Is judo really suboptimal for MMA or are there just more wrestlers?

BigMuffler

Loli is love loli is life!
@Steel
Joined
Mar 24, 2012
Messages
27,170
Reaction score
9
It seems a fairly common belief that judo is inferior to wrestling as an MMA base but is it necessarily accurate or does the much greater number of high level wrestlers that enter MMA compared to high level judokas just make it seem that way? We've seen some accomplished MMA wrestlers get thrown around by judokas - Shields by Lombard and Tate by Ronda, and Fedor took a good part of his grappling game from judo. Of course wrestling would have some advantages like more focus on shot takedowns, but is judo truly as inferior as some claim or might it see greater success if more top judokas started coming over?
 
its not accurate really. judo is really good. not only do they have good trips and throws but they usually have a better grasp of the submission game as well.
 
I think the uniform plays a big part in it. If all top level judokas were doing it no gi i think it would be an easier transition into mma but thats not the case. Wrestlers are trained to grab for the body not clothes so it adapts instantly to mma.
 
Judo today is extremely watered down and ill suited for MMA. I remember IJF banning techniques below the belt several years ago. If you're going to rely on nagewaza in a mostly upright position you're going to get tagged very badly.

Their submission game is more developed than in wrestling, but they aren't true submission masters because they have such limited time on the ground and are therefore unable to work any intricate submissions into their newaza game, at least not at a very high level. They are like, more explosive but far more limited BJJ players - which can work very very well, as we've seen in Ronda's case, but the limited TD varieties is still a huge problem, and had Ronda being going against better competition I believe her limited ground game would also be exposed.
 
Maybe if someone made a career of making of converting Judo from a Gi sport to a no-Gi sport it could be more applicable, but 90% of Judo throws are reliant of grips.
 
Judo today is extremely watered down and ill suited for MMA. I remember IJF banning techniques below the belt several years ago. If you're going to rely on nagewaza in a mostly upright position you're going to get tagged very badly.

Yup. The ideal Judo stance is standing up as straight and tall as you possibly can. Awful for any version of actual fighting
 
Doesn't transfer as well in the clinch as greco does. The gi is more paramount. Even training without the Gi, the setups you learn in wrestling are more applicable in MMA.

Not to say it doesn't have merit -- you can surprise the hell out of someone with Judo.

I also don't think it translates in to bjj better. A solid wrestler, with bjj training and no gi Is a fucking nightmare
 
Maybe if someone made a career of making of converting Judo from a Gi sport to a no-Gi sport it could be more applicable, but 90% of Judo throws are reliant of grips.

it would just basically turn into greco roman wouldn't it?
 
I think a peripheral aspect of it is that wrestlers are used to long, brutal practices from early on and develop a certain work ethic and tolerance for unpleasantness that helps with mma training
 
yeah probably. and then if applied to MMA it would turn into what we have today.

to be honest, i'd rather MMA fighters just wear the sambo type gi as default and allow them to wear bjj / judo type gi if they choose (modified ones that don't constantly open). its much more realistic as people wear clothes in 99% of situations.
 
to be honest, i'd rather MMA fighters just wear the sambo type gi as default and allow them to wear bjj / judo type gi if they choose (modified ones that don't constantly open). its much more realistic as people wear clothes in 99% of situations.

I'd be so down for a Gi league of MMA. it opens up a LOT of techniques. It would end up looking very different. More subs, more ground fighting. It would be fun.
 
I remember judo banning some leg takedowns a few years ago because freestyle wrestlers used to enter judo tournaments and beat them.
So if they were beaten by wrestlers even under their own rules, I think that says it all.
 
1. Olympic style judo is not made for fighting. To much emphasis on sport and not actually combat/fighting/self defense.

2. A judoka with a serious ne waza game is an extremely dangerous opponent. Top game is heavy enough to control most BJJ guys and they are still good enough with subs to pull off a sub from the bottom with a wrestler on top of them.

Examples see Fedor, Mousasi, Karo, hell even Khabib uses a lot of judo when he fights
 
Judo is simply the little brother of wrestling around the world, just like wrestling is the little brother of NFL in America in many respects. In other words, the best HW wrestling prospects in America don't wrestle--they play in the NFL. Likewise around the world, you wrestle if you have great grappling ability, not do Judo. Judo has a smaller pool of lesser athletes is the bottom line.
 
I'd be so down for a Gi league of MMA. it opens up a LOT of techniques. It would end up looking very different. More subs, more ground fighting. It would be fun.
I've always thought that if BJJ guys could wear their Gi's and use it as a weapon (like shamrock vs Gracie 1) then wrestlers should be able to wear wrestling shoes and still be able to kick people in the face.
 
I guess it´s about the number of practicioners as you said. But it seems to work just fine if you know how to use.
tumblr_mnvfpgOnaH1qaa8d1o1_500.gif
Lyoto-Machida-vs-Gegard-Mousasi-Kosoto-Gake.gif
tumblr_n4bmo6BZOV1qa9yvvo2_400.gif

frank-mir-harai-goshi-roy-nelson-judo-ufc-130.gif

UFC175-RondaRouseyXAlexisDavis-3-400-sg.gif

tumblr_m623dcn6j61ry1rm7o1_500.gif
 
I think the lack of Judoka in MMA has more to do with how Judoka and their organizations view MMA.

They dont take too kindly to how brutal the sport can be.
 
Judo without a gi is basically wrestling with slightly different rules and scoring. Wrestling is more specific for the octagon. Judo is pretty good for "street fighting/self defense"
 
It's not useless but it takes longer to cross over.

An Olympic wrestler might be UFC ready two years whereas an Olympic Cali team Judoka might take three or four in men's MMA.

Most of it tends to be more spectacular and less workman like/reliable than wrestling.
 
Back
Top