The hypocrisy in saying that DJ needs to move up weight to be GOAT.

AngryManlet

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This is one of my biggest pet peeves that even long term fans say as if this is a remotely intelligent thought.

Demetrious Johnson is a 5'3 natural 125lber. And you're saying he's not eligible for GOATness unless he moves up to fight guys who completely out-weigh him. While I give credit to Silva for moving up weight, lets get some facts straight.

DJ has fought at Bantamweight for a long time, a weight class which was unnatural to him. This would be like GSP fighting at Middleweight his whole career, if you wanted to paint the picture fair. Mind you, DJ was competitve at this unnatural weight class and could arguably be a top 3 today.

So before you say the line, think to yourself that it is only fair if you also say that in order to be GOAT.

GSP must have beat Anderson Silva (MW goat like Cruz is BW)
Jon Jones -must- beat Cain (Jones actually outsizes most opponents)
Cain -must- beat a super heavyweight.
and so forth.

Thanks.
 
isnt there some hypocrisy about short people bitching about regular people bitching about short fighters?
 
This is one of my biggest pet peeves that even long term fans say as if this is a remotely intelligent thought.

Demetrious Johnson is a 5'3 natural 125lber. And you're saying he's not eligible for GOATness unless he moves up to fight guys who completely out-weigh him. While I give credit to Silva for moving up weight, lets get some facts straight.

DJ has fought at Bantamweight for a long time, a weight class which was unnatural to him. This would be like GSP fighting at Middleweight his whole career, if you wanted to paint the picture fair. Mind you, DJ was competitve at this unnatural weight class and could arguably be a top 3 today.

So before you say the line, think to yourself that it is only fair if you also say that in order to be GOAT.

GSP must have beat Anderson Silva (MW goat like Cruz is BW)
Jon Jones -must- beat Cain (Jones actually outsizes most opponents)
Cain -must- beat a super heavyweight.
and so forth.

Thanks.
DJ is a small FLW, he could probably make men's SW if the division existed in UFC and he cut as much as others. Yeah it's kind of crazy to demand that of him.
 
Conclusion - Demetrious Johnson is a small man..

Screen-Shot-2016-08-27-at-9.24.29-PM.png
 
DJ is a small FLW, he could probably make men's SW if the division existed in UFC and he cut as much as others. Yeah it's kind of crazy to demand that of him.

I agree with that. It's one of the reasons I give him so much credit. People like to argue that DJ is fighting small men, but he's a smaller man in a small man's division. There are very few dominant fighters who are considered small for their division.

The only ones I'd argue are maybe GSP, Fedor, Hughes and possibly Aldo (although he's more average than anything). And while hughes and gsp were small in height they made up in weight. DJ is not only small in range but also in pure size, yet he dominates each contender.
 
I get the size difference but there are no more challenges left at FW. To cement his legacy DJ will have to take some fights at BW. Not even to face the champion but to challenge himself against the 5-15 range to start. Like Anderson was doing.

I think DJ woulda beat Faber of the last two years. That kind of victory would of been a big fight and cemented a better legacy.
 
I've never heard anyone say MM needs to move up to be considered GOAT.

Just that he needs to move up if he wants even a slight chance of having any significant fan interest in his fights.

(But it's true he's never going to be in GOAT contention with wins at 125. The horse jockey division just isn't deep enough. He could beat the next 10 reality show winners in a row and it wouldn't mean diddly, legacy-wise.)
 
Honestly bro, unless DJ moves up in weight and takes the 135 lbs title, he can NEVER be GOAT. Certainly never surpass what Anderson, GSP, Jon Jones, and Fedor was able to do.
 
I agree with that. It's one of the reasons I give him so much credit. People like to argue that DJ is fighting small men, but he's a smaller man in a small man's division. There are very few dominant fighters who are considered small for their division.

The only ones I'd argue are maybe GSP, Fedor, Hughes and possibly Aldo (although he's more average than anything). And while hughes and gsp were small in height they made up in weight. DJ is not only small in range but also in pure size, yet he dominates each contender.
Aldo was huge as shit lmao
 
I've never heard anyone say MM needs to move up to be considered GOAT.

Just that he needs to move up if he wants even a slight chance of having any significant fan interest in his fights.

(But it's true he's never going to be in GOAT contention with wins at 125. The horse jockey division just isn't deep enough. He could beat the next 10 reality show winners in a row and it wouldn't mean diddly, legacy-wise.)


If a fighter in the HW division had the dominance that DJ had, people would scream GOAT. They contend that it is because the high risk of KO that it is hard to be dominant, but everyone works in a skill vacuum. If you fight in a KO risky division the dominant fighters are good at not being Ko'd. If you fight in a division of less KOs but high skill the dominant fighter also does likewise. Yet they are treated completly different.
 
If a fighter in the HW division had the dominance that DJ had, people would scream GOAT. They contend that it is because the high risk of KO that it is hard to be dominant, but everyone works in a skill vacuum. If you fight in a KO risky division the dominant fighters are good at not being Ko'd. If you fight in a division of less KOs but high skill the dominant fighter also does likewise. Yet they are treated completly different.

I think if you look at the fighters usually included in the legitimate GOAT discussion you will see that they have beaten guys who created legitimate legacies in their own right.

MM's top three wins are:
- Decision over washed up Yamamoto
- (gifted) Decision over washed up Torres
- Split decision over Benavidez + KO win

It's not MM's fault his division is puddle deep. But it's also an unavoidable fact.
 
op youre missing the point about why he needs to move up. literally every person hes fought at flyweight is a no name. its like if gsp spent his entire career beating thiago alves or jason miller or some guy that belongs on the prelims.
 
This is one of my biggest pet peeves that even long term fans say as if this is a remotely intelligent thought.

Demetrious Johnson is a 5'3 natural 125lber. And you're saying he's not eligible for GOATness unless he moves up to fight guys who completely out-weigh him. While I give credit to Silva for moving up weight, lets get some facts straight.

DJ has fought at Bantamweight for a long time, a weight class which was unnatural to him. This would be like GSP fighting at Middleweight his whole career, if you wanted to paint the picture fair. Mind you, DJ was competitve at this unnatural weight class and could arguably be a top 3 today.

So before you say the line, think to yourself that it is only fair if you also say that in order to be GOAT.

GSP must have beat Anderson Silva (MW goat like Cruz is BW)
Jon Jones -must- beat Cain (Jones actually outsizes most opponents)
Cain -must- beat a super heavyweight.
and so forth.

Thanks.

I think you mistake people's meaning.
DJ cleaned the top of his division some time ago.
That means that from that time up until now, he is not fighting anyone worthy of his P4P status, hence demeaning his accomplishments.
Kind of how Silva would be viewed if he didn't move up (people always claimed he was in a weak division).

Personally, I don't think that way, and I do have DJ as one of the GOATs, those top guys that are the absolute best, that accomplished the absolute best in my eyes.

But your example also have mistakes.
For Fedor fought guys much heavier than him.
So did Cain (When he beat Lesnar for instance).
Claiming a HW that is not that big would have to fight some SHW (which there are none) is just plain wrong.
Besides, Frankie fought and won LW belt, and he was way too small for LW.

So I don't see it as much of an unbelievable accomplishment to beat someone from a WC above.
Yeah, it is nice to be able to do that, but IMO the one that had balls were BJ Penn fighting Machida, or Wandi fighting CroCop. THOSE (in my eyes) were indeed amazing feats. But going up one WC? IMO it is not such a big a deal as people claim them to be.
 
Well his last lost was at bantam... went down to feather which people argue that it is a weaker division.I dont think its hypocritical....
 
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