Well, it has been a long time since I've made a thread here in the Heavies as I just lurk most of the time now but decided to make a post since I have the time and it's something I want to assess and watch as well.
CM Punk. Yea, I said it, this is about CM Punk. For the sake of transparency, I am a pro wrestling fan, have been since 1990 and also an MMA fan since 1994. I will spend a little time talking about CM Punk's athletic ability and this is not meant as an anti-pro wrestling or anti-CM Punk thread but just an honest conversation about CM Punk as I don't believe in trashing anyone who is willing to do what CM Punk is doing.
It's true, to be a great pro wrestler in most cases, you need a certain level of athleticism. On the indy scene, or what is the equivalent to MMA's amateur scene, the more athletic you are, the "better" promoters and fans seem to think you are as well. At the upper echelon of pro wrestling though, in the WWE (and in the old NWA/WCW), the big name pro wrestlers were not necessarily the most athletically gifted but most have decent hand eye coordination and at least above average athletic ability. The A level athletes in pro wrestling never seem to make it to the top though, they are the exceptions. The Hulk Hogans, Ric Flairs, Rock's, Steve Austin's, etc are average in terms of athletic ability. Then you have guys like the Bret Harts, Shawn Michaels, Kurt Angles, Macho Mans who were around 5"10-6 that were pretty athletic. Generally speaking, smaller guys tend to be more athletic. In the indy/amateur scene, CM Punk was not known for his athleticism but his understanding of ring psychology and his skills on the microphone and that was the reason he was able to get to the big leagues and flourish even after being held back by the WWE upper management.
CM Punk, though, falls on the smaller side in the pro wrestling world, right in the realm of the Harts, Michaels, Angles, and Randy Savages but to be honest, CM Punk's athletic ability is not anywhere near the level of those guys. Honestly, he's not even on the level of the big guys like the Hogan's.
The reason I am stating all of this, and I am a huge fan of CM Punk's pro wrestling work, is that I often hear other people state he's a good athlete or has to be a decent athlete since he was a pro wrestler. Even his training partners have stated he is a good athlete but that is far from the truth. As a guy who followed CM Punk's entire career (from 2001-2014), I can honestly say he is the least athletic guy I have seen in the wrestling world, especially at his weight and height, who has had a career in the WWE for more than 2-3 years.
I know some may be wondering, what does this have to do with Tim Sylvia? I just wanted to get the " he must be an athlete" out of the way first and for those who are longtime UFC fans, they probably get my drift already.
Tim Sylvia is as unathletic as an "athletic" can be. The guy started at MFS and couldn't even jump rope, was extremely clumsy (still is), and couldn't throw a punch to save his life although his swim punches had alot of power if he landed them flush. If took him nearly 6 months before he could jump rope for a minute without tripping. He's slow, a prodder, heavy feet, moves awkward, and is just plain clumsy. CM Punk is Tim Sylvia in a nutshell except at 170lbs. CM Punk was never athletic and will never be athletic. He has heavy feet, prods around like he's 280lbs even though he was around 215/220 when he was a pro wrestler, and just plain clumsy. Anyone who watched pro wrestling could tell CM Punk was not very athletic. When he performed certain moves that required average to above average athleticism, the moves just weren't aesthetically pleasing and looked nothing like that of an athlete.
Now some may think that since I am comparing Punk to Sylvia, that means I believe he'll be a champ one day....NOOOOO. If Tim Sylvia kept his athletic abilities and somehow shrunk into a 190lb WW, he wouldn't make it into the UFC and that's what I'm saying about CM Punk. Even with the Sylvia comparisons, Sylvia had something that couldn't be taught and that was knockout power in his hands. In the HW division, and especially during Sylvia's time, he proved he could get away with subpar athletic abilities because he had the weight and height advantages on basically all of his opponents not to mention very heavy hands. CM Punk does not have that luxury at 170lbs.
I'm sure there are some thinking, especially MMA fans who don't watch pro wrestling, "then how did Punk make it to the top of the WWE?"
The only reason CM Punk made it in to the big leagues in the WWE is because he was obsessed with wrestling, worked harder than just about anyone, made the most of his extremely limited athletic abilities and really mastered the two most important factors in pro wrestling; ring psychology and mic skills. Without going into much detail, his ring psychology was top notch and he was very masterful on the microphone, had quick wits and a sharp tongue. That's what made him a champion and a star in the pro wrestling world.
All he has to rely on is his non-existent athleticism and his mental fortitude but I don't believe that will be enough for CM Punk as he is actually worse than Tim Sylvia since he lacks the natural power in his hands. IWhile I do think it is absolutely admirable and even somewhat inspirational for Punk to try his hand at MMA, to put all his eggs in one basket, risk his body and pride in front of the world to see (something most of us would never do), I believe it will all be for naught. Unfortunately for Punk, in the MMA/UFC world, the ring psychology and mic skills will not save him. predict he does not get out of the first round and will get submitted by Gall under 5 mins.
I will leave you guys with two videos, although anyone who has seen his recent workout videos already knows he is not athletic and does not look like a fighter at all.
Here is CM Punk 4 years into his pro wrestling career, already a "star" on the indy/amateur pro wrestling circuit. Look at his athleticism
And here is the classic Punk Muay Thai video
CM Punk. Yea, I said it, this is about CM Punk. For the sake of transparency, I am a pro wrestling fan, have been since 1990 and also an MMA fan since 1994. I will spend a little time talking about CM Punk's athletic ability and this is not meant as an anti-pro wrestling or anti-CM Punk thread but just an honest conversation about CM Punk as I don't believe in trashing anyone who is willing to do what CM Punk is doing.
It's true, to be a great pro wrestler in most cases, you need a certain level of athleticism. On the indy scene, or what is the equivalent to MMA's amateur scene, the more athletic you are, the "better" promoters and fans seem to think you are as well. At the upper echelon of pro wrestling though, in the WWE (and in the old NWA/WCW), the big name pro wrestlers were not necessarily the most athletically gifted but most have decent hand eye coordination and at least above average athletic ability. The A level athletes in pro wrestling never seem to make it to the top though, they are the exceptions. The Hulk Hogans, Ric Flairs, Rock's, Steve Austin's, etc are average in terms of athletic ability. Then you have guys like the Bret Harts, Shawn Michaels, Kurt Angles, Macho Mans who were around 5"10-6 that were pretty athletic. Generally speaking, smaller guys tend to be more athletic. In the indy/amateur scene, CM Punk was not known for his athleticism but his understanding of ring psychology and his skills on the microphone and that was the reason he was able to get to the big leagues and flourish even after being held back by the WWE upper management.
CM Punk, though, falls on the smaller side in the pro wrestling world, right in the realm of the Harts, Michaels, Angles, and Randy Savages but to be honest, CM Punk's athletic ability is not anywhere near the level of those guys. Honestly, he's not even on the level of the big guys like the Hogan's.
The reason I am stating all of this, and I am a huge fan of CM Punk's pro wrestling work, is that I often hear other people state he's a good athlete or has to be a decent athlete since he was a pro wrestler. Even his training partners have stated he is a good athlete but that is far from the truth. As a guy who followed CM Punk's entire career (from 2001-2014), I can honestly say he is the least athletic guy I have seen in the wrestling world, especially at his weight and height, who has had a career in the WWE for more than 2-3 years.
I know some may be wondering, what does this have to do with Tim Sylvia? I just wanted to get the " he must be an athlete" out of the way first and for those who are longtime UFC fans, they probably get my drift already.
Tim Sylvia is as unathletic as an "athletic" can be. The guy started at MFS and couldn't even jump rope, was extremely clumsy (still is), and couldn't throw a punch to save his life although his swim punches had alot of power if he landed them flush. If took him nearly 6 months before he could jump rope for a minute without tripping. He's slow, a prodder, heavy feet, moves awkward, and is just plain clumsy. CM Punk is Tim Sylvia in a nutshell except at 170lbs. CM Punk was never athletic and will never be athletic. He has heavy feet, prods around like he's 280lbs even though he was around 215/220 when he was a pro wrestler, and just plain clumsy. Anyone who watched pro wrestling could tell CM Punk was not very athletic. When he performed certain moves that required average to above average athleticism, the moves just weren't aesthetically pleasing and looked nothing like that of an athlete.
Now some may think that since I am comparing Punk to Sylvia, that means I believe he'll be a champ one day....NOOOOO. If Tim Sylvia kept his athletic abilities and somehow shrunk into a 190lb WW, he wouldn't make it into the UFC and that's what I'm saying about CM Punk. Even with the Sylvia comparisons, Sylvia had something that couldn't be taught and that was knockout power in his hands. In the HW division, and especially during Sylvia's time, he proved he could get away with subpar athletic abilities because he had the weight and height advantages on basically all of his opponents not to mention very heavy hands. CM Punk does not have that luxury at 170lbs.
I'm sure there are some thinking, especially MMA fans who don't watch pro wrestling, "then how did Punk make it to the top of the WWE?"
The only reason CM Punk made it in to the big leagues in the WWE is because he was obsessed with wrestling, worked harder than just about anyone, made the most of his extremely limited athletic abilities and really mastered the two most important factors in pro wrestling; ring psychology and mic skills. Without going into much detail, his ring psychology was top notch and he was very masterful on the microphone, had quick wits and a sharp tongue. That's what made him a champion and a star in the pro wrestling world.
All he has to rely on is his non-existent athleticism and his mental fortitude but I don't believe that will be enough for CM Punk as he is actually worse than Tim Sylvia since he lacks the natural power in his hands. IWhile I do think it is absolutely admirable and even somewhat inspirational for Punk to try his hand at MMA, to put all his eggs in one basket, risk his body and pride in front of the world to see (something most of us would never do), I believe it will all be for naught. Unfortunately for Punk, in the MMA/UFC world, the ring psychology and mic skills will not save him. predict he does not get out of the first round and will get submitted by Gall under 5 mins.
I will leave you guys with two videos, although anyone who has seen his recent workout videos already knows he is not athletic and does not look like a fighter at all.
Here is CM Punk 4 years into his pro wrestling career, already a "star" on the indy/amateur pro wrestling circuit. Look at his athleticism
And here is the classic Punk Muay Thai video
