How true is the stereotype of tall lanky fighters having weak TDD?

[BigMuffler]

It seems a pretty popular notion that tall, lanky fighters tend to more vulnerable to TDs which is supported by examples such as the Diaz brothers, Condit, Struve, Volkov, and Anderson to some extent (although I don't think his TDD is really that bad, but it seems to be considered his main weakness). However there are also examples of tall lean fighters who have quite strong TDD like Jones, Gustaffson, Rockhold, Holm, and Cruz. What is the main difference between the first group and the second, is it just strength relative to opponents? Most of the second group seems more muscular or in Gus' case not really muscular but he is strong (can deadlift 550 lbs IIRC). Better wrestling? How good a predictor of TDD is body type really?

 

[SNEAKthief]

I'd roll with the wrestling background playing a huge role. Also, the guys listed seem to be comfortable off their backs.

 

[Sexy Jesus]

Jon Jones destroys that theory every time he fights a wrestler. See DC fight

 

[MikeMcMann]

It seems a pretty popular notion that tall, lanky fighters tend to more vulnerable to TDs which is supported by examples such as the Diaz brothers, Condit, Struve, Volkov, and Anderson to some extent (although I don't think his TDD is really that bad, but it seems to be considered his main weakness). However there are also examples of tall lean fighters who have quite strong TDD like Jones, Gustaffson, Rockhold, Holm, and Cruz. What is the main difference between the first group and the second, is it just strength relative to opponents? Most of the second group seems more muscular or in Gus' case not really muscular but he is strong (can deadlift 550 lbs IIRC). Better wrestling? How good a predictor of TDD is body type really?

The key to your first sentence is 'tend'.

Yes the tendency is there that if you have a more squat grappling based fighter who has great td's that he will 'typically' be able to bully and use his lower centre of gravity and 'generally' greater strength to bully the lanky fighter. Particularly if the lanky fighter is also flat footed or has poor movement.

Where that 'tends' to change is when the lanky fighter has great movement and reflexes (Cruz) and in Jones case also great defensive wrestling and an uncanny use of leverage.

Jones has basically the complete package for a lanky fighter and most lanky fighters lack in one or more of those areas.

 

[BigMuffler]

I'd roll with the wrestling background playing a huge role. Also, the guys listed seem to be comfortable off their backs.

Well Gus, Holm and for another example of a lanky type fighter with good TDD Travis Browne don't have wrestling backgrounds, but yeah the guys who are reputed to 'fall over in a stiff breeze' tend to be happy working off their backs instead of determined not to be on the bottom.

 

[Imalive]

That is not a stereotype .

 

[mudrubble]

I think the prejudice is ridiculous. The bigotry that tall, lanky fighters have had to deal with historically in this country (and many others besides) is just shameful.

If I hear one more fighter being called out at the gym as "tallee" or "lankman" or even the reprehensible "thinface" I'm gonna stop going.

I won't support MMA if my tall, lanky fighting brothers are being called "thinface" and neither should you.

But yeah, their TDD sucks. After I take 'em down I say "I didn't do this because you're a thinface"

Then I touch 'em up with the jab, basically.

 

[M Raid K]

They have disproportionally long arms -> can underhook easily (Struve's reach is proportional, in case you wonder)

 

[MikeMcMann]

Further that is why it is so retarded that so many on this site suggest being overly tall and lanky is some type of unfair advantage that does not require skill to utilize.

the history of our sport to date simply does not back that up and in fact the opposite has been true. Being tall and lanky is something to over come and requires extraordinary skill to do so.

Most of the champions of our sport have not been tall and lanky. They have been more in the norm when it comes to build. No one thought 'oh Fedor is dead' when he fought Semmy Schilt. Almost everyone thought Fedor would have a feast on those limbs. Most give Fedor credit for his skill and if being lanky was all that mattered Schilt wins, but Schilt would also need immense MMA skills and other skills to overcome and shut down Fedor's skills.

 

[mudrubble]

Tall, lanky fighters of the world, UNITE!!

This ends NOW!!!

 

[Zomax]

Jon Jones destroys that theory every time he fights a wrestler. See DC fight

John Jones was a National Junior College Wresting Champion.

 

[VinceArch]

Jon Jones destroys that theory every time he fights a wrestler. See DC fight

He's the only fighter with an 84.5 reach advantage so that's why he gets away with not being taken down.

 

[BRASIL WAND]

Are we referring to full on Lanklets or just taller guys in general?



Personal Analysis on Takedowns:


I wrestle and for me it's usually easier to TD taller guys than shorter guys.

Probably the low center of gravity perhaps. Or the lankier limbs to grab ahold of e.g. Singles, doubles, arm drags, etc.


Throws, snap downs, and sweeps tend to work more for me on shorter guys though.

 

[Andre Xiong]

all those fighters have no wrestling background so that's a huge factor that throws this off

 

[SKITZADACTYL]

usually the tall lanky guys don't have a wrestling backround.

 

[BoobsAndBeer]

Not very true man I am sorry to say.

 

[TheIrishPsycho]

Sure its true whatever. More post count for me.

Tall, lanky fighters of the world, UNITE!!

This ends NOW!!!

Tall Lives Matter.

 

[reveler]

it seems like lanky fighters are generally more willing to fight off their back, so the need to avoid the takedown isnt as strong.

its true though that styles make fights, and that body types contribute to styles.

 

[xGRIMREAPERx]

You might be on to something but a fighter is always going to utilize there size in anyway. Short stocky wrestling, Tall thin distance

 

[Threetrees]

It has to do with fighting tall, not being tall.

Jones is a great wrestler and tall as fuck, but he doesn't fight tall in the pocket - he adjusts his hip hinge in the pocket and changes his stance

Donald Cerrone fights tall from the outside, but develpoed great TDD because if he's in clinch or wrestling range he crouches and lowres his stance. He used to fight tall the pocket, body straight up and legs close together (relatively) and Varner exposed him and plowed through his defense

Any tall wrestler knows to not fight tall in clinch or wrestling range.

Strikers that fight tall and dont change their stance and adapt are going to have bad TDD because they're fighting stupidly and haven't learned MMA.
Watch the hips of any dude that has good TDD tall or short, wrestling background or no, then watch the hips of any fighter with bad TDD and look for how much they fight tall in the pocket