay conscious:

 

[death_by_teeps]

Neurological is a big factor I believe, chins get cracked and even fearsome domes as Bigfoot's or wrestling neck as Hendo's lose their ability to withstand a punch.

Maybe the other thing is mental fortitude. Some fighter take so much damage and big shots but still keep pushing, as if the way they take a punch is a result of how subconsciously they ready themselves and respond to it, in a way it is hard to describe it in sort of aporia.

I here you about guys getting their chins cracked, but I wonder whether their chins "cracking" is them losing the reflex to see the strike and flex their neck. I think flexing of the neck is by far the biggest factor, and here is why. If you don't flex your neck at all, the acceleration of the brain is from a 20 pound mass of the head. However, we know someone can bridge (like wrestlers do to strengthen their neck) laying down using just their neck, so in other words, they can increase the resistance to a punch from 20 pounds inertia to like 100 pounds (inertia of head with neck flexing against body--making the "weight" of the head more like 100 pounds). That is a 5x reduction in the acceleration the brain will endure, because it is 5x the resistance to the force. So the ability to flex the neck in time is difference of 5 times the force. Seems to me this should explain almost all of the differences between fighters ability to take the punch.

 

[MMA]

I think it's mainly neurological and psychological and, um, defense


The guys who are better at being aware of where strikes come from see them coming more and are less likely to get KO'd. If you're flinchy or just less aware, you get hit by the one you didn't see coming...

 

[death_by_teeps]

Its a jolt, but notice the wobble of the head occurs over three frames. This is not as severe, as say, that axe kick (1 frame) or Gilbert's ko of Goodrich (also 1 frame). Its a hard shot, but the force is smoothed out a bit over three frames.

 

[death_by_teeps]

Look at how bad the axe kick is by comparison. Here is a still of the single frame where head is displaced by same distance but in 1/3 the time (see below image where like 3 inches of the head appears transparent because of the motion):

 

[shortlefthook]

I think it's mainly neurological and psychological and, um, defense


The guys who are better at being aware of where strikes come from see them coming more and are less likely to get KO'd. If you're flinchy or just less aware, you get hit by the one you didn't see coming...

for sure seeing a shot coming and being defensively aware plays a huge factor.

 

[Zorrox]

Interesting theory. They always say the punch you don't see coming hurts the most and this seem to back that up.

 

[ClosetVitorFan]

Its not just jaw. Its also neck muscles too... But yes there are jaw muscles. When Overeem was on horsemeat he could actually take a heavyweight punch. He had a huge neck, huge traps and yes your jaw muscles will also get stronger on horse meat. Post horse meat he cant even take a jab from Stipe without running away. Im surprised Hunt didnt land anything significant but Hunt is super done. No more speed and accuracy in his strikes. There is less pop to them.

 

[Armored Saint]

chin talk.

 

[Emjay]

In before "shoulder girdle"

 

[dieknowsore]

it is mental and physical.

no mattered how strong your kneck muscles and jaw are, if you get hit by a solid punch blindsided that you don't see coming and are not "ready" to take it, you are probably going to be knocked out.

like getting punched in the stomach when you aren't ready for it.

 

[NoContest]

Good find. I wish that guy would fix my jaw. Nothing too bad with it, just tilts to the left in a weird way when I open my mouth as wide as I can.

 

[The Moloko man]

I've always had a little obsession with slowing down video footage, seeing how far someones head is displaced in one frame, to get an idea of how hard someone was hit (using F=MA). In my judgement, the people who get knocked out simply have their heads move quickly (accelerate hard), and guys who are known for having "iron jaws", their heads don't move as much when they take a hit. Seems like the guys who supposedly have iron jaws are not getting their heads accelerated sharply. Mark Hunt, when he was ko'd by manholf, he didn't see punch and Hunt's head snapped real quickly. Seems to me everybody is about the same, some guys just can just sense when the strike is about to land and tense their neck appropriately. Similar to guys who always see low kicks coming and check well, they just react better to it defensively.

Ive never seen any footage, not ever, where a really severe punch or kick that snaps a dudes head does not go down. Like this axe kick KO I saw on youtube today, look at how bad this guys head accelerates. Is there anybody who would not be knocked out from such a jolt? Doubtful. There is nobody who could take such a jolt as here and stay conscious:

Yea,Pretty much this......
That neck snaps and the brain sloshes around and hit the other side of the skull making it nighty night.
Of course its a neurological issue for some.
They get hit in the temple or tagged right on the button(chin) and they're done

Probably one of the few times i seen a fighters neck snap back from a punch he didnt see coming and not get KO'd, was black beast vs big country.....That was crazy!
Of course he was rocked somewhat as he went straight to the clinch to regain his bearings

 

[The Moloko man]

There been alotta bro science in boxing on this subject forever.
I remember reading an old rocky marciano Interview where they asked him the secret to his chin(he was knocked down twice in his career iirc, and both times were due more to poor footing than being rocked....this was especially impressive considering marciano wss for all intents and purposes a "brawler" who often took 2 or 3 shot just to land one of his own)
Anyway he said the secret was he always kept his chin tucked very tightly and that he didnt really believe in the iron jaw thing.
He went on to say that the only time he was really rocked/hurt was in his fight againt joe walcott(champ at the time)
When between rounds he got evergreen in his eyes from it being in his waterbucket(ala liston/ali)
So for a round there he couldnt see the punches coming meaning he didnt know when to clinch up or tuck his chin better, leaving him exposed to taking a flush shot from walcott and making him go right into the clinch to recover.

........On the other hand you have a guy like the "Raging Bull" Jake Lamotta who after being physically examined by doctors had it verified that not only were his jaw muscles thicker, but his skull itself was abnormally denser.

This was a man who fought with little to no head movement or defensive finesse.
He was a stalker who cut the ring off while eating punches and pushing foward as the aggressor.
Lamotta went his career( over twenty years) without being traditionally ko'd( not counting tko)
And the few times he was knocked down, it was in the light heavy weight division and not middleweight.
Today the guy is 95, getting married for the seventh time and he doesnt have CTE.
So maybe some people are just built better/ more well suited to take a punch

 

[NoContest]

I've always had a little obsession with slowing down video footage, seeing how far someones head is displaced in one frame, to get an idea of how hard someone was hit (using F=MA). In my judgement, the people who get knocked out simply have their heads move quickly

I've been thinking about this since watching this thread. It really changed my idea of what a fighter's chin is. Because sometimes those guys who are known to have legendary chins do get rocked, wobbled and so on. And sometimes you see a fighter get rocked or KO'd in one fight, then go on to absorb really nasty shots without any problems. Thanks for the info, I'll keep an eye on the speed of the head when it gets hit.