A REALISTIC BREAKDOWN OF CHAEL

leatherneck

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1. yes, i get it. its long.
go read a short Conor thread if words intimidate you.

2. For years Ive seen posters misunderstand Chael, typically exaggerating certain strengths or weaknesses to arrive at either opposite end of bias.

Having closely followed MMA and Chael for years, and with mutual friends from competition, I'd like to offer a 3rd point of view:

1. POINT: CHAEL WAS/IS A GREAT FIGHTER
A top MW for many years, IN 2 DIFFERENT FIGHTS he was 30 seconds away from a win and a belt that would have him properly remembered as 1 of the best.
EXAMPLES:
- beat Anderson every minute of every round in both fights before losing, many of them legitimate 10-8s.
- beat Bisping, Stann and Shogun when all were top contenders
- if he would have lasted another 20 seconds vs Jones, he would have won the LHW title.

COUNTERPOINT: Chael has always sucked, simply been benefiting from right/time and place, friendship with Dana, and mostly talking his way in to fights he didnt deserve.
EXAMPLES:
- seems to have lost every title fight or important fight that mattered
- even "normal"" fights with Rashad and recently Tito had subpar results

REALITY:

I think Chael would beat Anderson 7-8/10 times, but it doesnt mean he was better, nor do i think at that time he was the best- i think he is an example "OVERPERFORMING", rather than a "choker".
While I think it IS fair to say that Anderson escaped likely defeat from Chael 2X (im a huge Anderson fan, but he wanted NOTHING to do with either fight, ESPECIALLY the rematch) I also think it is fair to say Anderson in many ways is the perfect matchup for Chael.
Ever since the early UFCs, a 1-dimensional fighter whose base was wrestling STILL HAD A FANTASTIC CHANCE TO WIN ANY FIGHT, PROVIDED THEY HAD AT LEAST 1 OF (2) QUALITIES:
- good submission defense
- power in their hands
If they were weak in ju-jitsu but could avoid a sub (Couture, for example), or if they were poor in standup technique and fundamentals, but had decent power (Kerr, for example) a wrestler was always in the fight.
To be blunt, Chael was a bit of an exception, in that he had NEITHER- he was always vulnerable to a sub, and was never known for knockout power.
The truth was, Chael only had a few things going for him, and IMHO it wasnt that he choked, it was that he got these strengths to carry him much farther than he really ever should have gotten in the first place:
- 1 of the best double legs in MMA, ever
- great cardio
- great toughness, mental warfare

Now i can already imagine how some of the responses here will read (among the few literate enough to read more than a @heemann photo thread with an @ArmBarbarian meme reply) but hear this out:

If you dont think Chael had ANY respectable talent, how did he get where he did, and stay there for so long?
it wasnt just "mike skills" keeping him in ring with Silva for 24 min when Hendo, Belfortand many others could not)
It wasnt his offensive or defensive BJJ, or his fearsome standup.
It was his wrestling and relentless cardio, and his toughness.
Before you go posting memes, keep in mind HE NEVER ONCE APPEARED HURT BEFORE A FIGHT WAS OVER.

2. POINT: Chael is exceptionally articulate, with original material and unmatched wit.
EXAMPLES:
- Chael effectively "reinvented" self-promotion in MMA, and many of his sound bytes ("Nogueira and The Bus", "West-Linn Gangster") are the most entertaining lines in all of MMA.
- Chael paved the way for others, by both demonstarting AND EXPLAINING a fighter must be able to fight, but also command attention- speaking Englsh, being charming, getting a laugh, or calling out another fighter-werent just "good ideas", but necessary to succeed, in the UFC in particular.

COUNTERPOINT: Chael is a "a parrot", with no actual ability to speak extemporaneously, all of his lines were either ripped directly from Pro Wrestling promos from the 80s, or written for him by some "hired comedian" or speech writer.

REALITY:
I will start conceding 2 points:
1. I think at times he memorized certain lines- so what?
- Platinum Mike admitted he's "planned for years" to say what e does, without any criticism for rehearsal.
- If Chael practiced, IT DOESNT MEAN THE MATERIAL WAS SOMEONE ELSE'S.
2. in sports today, nearly ALL "smack talk" can seem copied or directly ripped off- there just isnt much new ground- even Ali, in his generation, was often criticized for being unoriginal in his verbal insults (those which wouldnt be considered blatantly racist today)

On occasion Ive seen him say something that sounded like ThunderLips in '89- not shocking considering he's an admitted pro-wrestling fan since childhood.

"Chael's best lines were written by a comedian" is the 2nd biggest repeated myth on Sherdog since "MMA has evolved so much in the last 5-8 yrs", etc- i havent seen a shred of evidence of it.

Take his 5-10 most memorable quotes, then find a source where he "stole" it from.
- Where did he steal the "Nog with a carrot and a bus" line?
- Who inspired the "Okami's mom" story?
What comedian ever claimed to write Chaels material, when did Chael say it happended, or when has anyone but Sherdog posters once given a reason to think this?

Just listem to him speak live- he never seems at a loss for words. he's won political election, done live commentating, records a popular podcast, and "fooled" ESPN into giving him an analyst's job- ALL WHILE BEING A SHITTY FIGHTER?

Im bewildered some are so jaded they cant admit the guy can talk.

IF THERE IS 1 THING THE GUY CAN DO, IT IS TALK.

3. POINT: Chael's PED hsirtory was limited- a 1-time thing that doesnt tarnish his MMA record.

COUNTERPOINT: Chael's failed tests, and the results in particular, show his whole career was based on PEDs.

REALITY: While there is no way to know, i think the truth is in the middle, and in general his responses to the failed tests and his current PED observations are both top-notch.

After successful college wrestling AND olympic wrestling, to say he is a career juicer is unlikely ( i wouldnt care if he was)

As already stated, he got very close to a belt, in reality i think it was farther than his skill, talent and genetic lottery should have allowed- especially after the 2nd Anderson fight he realized- "i dont have quite what it takes", so knowing most are on PEDs, and with nothing to lose, im gonna give it a go" - NOT ONLY HAS CHAEL HIMSELF SAID NEARLY EXACTLY THIS, I REMEMEBR WELL THINKING "I DONT KNOW IF HE WAS CLEAN BEFORE,BUT I SEE HE ISNT NOW"...

His weight went up, body began to change- he started flexing all the time,and talking about the "biggest arm in West Linn"- stuff he was never known for prior.

im sure many of you are going to disagree, but if so, back it up with examples or sources.

i MAINLY WROTE ALL OF THIS TO SAY:

HOW THE FUCK DID HE LOSE TO TITO? SO LAME, CHAEL.
 
1. yes, i get it. its long.
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@Sgt Smith @deviake @Dr Hannibal Lecter
 
Chael will arguably go down as a top 5 all time middleweight/lhw. I don't care what anyone says
 
Chael = done. He peaked between his first and second Silva fights.

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I think you make a few good points.
 
Failure is always an option - Chael Sonnen
 
His best ever performance was against an injured Anderson Silva. Chael still lost and failed his drug test after the fight..... For TS to claim that Chael would beat Silva 8 times out of 10 when he is 0-2 against him is ridiculous.

He's not mentally strong enough to be a great.
 
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REALITY:

I think Chael would beat Anderson 7-8/10 times, but it doesnt mean he was better, nor do i think at that time he was the best- i think he is an example "OVERPERFORMING", rather than a "choker".

Its a shame, they fought only 2 times out of your 10.
 
Chael was on TRT for the Silva fight and tested positive for a having his testosterone ratio too high. He's been on gear for a long while which is the only reason he got as far as he did in the UFC.
 
Holy shit it looks like a screenplay on my phone.
 
Since I don't mind reading I can say I read all of that and it was absolute GARBAGE. Well not quite garbage but not exactly great and since you said you know mutual people, I have to believe there was some bias in there.

You said Chael had toughness, I couldn't disagree with you more here. He may have cardio/endurance but someone that isn't able to win a single fight where he had to face any type of adversity isn't someone that I could call tough. He's a performer that's great when he's a frontrunner but the moment the tides turns on him he instantly folds and loses the fight usually choking (literally) and occasionally by TKO.

You said Chael was twice 30 seconds away from becoming a win that would have had him remembered as one of the best? What??? He was 30 seconds away from beating Anderson in the first fight....HOWEVER that win would have been overturned to a NC as Chael tested positive for this fight with a 16:9 T:E ratio. What would have happened would have been chael cementing his legacy in disgrace as he would have been stripped of the title and branded a cheater that cheated to win the title.

Now let's review the Jones fight...Chael was thoroughly dominated and made to look like a 9 year old child wrestling with his father. Jones took Chael down at will, dominating Chael at his own game, the only damage to Jones in that fight was damage he did to himself going for a takedown and dislocating his toe in the process. Had Chael survived the round and Jones been unable to continue he would have replaced Vitor as being the flukiest champ in UFC history....at least Vitor actually threw the punch that caused the cut to Randy's eyelid that forced the stoppage. Chael did absolutely nothing in that fight.

Now, my final problem with your assessment is this.

3. POINT: Chael's PED hsirtory was limited- a 1-time thing that doesnt tarnish his MMA record.

COUNTERPOINT: Chael's failed tests, and the results in particular, show his whole career was based on PEDs.

REALITY: While there is no way to know, i think the truth is in the middle, and in general his responses to the failed tests and his current PED observations are both top-notch.

After successful college wrestling AND olympic wrestling, to say he is a career juicer is unlikely ( i wouldnt care if he was)
False his PED history wasn't a 1-time thing or even close to being a 1-time thing. He was initially busted for PED usage in the first fight against Anderson Silva. He obviously lied under oath to the CSAC by 1) saying that he had spoken to Keith Kizer (NSAC commissioner at the time) and he told Sonnen that it was ok for him to use TRT and he wouldn't need to fill out additional paperwork. Secondly he lied again by using the excuse that the reason he needed TRT was that he never went through puberty. (Yes, a 6' athlete that competed in the Olympics never went through puberty) From that point through the rest of his UFC career Sonnen was allowed the usage of TRT, TRT was revoked before Sonnen's scheduled fight against Wanderlei Silva.

Before Sonnen fought Silva they were both randomly tested, Wanderlei refused to take the test, and Sonnen took his test but he failed it for two substances which are used in PCT. Sonnen went on the radio with Jay Mohr, and then later of FS1 accompanied by Dana White to say those drugs were a necessity for anyone coming off of Testosterone treatment. (which is true) He also said that he was taking those drugs in order to conceive a child with his wife, said he had no idea how to contact the NSAC. (This despite the contact info for the NSAC being right on their website as well as the TUE applications for the substances Sonnen was taking.)

Wanderlei fight was cancelled when Wand dodged the drug testers but in the meantime the UFC booked Sonnen in a match against Vitor for that card. Vitor passed his drug test, Sonnen however failed his. This time the substances Sonnen failed for included HGH, and EPO which there were no excuses he could give for having them other than wanting to cheat. Sonnen only actually gave a plausible explantion for his PED usage after the 3rd time he was caught abusing the system.


As to why he had success, he's a good wrestler with not much else going for him except a size advantage over his MW opposition and the fact that MW was a weak division. If LW was as weak as MW, Gleison Tibau wouldn't have been a gatekeeper but instead a top 5 fighter in the same way that Sonnen was. He's overrated and didn't achieve any success in MMA worth noting till he started using steroids and other performance enhancers.
 
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